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Eastern European Deterioriation
Topic Started: Jul 5 2015, 10:37 PM (564 Views)
Litos
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Itō Hirobumi
Frank-Walter Steinmeier
Foreign Minister

Germany condemns the attack on European economies by the Russian govnermnet in imposing its new measures which restrict free trade, movements, and the proprieties of European citizens within Russia, with a destabilizing effect on the worldwide economy, bound to create a further collapse in commodity prices from which Russia will be a primary loser in the economic situation.

We call for all parties and major economic powers to discuss restructuring vis a vis a resolution to the debt crisis n Ukraine and the recent Eastern European tensions which threaten the balance of currency and trade and will no doubt combine with previous events such as the worldwide rush to militarization to produce high inflation levels and economic catastrophe.

We suggest an immediate ratification fo accords giving de facto autonomy to the separatists, unthinkable in the past, but necessary due to the sovereign default of Ukraine, and an aid package spearheaded by the EU and thus-far-languishing IMF to prevent a collapse of the Ukrainian financial system, with a corresponding normalization of Russo-EU relations and joint bond buying packages to signify good will.
Edited by Litos, Jul 6 2015, 12:18 AM.
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Rezim
His Majesty King Carol I
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Colin Luther Powell
Secretary of State for the United States of America

Given that the recent changes to Russian policies violate various regulations of the World Trade Organization, the United States will be challenging the laws in the chambers of the WTO. Furthermore, we do not believe the Ukrainian government will be willing to immediately surrender to Russian-backed separatists only to allow for Russia to become a creditor of Ukrainian debt. Of course, we cannot speak on behalf of Ukraine's government, but we feel like this is something that is simply not agreeable to a number of parties involved in this matter.
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Eryk
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СССР
Posted Image - Pavlo Klimkin
Міністр закордонних справ України | Minister of Foreign Affairs

The Ukrainian people are, to put it mildly, wholesomely uninterested in having an aggressor nation play any part in the economic future of our country. We are similarly uninterested in any notion of surrender to the Russian Federation in the Donbass though we do intend on maintaining the current ceasefire as it stands to ensure the security of our people. Moscow stands in the way of any realistic peace arrangement. Until certain pertinent issues are addressed, such as the thousands uniformed Russian soldiers actively participating in an invasion and occupation of Ukrainian territory, the problem will remain as-is.

There was always and will always be money set aside to ensure the safety and security of the Ukrainian people. The default itself has not bled the Ukrainian treasury dry; international creditors were bleeding the Ukrainian treasury dry. We will continue to take measures to address the issue, however the Ukrainian financial system has retained its integrity and there are no immediate signs that it will fail in the medium-term. Proper restructuring talks can commence at the request of creditors.
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Degen83
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Sergey Lavrov
Minister of Foreign Affairs
Russian Federation

Mr Steinmeier,

This situation is much more complex than you care to realize. I understand that with recent events this may fall on deaf ears, but I will fully explain the Russian motivation and reasoning for these recent actions in this public place, because Russia does not have anything to hide here.

First, the recent Russian actions. We have long witnessed the European Union, NATO, and USA all brandish their wealth, promises of investment, and capitol as weapons to force through regime change, political changes, or to force through other various changes according to their will on the world stage for decades. While some nations wield a military force to force their will on the world, you use the IMF and investment money and withhold it until nations comply with your demands, your goals, your views on how they should govern themselves.

While Russia cannot compete with the amount of wealth you have, we certaintly can limit your ability to influence us with your economy. You wield your wealth as a weapon, well Russia can wield that weapon too. In the past, Mr Steinmeier, our governments were close. President Putin speaks fluent German. We have been a huge market for German and EU goods, rising to the top few spots in several economic areas. Economic cooperation was growing. But your sanctions came, and our counter sanctions came. You will not force us to bow to your will due to economic sanctions.

You implemented these recent sanctions because of the crisis in Ukraine not having been solved. Russia has tried its best to get a peace in Ukraine, but consistantly it has been the various Ukraine government in Kiev who have shown a complete irresponsible lack of desiring a peace. Ukraine violated the cease fire in December 2016 of its own accord. Poland, an EU and NATO member, deployed troops to Ukraine to help sway them into attacking the separatists again. Later in 2017 we exposed a French operation to deliver weapons to Ukraine in direct violation of an EU arms embargo. Do not claim the EU is innocent in the Ukraine crisis.

The EU has picked a side, Ukraine, then holds Moscow to impossible standards of not having found a peaceful solution with Ukraine while secretively the EU is support Ukraine to have them continue the fight and not seek peace.

