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| Immortal Mathhammer: Gauss Blasters vs Tesla Carbines | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Feb 5 2014, 04:00 PM (1,859 Views) | |
| Secundum | Feb 5 2014, 04:00 PM Post #1 |
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Phaeron
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Hi Guys Great forum you hav here, been a lot of fun reading it the last couple of days :) So I'm about to assemble all of my Immortals and decided to do the mathhammer on what is the better weapons, since it's pretty impossible to do the pros and cons 'in your head' with them being so closely related. As this is a pretty hotly discussed topic I thought I'd post the results. Apologies to anyone who dislikes mathhammer! Feel free to skip the sheet and go to the conclusions. Spreadsheet is here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AiEZVcuAv9CDdEtld1dwUTVRWFVrMjJtMHZpdUpTNUE It is based on the total number of wounds caused by 10 Immortals firing. Spreadsheet Commentary Against anything with a save that Gauss cannot penetrate (this includes 2+ and 3+ saves and all cover), Gauss is always better in 12" Rapid Fire range, and Tesla is always better at ranges above 12". The number of hits for Tesla falls almost exactly between the difference in Gauss's number of hits at 12 and 24". Against anything with a 4+ save, Gauss is outright better at all ranges. Against models with a 5+ save, Tesla has a tiny (under 1%) advantage past 12" but Gauss does almost double the wounds up to 12". Against models with a 6+ save, Tesla has a reasonable advantage (around 10% more wounds) past 12", but Gauss has a very large advantage (around 60%) within 12". Against vehicles of AV10/11, the damage profiles are the same as for non-penetrated armour above; tesla wins above 12", Gauss wins below 12", with the same difference margins. Against AV12 or above, Tesla cannot deal any damage whilst Gauss can still glance. To me it's quite cut and dried; against non-penetrated armour, Gauss and Tesla are roughly equal, and the choice of which to use will depend on what range you want to try to use them at. However, the fact that all types of penetrable armour save are at best equal for both weapons at 24" but often in Gauss' favour, and always in Gauss' favour at 12", shows clear superiority to the Gauss weapons. The fact that Gauss can hurt all armour further cements its superiority. Snap Fire Snapfire is a special case because Tesla is so good at it (and isnt on the sheet, so youll have to take my word for it!). All of these calculations assume your target charges from 12" or less (which is almost every charge in 6th barring the +1 range Warlord trait as far as I'm aware). If your target charges from farther than 12" away, Tesla is always better regardless of any other factor. Against all non-penetrative armour, including AV10/11 vehicles, Tesla is superior. Against 4+ saves, Gauss is superior. Against 5+ saves, both weapons are equal. Against 6+ saves, Tesla is superior. Overall Tesla comes up top here because most saves in the game are generally 3+ or 5+, although of course against some armies Gauss will sometimes be superior. That said, a unit of 10 models in snapfire causes between 0-3 wounds on average in snap fire, with marines for example taking 1.1 snapfire wound from 10 Tesla and 0.78 snapfire wounds from Gauss. So, these numbers are such small differences - and snapfiring occurs so much less often than normal shooting - that the fact that Tesla is a better overwatch/anti flier weapon (bearing in mind also that Tesla can't actually damage AV12 fliers) is a very minor factor in the overall performance of the weapon. Conclusions Generally, Tesla is at best similar to Gauss depending on range. However, in many cases, Gauss clearly overtakes Tesla and Tesla very rarely overtakes Gauss. If you know what army you're fighting against and are very confident of your plans, tesla can sometimes be a winner - ie, if you know you're fighting vs MEQs and you will always be between 12-24". But given that this situation is unlikely as it would not only require you to be tailoring your army to the opponent, it would also require said opponent to be staying at longer distances, it's tough to see a good reason to take Tesla over Gauss at all. The level to which Gauss outperforms Tesla at 12" is huge and against many common target it actually performs almost identically or even better at 24" also. If you're building Immortals in 6th, and you care about competitiveness of the models - you should be taking Gauss hands down! Original post by: Calmdown |
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| Rutgerman | Jul 17 2014, 01:02 AM Post #2 |
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Warrior
