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Situation in Middle East, Afghanistan
Topic Started: Nov 19 2014, 12:35 PM (259 Views)
Degen83
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Narendra Modi
Prime Minister
Republic of India

Recently we have received many reports of the dire situation in the Middle east, with ISIS making progress, Lebanese and Israeli tensions rising, ISAF withdrawals from Afghanistan leaving the Taliban in control of much of the territory that has been abandoned by coalition fighters ... the Middle East appears to be a powerkeg ripe for explosion.

It is my belief that we need to come together and adopt a unified front to prevent furthr destabilization in the Middle East.
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Jos1311
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Posted Image سامح شكري | Sameh Shoukry
Minister of Foreign Affairs of the Arab Republic of Egypt

Mr. Aziz,

The Islamic Republic of Pakistan might not feel admonishing, of what it views as, the lack of efficacy showed by the Afghani government in combating the Taliban and other factions. However actions taken by your own government have further deteriorated the situation in Afghanistan, a fact which many renowned experts and military analysts agree upon. That Pakistan has chosen to negotiate with terrorist elements is their choice, and they are fully entitled to do so, however Cairo does not believe this to be a wise decision. At the same time this decision has created sufficient problems for the Afghan government to deal with as well, while we have received little information that Pakistan will assist the Afghan government to deal with new challenges posed by these actions. It goes without saying that I do not have a complete insight on the bilateral talks between Afghan and Pakistani officials, however the fact that we have not heard anything specific in the moths that have passed seem to indicate that. In the past year the assistance to Afghanistan has been significantly declined, and we have seen little to no efforts from the international community to respond to the growing challenges that the Afghan government had been faced with.

I refute your claim that the Afghan government has no desire to engage terrorism, and I frankly find that conclusion an outright insult to the large numbers of security personnel that have died in the past year. I also would like to note that I contest your conclusion that the militants in the Pakistani FATA region are "their militants," with a reference to Afghanistan. In my eyes this clearly highlights the major obstacles that have to be overcome to combat this grave global threat, and serves as a clear indication of what I already said that priorities need to be aligned.

That being said I again believe that we should seek solutions, and ensure that we, as international community, can better address this threat. For this I believe it is vital that the international community, and especially the respective regions, play a vital part in the plans to eradicate the problem. While I have no perfect solution to achieve this goal, I do firmly believe that the character of this debate will need to be more constructive and focused upon finding the solution.

While I also would like to add that it goes without saying that Egypt is more than willing to play its part in this undertaking, and that I believe that cooperation among members of the international community will be the key to achieve these goals.
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P.M. Nawaz Sharif
Sartaj Aziz - Acting Foreign Minister
Islamic Republic of Pakistan

The statements of Mr. Shoukry are, more than anything else, offensive to the state of Pakistan and show a lack of information troubling for any foreign officer of a sovereign government. He is quick to point out that a large number of Afghani security forces have died "fighting" the Taliban, but makes no mention of the 4,651 Pakistanis killed in the war against terror last year alone. He is quick to mention that our government signed the South Waziristan accords with a number of domestic factions once aligned with the Tehrik-e-Taliban movement of Pakistan, yet argues that, despite the successes experienced by Operation Zarb e Azb against the Afghani Taliban, Haqqani network, and other Afghan insurgent groups, that our efforts at splintering the extremist movement and securing peace accords with regional Pashtun tribes have somehow led to the deterioration of the conflict in Afghanistan, despite the disarmament of the PTT Punjab and the Mehsud and Wazir tribes of the FATA. The Egyptian delegation of course makes no mention of support provided by the Afghani intelligence apparatus to these factions, and the country's continued sanctuary of Maulana Fazlullah in the Nuristan region.

The Afghan government has rebuffed several attempts to sever these ties and hand over Fazlullah, but they have shown no interest in doing do or in cooperating with Pakistan, or any other power, in combating the terrorist threat. Our government has heard no diplomatic overture, nor call for help coming from Kabul, and President Ghani has proved to offer no substantial divergence from his predecessor in functionally ignoring the deterioration of the country.