The recent Russian sanctions are a direct response to the EU and US's recent sanctions against Russia.

I would rather have the EU, US, and Russia return to a sense of normalcy, of joint cooperation where we can all prosper, but that is not what the EU wants, that is not what the US wants. Russia has a sphere of influence. Russia has goals and plans for ourself, and we will do all we can to further the goals of the Russian people. We will not bow to your money. We will not be cowed into submission by seeing you wave checks in our face. We will not abandon our goals and plans because of EU sanctions.

Now you have a choice, Mr Steinmeier. The EU has a choice. They can either continue this dangerous policy of ignoring Russian concerns and seeking punitive actions against Russia, to which we may very well retaliate in a tit for tat fashion, as you have now witnessed twice now, or you can decide to work with Russia, take our concerns into account, and treat us an equal partners and work with us to achieve a peaceful solution that we can all live with.

Moscow has very little patience with the Ukraine government at this point, having seen betrayal and violations of all of our agreements with them save the most recent cease fire, which appears to be a ploy to give the Ukrainian military a reprieve to restructure their military to conduct further offenses against the separatists. And let us look at the track record of Ukraine. They took billions in aid from the EU, only to squander it on violating the peace with Russia and attacking the separatists. And now you want to reward their lack of foresight by wanting all nations to bail Ukraine out. Where is the Russian bailout, Mr Steinmeier? You reward the Ukranian push for military actions yet punish Russia for not having yet found peace with Ukraine?

What is the next step, Mr Steinmeier? Downgrading Russia's credit rating to make any loans we get from the IMF take us years to pay back? You already did that. Sanction Russia to try to bring us back to the economic collapse of the 1990's? This time Russias economy is more in tune with the global economy, we have more ties with the EU than we did in the 1990's. Crashing the Russian economy will have severe affects on the global economy. The news article reads that Russia is failing to realize that the EU has the most wealth in the world. No, Mr Steinmeier, Russia fully realizes that. But your wealth comes at a cost, complete political allegiance to the EU and USA. And right now the cost of your wealth is for Russia to abandon our own interests in our own backyard and sit back while we watch more Russian aligned nations suffer western sponsored coups, like what we saw in Ukraine, Georgia, and elsewhere, or watch as NATO enroaches upon our borders even further and deploys ABM systems aimed at Russian missiles. The cost os EU wealth is for Russia to abandong the concept of Russian national security. Some say we are trading dependence on the EU for dependency on China. Chinese economic deals come with no strings attached. EU deals do not.

The sooner the EU and US try to work with Russia instead of dictate terms to Russia, the sooner we can come to a solution that will get us all back on track.

Now the EU and USA has a choice. Continued antagonization of RUssia and continued punitive actions against Russia, which will certaintly continue this downward spiral with potential global affects. Or the EU and USA could instead work with Russia, try to find a common ground, and work to descalate tensions. Given the lack of willingness on the EU's part the last time Russia tried this, this time it must be the EU who sends the message that you are interested in descalating tensions.

Ukraine says they are not interested in working with Russia, than they are not interested in working for peace. Continue EU support for Ukraine is further exposing the lies regarding the EU's stance. Russia is not standing in the way of peace in Ukraine, the Kiev government is.
Edited by Degen83, Jul 6 2015, 10:10 AM.
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Eryk
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СССР
Posted Image - Pavlo Klimkin
Міністр закордонних справ України | Minister of Foreign Affairs

The statements of the Russian representative are categorically untrue. The Ukrainian Armed Forces never fired the first shot at the separatist terrorists supported by Moscow and including tens of thousands of uniformed Russian soldiers. The previous Ukrainian government scrapped the Minsk Accords, but remained open to a different solution. It was the terrorists supported by Russia which immediately rearmed and reignited the still ongoing conflict.

Just as you say the West cannot force you to acquiesce to their demands through economic force, we will not acquiesce to your vision of pulling our country apart through military force.

We do not care for your patience nor your friendship. Moscow has shown itself to be solely concerned with its own interests. When the Ukrainian people resoundingly spoke for association with the European Union and not the Russian planned Eurasian Economic Community, you began a military operations to illegally annex the Crimea and then the Donbass. When the latter failed, you sought to strong arm the Ukrainian government into accepting neutrality and guarantees of future Russian non-intervention - a similar declaration was made in 1994 when Ukraine surrendered its nuclear weapons. There is one party here who cannot be trusted, and it most certainly is not Kiev.