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I find this very true, I agree with everything written down here!! I'd also like to note that maybe this tactica could be expanded by comparing Warriors vs Immortals. They're both troop options and since I'm using 10 immortals in a Night Scythe I've been loving them dearly. They perform SO WELL, that I'm looking down on my warriors, just sitting there, being a 15 man unit all the way in the back, doing nothing. costing many points. Actually if you only look points wise: 13 points gives you a warrior, for +4 points you get a better save (4+ to 3+ is a HUGE difference) and a marginally stronger weapon (Str 5 does ALOT, and AP just gives a nice edge sometimes) I see all these 20 man warrior blobs, okay, but in a 40K allowing larger models, more apocalypse and just stronger things overall I'm feeling that Immortals start to be far more interesting. So maybe a good look into that could really make this a complete tactica :D Love the Tesla vs Gauss comparison tough, it's perfect ;) |
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| Kazephon the Immortal | Jul 17 2014, 01:24 PM Post #3 |
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Immortal
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Rather than have 10 gauss or 10 tesla immortals, why not have 5 of each and have the 5 Tesla Immortals stay at range and have the 5 Gauss Immortals within 12". That would be more tactically imposing than just a 10 man squad of each. |
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| Olfgund | Jul 17 2014, 04:33 PM Post #4 |
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Praetorian
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Points permitting, I sometimes do this too for flexibility, securing more objectives and also shooting at enemy unit with the most efficient gun (immortal tesla go against units with 6+ or 2/3+ saves ; gauss against unit with 4+/5+ saves). But I like to have a tad more than 5 per unit for RP purpose; again, points permitting |
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| Secundum | Jul 18 2014, 03:07 AM Post #5 |
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Phaeron
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5 Man Necron squads are a terrible idea. They easily die in one turn due to focus fire. |
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| Unholyllama | Jul 18 2014, 09:06 PM Post #6 |
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Lord
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Yes and No. 5-man Immortals would be just as resilient as a 5-man tactical marine squad and while there is a moderate amount of AP4+ fire, 3+ saves are still fairly dependable still. Also, with the trend for units to be larger in general, you now have your opponent's 1 larger unit attempting to shoot one of our smaller units. At some point, they reach a point of diminishing returns on the number of shots they are sending to a unit of just 5 models. So minimum squads will always run the risk of giving first blood to your opponent, 3+ saves are decent still (especially with LD10) and your opponent can't split larger units of fire towards multiple different units (usually....split fire is rare in most armies). |
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| C'tan_you_dig_it? | Jul 19 2014, 12:24 AM Post #7 |
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Immortal
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I've seen the math and I just don't care; I love my tesla immortals! |
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| Randy_Chaz | Aug 28 2014, 08:15 AM Post #8 |
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Immortal
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Has this changed at all in 7th with the new cover save rules? Or did cover not really come into the math? I'm just thinking that most 4+ units would try to stick to cover and so pretty much negate the gauss AP, so at 12-24" tesla would still be preferable for additional shots. I mostly end up facing MEQ armies so I generally run tesla anyway. |
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| Unholyllama | Aug 28 2014, 02:23 PM Post #9 |
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Lord
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While there was a lot of changes to cover saves from 6th to 7th, it doesn't really change things here. Open Terrain is gone so no more 6+/4+ (going to ground) cover from there and ruins became easier to identify who gets it and who doesn't. Beyond that, cover is on a model-by-model basis so some models within a unit may not even get cover from the squad. As for cover vs gauss, it happens in which case Tesla will be better at that point. However, with cover being on a model-by-model instance, it only comes into play consistently when shooting through units, targeting a unit in ruins, or targeting a unit behind an aegis/battlements. In all 3 of those cases, there's been no change between 6th and 7th. That said, if a unit stays in cover, then they are static. Most of the missions in the book don't lend well to static armies any more so not a huge issue IMO. For units that aren't static - AP4 is definitely nice since it addresses 50% of the armies on the table (xenos factions). |
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