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| Eastern European Deterioriation | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jul 5 2015, 10:37 PM (568 Views) | |
| Litos | Jul 5 2015, 10:37 PM Post #1 |
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Itō Hirobumi
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Frank-Walter Steinmeier Foreign Minister Germany condemns the attack on European economies by the Russian govnermnet in imposing its new measures which restrict free trade, movements, and the proprieties of European citizens within Russia, with a destabilizing effect on the worldwide economy, bound to create a further collapse in commodity prices from which Russia will be a primary loser in the economic situation. We call for all parties and major economic powers to discuss restructuring vis a vis a resolution to the debt crisis n Ukraine and the recent Eastern European tensions which threaten the balance of currency and trade and will no doubt combine with previous events such as the worldwide rush to militarization to produce high inflation levels and economic catastrophe. We suggest an immediate ratification fo accords giving de facto autonomy to the separatists, unthinkable in the past, but necessary due to the sovereign default of Ukraine, and an aid package spearheaded by the EU and thus-far-languishing IMF to prevent a collapse of the Ukrainian financial system, with a corresponding normalization of Russo-EU relations and joint bond buying packages to signify good will. Edited by Litos, Jul 6 2015, 12:18 AM.
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| Rezim | Jul 6 2015, 11:22 AM Post #11 |
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His Majesty King Carol I
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![]() Colin Luther Powell Secretary of State for the United States of America And this is why we will not see a legitimate attempt by the Russian government to cooperate with the European Union or United States. Mr. Lavrov has deflected any negative attention put on the Russian Federation towards Ukraine, giving half-truths or outright lies and anecdotal phrases to justify Russia's policies. Instead of responding with substance on Russian policies resulting in a deterioration of Russia by Russia itself, the Minister has instead deflected all issues towards Ukraine. Ukraine is not the issue here however - Russian policy is. Did Ukraine revoke the Minsk Agreement? Yes they did. What is also important to keep in mind however is that the Ukrainian government agreed to peace under duress, and when they revoked the agreement, it was Russian-backed separatists who attacked Ukrainian forces; not Ukrainian military forces attacking Donbass as the Russian Foreign Minister would have one believe. If Russia insists on being a pariah, so be it. The United States will continue to pursue legal avenues for challenging Russian economic policies and pursue sanctions where we see it necessary. Russia knows our conditions for negotiations and reconciliation and if they are actually interested in such negotiations, they will meet our requirements. Otherwise, Minister Lavrov is wasting the time of everyone in these chambers. |
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| Degen83 | Jul 6 2015, 01:05 PM Post #12 |
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Sergey Lavrov Minister of Foreign Affairs Russian Federation Mr Powell, Your statements continue to prove Russia right when we say that the west is using its economic might as a weapon to force regime change , political changes, and enforce its will upon the world. The carrot is economic investment and trade, the stick is the refusal of IMF loans, blocking of financial aid packages, blocking of funds aimed to help the people, and at worse NATO direct military intervention as we saw in Libya and Syria. How many nations has NATO bombed into submission, Mr Powell? Repeating Ukrainian lies does not make them true. When we signed the Minsk Accords we were in full compliance. Ukraine violated the peace accords. Russia was not supporting the separatists at this time and the attacks in early 2017 were not something you could blame Russia for, we had no part in them. The separatists took up arms because Kiev tore up the peace accords and attacked. Blaming the separatists for defending themselves is yet another example of US hypocricy. You even condemned Russian peacekeepers for defending themselves when the Georgian military attacked them in 2008. You call Russia paranoid. We have witnessed NATO tear Kosovo apart from Serbia in violation of the UNSC. We have seen NATO invade Iraq and Afghanistan and put new governments in their place. We have seen NATO attack Libya, bomb Syria, invade Syria, and openly back rebels. We have seen you use your economic arm, the European Union, to block aid, economic deals, and investment to nations whose domestic policies you do not agree