Until the Russian government abandons its dream of destroying the Ukrainian state, we will continue to be at an impasse.
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Degen83
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Sergey Lavrov
Minister of Foreign Affairs
Russian Federation

Mr Steinmeier had the beginnings of a deal. So did we, Mr Klimkin, but you started using the cease fire to restructure your military.

While some Ukrainians voted for EU, many Ukranians did not, and your government silenced them, tried to silence their voices, and so they took to the streets and rose up.

Like it or not, Ukranian forces tore up the previous agreement and began deploying to attack the separatists regions. You violated the cease fire, violated the accords, and then you blame Russia for the continued fighting. You have mastered the technique of yelling a lie loud and long enough and others will believe it.

Russia does not stand in the way for peace in Ukraine, we have tried peace with each and every new Ukrainian government. Most have been unwilling. But what is bringing this to a head is the EU punishing Russia for your decision to continue the fight.
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Rezim
His Majesty King Carol I
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Colin Luther Powell
Secretary of State for the United States of America

Mr. Lavrov,

You've expelled a lot of hot air to state what could have been said in a much more direct and not-as-long-winded manner.

The simple fact of the matter is that these new policies put in place by the Russian government is a violation of international regulations according to the World Trade Organization, of which Russia is a member of. The United States will be, and calls upon the support of European Union members calling for an investigation into these policies through the WTO.

If you and the rest of the Russian government wish to see a return to normalcy and reconciliation between Russia and the West, then we will reiterate what has been told of Russia before - stop behaving as an eighteenth-century imperial power. We did not want to isolate Russia - Russian actions have done that. We did not want to see the possibility of a Russian economic collapse - Russian actions have done that. We did not want to place sanctions on Russia - Russian actions have done that. As you can see Mr. Lavrov, it is the actions of your government that has put the Russian Federation in this predicament.

You cannot call the desires and policies of one state to join the European Union an effort by the United States and Europe to isolate Russia. The actions taken were those done in a sovereign nation, separate from the Russian Federation. What occurred after that decision to leave Russia's lap was a Russian invasion of Ukraine. Add to this the possibility of Russian interference into NATO allied Baltic states, namely in the nation of Estonia. Add to this Russian interference into Brazil; add to this Russian deployments to Venezuela, and the subsequent Venezuelan invasion of Brazil - which appeared to have the blessing of the Russian government. No sir, this isn't a matter of the European Union or even the United States stepping into the boundaries of the Russian Federation, but instead that of the Russian Federation overstepping and overestimating what it is capable of.

For nearly five years, this concept that Russia is under constant threat has resulted in Russia alienating some of its allies and the isolation of the Russian state. This is a paranoia that the Russian government has fed its people for centuries; that Russia is under constant threat, and must act in order to defend itself. Mr. Lavrov, the early centuries of the Russian nation are long gone - Russia is not under threat of Mongol, Azar, or Bulgar invasions. The United States and the European Union are not a new Golden Horde hellbent on the destruction of Russia. Russian policy is the Golden Horde that is hellbent on the destruction of Russia.

We have always been prepared to cooperate and work with Russia, but Russia must see that willingness of cooperation as that, and not as a threat against its well-being. Unfortunately, we fear that story of Russian paranoia has in fact developed into Russian policy, which will do no favours. If Russia is serious about reconciliation, it must cease all hostilities with Ukraine to even get an audience for such discussions.

Until such time, we will pursue all legal avenues to challenge the recent Russian laws, and consider new rounds of sanctions if necessary.
Edited by Rezim, Jul 6 2015, 10:42 AM.
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Eryk
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СССР
Degen83
Jul 6 2015, 10:27 AM
Sergey Lavrov
Minister of Foreign Affairs
Russian Federation

Mr Steinmeier had the beginnings of a deal. So did we, Mr Klimkin, but you started using the cease fire to restructure your military.

While some Ukrainians voted for EU, many Ukranians did not, and your government silenced them, tried to silence their voices, and so they took to the streets and rose up.

Like it or not, Ukranian forces tore up the previous agreement and began deploying to attack the separatists regions. You violated the cease fire, violated the accords, and then you blame Russia for the continued fighting. You have mastered the technique of yelling a lie loud and long enough and others will believe it.

Russia does not stand in the way for peace in Ukraine, we have tried peace with each and every new Ukrainian government. Most have been unwilling. But what is bringing this to a head is the EU punishing Russia for your decision to continue the fight.
Posted Image - Pavlo Klimkin
Міністр закордонних справ України | Minister of Foreign Affairs

Again, these statements are completely untrue. Anyone interested in the facts can read them - they were reported by impartial news entities and quite clearly stated that the separatists reignited the conflict without any consideration for further negotiation.