Afghanistan cannot be helped if it's government has no desire to do so. Pakistan has repeatedly called upon the United States and other ISAF powers to pressure Afghanistan into cooperation on regional anti-terrorism efforts, but we have been met with silence as the world focuses myopically on the Islamic State. It would seem on one hand that Egypt would have Pakistan eschew all negotiation with militant factions to bring together the country and help bring an end to violence, but would have us fight that struggle entirely alone while a room of diplomats discuss the issue but provide no material aid to our struggle.
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Jos1311
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Posted Image سامح شكري | Sameh Shoukry
Minister of Foreign Affairs of the Arab Republic of Egypt

Mr. Aziz,

What you are doing is totally taking my statement out of its context. With all due respect I have not mentioned the numerous deaths that Pakistan had to mourn in the fight against terrorism, nor have I mentioned the Pakistani effort to fight terrorism, as such was not a subject in the discussion, and therefore not necessary to mention in my eyes. My words never were aimed to undermine or discredit the Pakistani efforts, and it goes without saying that Cairo has an enormous respect for the sacrifice made by the Pakistani military, security forces, and public in their fight against terrorism. I however do not believe that we should close our eyes for the effects caused by agreements such as the South Waziristan accords, while Cairo fully understands the decision of Pakistan to bring peace and stability to its territory, fact remains, as confirmed by various military officials, that it has created various safe havens in the FATA region, which terrorist elements utilize to strike into Afghanistan.

With this in mind, and the fact that Afghanistan has been left with far too little international assistance, I feel it is unjust and unrealistic to solely blame the Afghan government for the current situation. On various occasions the Afghan government has called for assistance and these calls were not answered, not by Pakistan, Egypt, or any other member of the international community. So we, the international community, are as responsible for the current situation in Afghanistan, as the Afghan government is. However the focus should not be on who is responsible, but how we can turn this around.

I therefor ask you to calm down before making rash statements, as these are absolutely not contributing to the case. As said Egypt is willing to assist Pakistan where it can, and I ask you to inform Cairo how it can assist. At the same time I however emphasize that regional partners should definitely be cooperating more on the matter, and I ask Pakistan to inform what it seeks from the international community to assist it.
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P.M. Nawaz Sharif
Sartaj Aziz - Acting Foreign Minister
Islamic Republic of Pakistan

Mr. Shoukry,

Through one side of your mouth, you state that questioning the resolve of the Afghan government is inappropriate due to the casualties Afghanistan has sustained combating the Taliban and other armed militant groups, yet through the other you admonish the Pakistani state for pursuing peace accords with moderate groups despite the greivous losses our country has suffered fighting the West's war on terrorism. While I understand, as we all do, that you merely sought to employ a rhetorical device to make your point, doing so in such a fashion was wildly inappropriate, and on behalf of the government of Pakistan I accept your apology for your unintentional insult towards the thousands of Pakistani martyrs who have given their lives against the terrorism scourge.

Back to the discussion at hand, however, while I do not disagree that international detatchment from Afghanistan has been appropriate, it is difficult to lay the entire blame on the feet of the United States, United Kingdom, and other ISAF powers, as well as the international community writ large, given the obstinate of the Afghan government, both under former President Karzai and the current administration, to commit to a wholesale campaign against terrorism within its borders as well as to political reforms necessary to better include marginalized elements of Afghan society. Although Cairo might seek to chastise those who pursue agreements such as the South Waziristan accords, Pakistan feels that pursuit of peace agreements with domestically-oriented, relatively moderate insurgent factions, combined with comprehensive deradicalization programmes and thorough military action against strident, extremist groups is the way forward and the best method of securing a lasting peace in the region.

To those ends, the Afghan government must be willing to commit to such reforms, building such programs, and fighting such a protracted campaign, rather than focusing on defending the interest of Northern Afghanistan elite at the expense of the south of the country. It must work not only to secure itself from internal insurgents, but also the rampant corruption which prevents the government from being seen as legitimate anywhere in the country outside of Kabul. And it must work to build the institutions of governance so that all Afghan citizens are subject to the same, impartial law. This is not a struggle unique to Afghanistan, but it is one that the Afghan government has shown no will to undertake.

Despite countless sources of tension between our two governments, Pakistan remains ready to assist the Afghan government in securing its border and combating cross-border insurgency networks in a much more comprehensive fashion, but we cannot accomplish this unless Kabul decides to act. Should it come to that decision, Pakistan has no doubt that it will find many friends in Islamabad, Washington, Berlin, Paris, London, Beijing, Moscow, Cairo, and elsewhere who stand ready to provide assistance.
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Jos1311
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Posted Image سامح شكري | Sameh Shoukry
Minister of Foreign Affairs of the Arab Republic of Egypt

Mr. Aziz,

Could you elaborate what you are try to achieve at these talks? For I am getting somewhat concerned about the manner in which you are posturing yourself, you continue to take my statements and place them out of context, followed by placing words in my mouth that I have not said. At the same time I am getting the feeling that you favor placing blame for the situation in Afghanistan solely with others, and that you appear to be unwilling to accept that your own actions have had a key role in the process as well, a fact that is being supported and underlined by many. I do hope that I am wrong, and that the idea behind your words is more constructive than their tone.