with. The EU and the USA have gotten the IMF to lower our credit rating, we have experienced this type of economic warfare before when the US and EU economic war against the Soviet Union ended up toppling that nation. We have experienced many loans with incredibly high interest from the IMF due to our credit rating that was manipulated by the USA and their European alliaes, who became the EU. You speak of Russia's actions, Mr Powell. What of the USA's actions, what of NATO's actions? Condemning Russian actions while your own government has broken nations apart, invaded other nations with false pretenses, launched unilateral attacks on other soveriegn UN recognised states, and even invaded other nations to force through regime change in violation of UNSC resolutions like you did with Libya. What of the color revolutions you sponsored in Central Asia, the Caucus mountains, and eastern Europe? We have a reason to be paranoid of NATO. Now we can go round and round, or we can work to find a solution. I maintain that Kiev is not interested in a solution, and why would they be when the EU bails them out, after they bailed Ukraine out the last time and Kiev squandered that money to fight the separatists instead of abiding by peace. Why do you think the Kiev government will adhere to a peace this time around if you keep bailing them out and protecting them from the consequences of their actions? If you truly desire a return to normalcy here, I propose we work together to find a solution to Ukraine. The EU, USA, Russia, and Ukraine could meet and work together to find a solution, since it is clear Kiev is not interested in working with Moscow for a peace. Continued punishing of Russia for Kiev's refusing peace will be met with Russian responses. I suggest we discuss this before this tit for tat gets out of hand. Edited by Degen83, Jul 6 2015, 01:26 PM.
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| Sadar | Jul 6 2015, 01:41 PM Post #13 |
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Alain Juppe France advocates to descalate the situation between Russia and the EU. However, that must be followed by restarting active trilateral talks on the ukranian conflict that require no party going with the pre-condition of 'Full ukranisation of eastern Ukraine' or 'Independence for East Ukraine'. Both topics are linked, and the success of the latter is the condition to a permanent descalation. So the question is: Is Russia open to talk openly about Ukraine without "Independence for the Eastern regions" being the only condition? France is, and the critical situation requires addressing the matters with accuracy but open mindness too. |
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| Degen83 | Jul 6 2015, 01:58 PM Post #14 |
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Sergey Lavrov Minister of Foreign Affairs Russian Federation Mr Juppe, It has not been a Russian precondition for negotiations for Donbass and the regions controlled by the separatists to be independent. if someone had told you this, they did not understand the Russian position at all. Russia is willing to enter into such talks, on the precondition that the cease fire and arms embargos hold for at least the duration of these talks. We cannot negotiate in good faith if Ukraine is getting rearmed and continuing to attack the separatist regions. Russia will ensure that no Russian weapons find their way to the separatists for this same duration. I think once we have a solid cease fire with both sides not being rearmed, a solid peace can be worked out. Is this agreeable? |
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| Eryk | Jul 6 2015, 04:25 PM Post #15 |
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СССР
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Міністр закордонних справ України | Minister of Foreign Affairs Again the Russian representative is deliberately misleading those present here. It is well documented that after the Verkhovna Rada refused to fully implement the Minsk Accords separatists elements immediately began to rearm and attacked Ukrainian servicemen near the Donetsk Airport. It wasn't until after this event - after the unwarranted attack by the separatists - that the Ukrainian military was redeployed East in order to prevent the airport from falling. The Russian admission that they did in fact assist the separatists and invade Ukraine, while appreciated, still doesn't ameliorate the situation. Russia continues to occupy sovereign Ukrainian territory without cause. I don't understand how you can sit here, Mr Lavrov, and complain that NATO "tore Kosovo" from Serbia when your government unilaterally and illegally annexed the Crimea. How can you sit here and complain that NATO is attempting to use economic force to change Russia's behavior when Russia is blatantly using aggression and war to force its will upon Ukraine and its people. Do you realize just how phony and ridiculous you sound? Is this the new Russian diplomacy? Pretending that the European Union will forget what Russia has done in Ukraine, Georgia, and so many other countries, accept Moscow's skewed criticism, lay down, and accept Russian dominance? No matter how long-winded your rants, the truth will prevail over the untruth. Russia is no victim. |