You have exposed your complete disregard for democracy. An overwhelming majority of Ukrainians have expressed their will to join the European Union. In the 2013 Croatian referendum, a third of the Croatian people voted against joining the European Union - does that give them a right to rise up against their government and fuel insurgency, destruction and death with the assistance of a neighboring country? No, there is a rule of law Mr Lavrov, and while Moscow may be prone to disregarding its own laws and international ones which it acquiesces to, that does not invalidate them and their legal standing. The same applies to the situation in Ukraine. The Minsk Accords attempted to impose neutrality and non-association against the wishes of the Ukrainian people. A minority is not entitled to dictate to the majority, yet that is exactly what Moscow believes should happen.

The Russian Federation continues to fuel the insurgency in the East. Ukraine has continued to take measures in kind in order to protect its people. We have continued to express hopes for reconciliation and peace, but if the Russian Federation continues to send tens of thousands of soldiers into the Donbass in order to continue the fight, how can we be expected to do anything but prepare for war? You have brought war upon us, and yet you say it we who must fold and surrender to force. This will not happen.

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Degen83
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Sergey Lavrov
Minister of Foreign Affairs
Russian Federation

Mr Powell,

That is a lot of nonsense.

The reasons for the state of affairs as they are is EU and USA punishing Russia for not having found a peaceful solution to the Ukraine crisis.

We had found one in 2016 but in December 2016 the Kiev government tore it up and violated it, and ever sense we have been unable to get Kiev to agree to a peace.

It is not Russia who you must sanction or turn into a pariah, Mr Powell. If you truly seek to punish those who refuse to work for a peace, you have to look no further than the Ukraine government. Prior to any supposed renewal of Russian assistance to the separatists, we witnessed the Kiev government tear up the peace treaty and attack the separatsts numerous times. We were tryin not to spark tensions, but the Kiev government did not care one bit then, feeling emboldened from direct military support from Poland and fresh arms from France, so they pushed on and were defeated by the separatists who were acting alone.

No matter how you try to spin this, Mr Powell, it is Kiev who rebuked peace, Kiev who attacks the separatists who were not being supplied by Russia at the time, and ever sense then the Kiev government has been kept affloat by the EU and US buying their story and backing them.

Russia has been ready for a peace in the Ukrainian crisis since Kiev tore up the first peace accords in December 2016. I repeat, it is not Russia who is standing in the way of peace. It is Kiev.
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Degen83
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Eryk
Jul 6 2015, 10:52 AM
Posted Image - Pavlo Klimkin
Міністр закордонних справ України | Minister of Foreign Affairs

Again, these statements are completely untrue. Anyone interested in the facts can read them - they were reported by impartial news entities and quite clearly stated that the separatists reignited the conflict without any consideration for further negotiation.

You have exposed your complete disregard for democracy. An overwhelming majority of Ukrainians have expressed their will to join the European Union. In the 2013 Croatian referendum, a third of the Croatian people voted against joining the European Union - does that give them a right to rise up against their government and fuel insurgency, destruction and death with the assistance of a neighboring country? No, there is a rule of law Mr Lavrov, and while Moscow may be prone to disregarding its own laws and international ones which it acquiesces to, that does not invalidate them and their legal standing. The same applies to the situation in Ukraine. The Minsk Accords attempted to impose neutrality and non-association against the wishes of the Ukrainian people. A minority is not entitled to dictate to the majority, yet that is exactly what Moscow believes should happen.

The Russian Federation continues to fuel the insurgency in the East. Ukraine has continued to take measures in kind in order to protect its people. We have continued to express hopes for reconciliation and peace, but if the Russian Federation continues to send tens of thousands of soldiers into the Donbass in order to continue the fight, how can we be expected to do anything but prepare for war? You have brought war upon us, and yet you say it we who must fold and surrender to force. This will not happen.

Sergey Lavrov
Minister of Foreign Affairs
Russian Federation

Mr Klimkin,

The governmentin Kiev tore up the peace accords in December 2016, rearmed, and sent forces to attack Donbass. The separatists rearmed themselves because they are not stupid, anybody could read the intensions of your government was to attack the separatists and try to take them back over. Now, at this time Moscow was fully in compliance with the accords, while Kiev was not. The initial conflicts in 2017 were just the separatists defending themselves against the Ukrainian army which was being backed up by Polish forces and supplied by French weapons.

Later battles in 2017 may have a different story, but the initial battles in 2017 Russia had not provided any assistance to the separatists since before the accords were signed.

You cannot play the victim when it is you who renewed the conflict.
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