I had already asked you to inform the international community, and Cairo, how to assist you in the undertaking, and how you believe the international community, especially the region itself, should step up to assist the Pakistani and Afghan governments. I will therefore ask you again how do you think this assistance will need to take shape? And how do you plan to cooperate with the Afghan forces to secure the combined border and combating cross-border insurgency networks that operate on both sides of the border?

At the same time I call upon the Afghan government to announce what it believes it needs from the international community to ensure that it can better deal with the rising insurgency in the country.
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P.M. Nawaz Sharif
Sartaj Aziz - Acting Foreign Minister
Islamic Republic of Pakistan

Mr. Shoukry, for someone so concerned with the content of my speech, you seem to have missed important elements of it, which I must now deign to repeat. If the international community wishes to provide assistance against the Taliban and other terrorist factions, they must exert diplomatic pressure on the Afghan government to meaningfully engage the Taliban in combat, pursue domestic reforms to increase inclusiveness among marginalized Pashtun communities in the countries south, and work to decrease the rampant corruption which has come to define the Afghan state. As Pakistan has been wholly unable to secure a cooperative Afghanistan in almost a decade of relations since the fall of the Taliban-led government and the assent of Northern Alliance leadership, it is imperative that powers that retain close ties with Afghanistan, such as the United States, engage with Kabul and pressure them towards such a course of action.

Cairo might focus on it's own insurgency problems in the Sinai and elsewhere - lest Egypt once again begin to export radicals such as Sheik Abdel-Rahman and Ayman Zawahiri once more. With the rise of Islamic State militantism in the Sinai, Cairo will play a key role in the fight against the Islamic State, despite earlier efforts to remain neutral at the beginning of the conflict. While Pakistan appreciates Cairo's zeal in offering assistance against international terror networks, we feel it best that they focus their efforts on eliminating insurgency and militantism in their own country.
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Jos1311
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Posted Image سامح شكري | Sameh Shoukry
Minister of Foreign Affairs of the Arab Republic of Egypt

Mr. Aziz,

Let me express my disappointment about the manner in which you have replied to me on several occasions now, there has absolutely been no need for such an undertone, and I kindly request that you adopt a more diplomatic approach to this discussion. I have understood your content clearly, however as you yourself have pointed out the issue related to militants operating in Afghanistan is a cross-border issue, meaning that perhaps assistance can be provided to not only Afghanistan, but Pakistan as well. Apparently your calls are however aimed to attract support for Afghanistan. I would again like to reiterate that Afghanistan has called for foreign assistance on several occasions before, however that these calls were without result. I however hope that this time other members of the international community will hear your plea for assistance to Afghanistan, and will provide the requested assistance. I therefore again reiterate my calls to the Afghan government to clearly inform the representatives present here with the assistance Kabul deems necessary to combat the militants operating in Afghanistan, and the cross-border regions.
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P.M. Nawaz Sharif
Sartaj Aziz - Acting Foreign Minister
Islamic Republic of Pakistan

The primary impediment to the success of Pakistani anti terrorism efforts remains a lack of cooperation from Afghanistan. Any assistance towards securing a more cooperative Afghan government is a move in the right direction, and will improve the situation in Pakistan as well as Afghanistan. Of course, aid in domestic projects, assistance crafting governance reforms, and economic investment are all things that indirectly can assist Afghanistan, Pakistan, and the rest of the Muslim world in it's struggle against radical terrorism, however, the success of such is dependent on a serious effort against these ideologies by Muslim governments and the international community.

Pakistan would like to see Afghanistan commit to securing its border against narcotics, weapons, and militant trafficking; cooperation regarding the extradition of terrorists between Afghanistan and Pakistan; and commitment to pursuing domestic reforms aimed at increasing representation and government legitimacy in Pashtun-majority areas of Afghanistan. To those ends, Pakistan is willing to provide any military support Afghanistan requires in its antiterrorism efforts including, if necessary, the cross-border deployment of Pakistani troops to provide assistance to the Afghan government in security operations. Islamabad is also willing to work alongside Kabul in crafting domestic reforms aimed at redressing the various grievances present in Pashtun-majority regions of Afghanistan and Pakistan, and will also gladly lobby the international community, in Afghanistan's behalf, for any support which we cannot render should it commit to further cooperation.
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Jos1311
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I need one of the other mods to role-play Afghanistan in this debate.
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iceviking
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Ashraf Ghani

President of Afghanistan


We are still in the process of transition from ISAF to our forces. We still assistance in certain areas. We will put our forces to good use against Taliban forces. We will try our best to direct forces towards the Pakistan border. We see the border is very porous with arms and soldiers freely crossing the border. We can assure our Pakistani friend we will be carrying out missions to drive out rebels and also to close the border.

We still have some elements of corruption and also elements of sleeper cells within our midst. We are trying our best, but the floodgates have opened and we are losing this battle. We still require international help in fighting the Taliban.
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