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| Degen83 | Jul 6 2015, 05:24 PM Post #16 |
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Sergey Lavrov Minister of Foreign Affairs Russian Federation Mr Klimkin, Georgia attacked Russian peace keepers in South Ossettia in August 2008. This is widely accepted as fact. Georgia started that conflict, Russia finished it. By refusing to work with Russia and the EU and the USA, you send the very public message, the same one you sent to Moscow by your actions, of your unwillingness to achieve and adhere to a peace in this crisis. Right now it is Kiev, it is your government, Mr Klimkin, that is stalling peace talks now. |
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| Eryk | Jul 6 2015, 05:41 PM Post #17 |
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СССР
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Міністр закордонних справ України | Minister of Foreign Affairs We are not Georgia. All the evidence of all impartial sources indicate as I previously stated: after the Verkhovna Rada refused to implement the Minsk Agreement, the separatists, under Russian direction and with Russian assistance, reassembled and attacked Donetsk Airport, reigniting the conflict. Its entertaining to see your u-turns; "Georgia started that conflict, Russia finished it." Of course, the same logic cannot apply to Ukraine, because that would be against Russian interests, never mind the humanitarian cost of the Russian invasion in both cases. We are prepared to enter talks, but with no preconditions. If Russia continues to insist that Ukraine is a defeated country, that we must surrender to their soldiers in the Donbass, and that we must claim responsibility for a war started by their proxies and their own soldiers, then we will not enter such talks. We will not negotiate with lies as the foundation of any peace agreement. |
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| Degen83 | Jul 6 2015, 05:44 PM Post #18 |
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Sergey Lavrov Minister of Foreign Affairs Russian Federation Mr Klimkin, I am insisting on the cease fire being maintained during these talks and an arms embargo on Ukraine and the separatists for these talks. Anything less and I will have to assume this is just another Ukraine ploy to get an advantage over the separatists before continuing attacks. |
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| Longhorn | Jul 6 2015, 05:45 PM Post #19 |
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Timo Soini Minister of Foreign Affairs for Finland Shut up you foolish enemy of peace. We in Finland have seen you invade Ukaine taking over Crimea and claiming it as yours and now we see you waging economic war against the European Union and trying to crash the Finnish economy so you can invade us yet again. When you get bored of Ukraine you will try to turn your armies towards Finland, perhaps try to annex Lapland as a territory of Russia. But unlike Ukraine we will resist and we will make your life an utter failure so much so that President Putin will have no choice but to fire you on the spot for misrepresenting the Russian Federation so poorly. Here is what you are going to do Mr Lavrov if you know what is good for you. You are going to end the economic war against the European Union and you are going to turn your troops around and leave Ukraine. I fear for the safety of your country if you do not stop these tactics. Even Finland can play the annex your neighbor game and even Finland can play the economic warfare game. Do not push the European Union any farther or you will find yourself with another NATO nation on your borders and when you roll your tanks towards us in protest we will turn them into ice just as we did during World War 2. Return to policies of normal times and end your war games, tell Mr Putin that time is running out before Finland takes matters into its own hands to protect its proud people. And yes even Finnish speakers have rights, we will not hesitate to protect Finnish speakers within the Russian Federation if you continue to get out of hand Mr Lavrov. |
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| Degen83 | Jul 6 2015, 05:52 PM Post #20 |
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Sergey Lavrov Minister of Foreign Affairs Russian Federation Mr Soini, You will adopt a tone fitting a diplomatic official or you will be subsequently ignored as a pouty child would be in these halls. Edited by Degen83, Jul 6 2015, 05:52 PM.
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12:44 AM Jul 11
