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Vehicles in 7th edition; How does the new Vehicle Damage Table affect Necrons?
Topic Started: May 21 2014, 02:21 PM (528 Views)
Unholyllama
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Lord
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So while 7th is still 3 days away from being released, the last white dwarf weekly have been stressing that Vehicle Damage Table has been altered to now include a 7+ similar to the building damage table. Not only this but 7+ is the new Explosion result. While no one yet knows what the new 6 is, WDWs have been pretty consistent in saying that you can only 1-shot a vehicle using AP2 or AP1 weaponry (I'll presume Open Top still affects it too but maybe not).

In my opinion, this somewhat hurts Necrons since, currently, most of us tend to focus on the use of Tesla Destructors in order to be our anti-vehicle unless we get a Warscythe within range or the scarabs need a snack. Since Tesla is AP-, this will mean that we have to whittle away hull points now instead of hoping for that explosion. This isn't a huge change but it is something that affects some of our go-to armaments.

So with that out the way - what do you guys think? Do you think we'll need to be running more Heavy Gauss Cannons and Heat Rays or do you think stripping Hull Points more so than we already do will just turn into the new norm?
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Olfgund
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Praetorian
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I would welcome added survivability for vehicles just for the fact that I frequently fight tyranids with MCs that can take 5 meltashots while only one of those shot can melt one of my vehicles!

Even in 6th, the tesla destructor more often than not just stripped away HP without exploding the enemy vehicle. Defensively however, assuming open-top is not changed, the annihilation barge could benefit from… exploding less. So does the other barge and the arks (and stalker).

My weapons of choice against vehicle were of course gauss, scarabs and warscythe but also eldritch lance (cheap, everliving, good range, S8, AP modifier).
I like also the longer-range Heavy Gauss Cannons on the stalker, since the walker is somehow slow and best kept dug-in terrain.

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Unholyllama
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Yea the change to exploding I'm loving with my Dark Eldar and Ork forces. There's still a lot of questions in terms of Open-topped and the likes that are current factors into the damage table that haven't been discovered/discussed. Hopefully there aren't too many changes.

Presuming Open-topped doesn't change (still +1 to the roll), I think that our vehicles won't see too much difference with resiliency since most things that can penetrate AV13 is AP2 or 1 already. I think this will affect close-combat destruction though since the explosion will be more difficult (thus safer all around); however, it also means that emergency disembarkment traps may be more sought after. If you can't do an emergency disembark since you're fully surrounded, then you lose the unit. If this doesn't change, assaulting transports and surrounding them may be better than even now.
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Omar
Flayed One
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the new damage table is as follows
1-3 crew shaken: vehicles only fire snap shots
4 crew stunned: vehicle only firing snap shots and cannot move or pivot, zooming flyers cannot turn and must move 18"
5 weapon destroyed: as normal and if all weapons have run out of ammunition or already destroyed count as immobilized
6 immobilized: chariots count as crew stunned, flyers 1-2 flyer crashes with crash and burn rule. 3+ it counts as crew stunned, an already immobilized vehicle suffering another immobilized result looses another hull point
7+ explodes: D6 radius for a S4 hit on nearby units. vehicle destroyed

crash and burn: large blast and scatters 2d6 for S6 hits

wrecked vehicles are those that loose all of there hull points. becomes scenery.
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Omar
Flayed One
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i think our Catacomb Command Barge just got a lot more survivable.

ignore 1-3 on a 2+
ignore 4 and 6 on a 4+
take 5 then ignore a second 5 on a 4+

although i don't think you can ignore loosing the hull points. (correct me if i'm wrong)
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Olfgund
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Praetorian
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Omar
May 21 2014, 07:19 PM
although i don't think you can ignore loosing the hull points. (correct me if i'm wrong)
Living metal will be a tad more useful now that our vehicles will explode slightly less often
But you're right, it does not negate the lost hull point
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Secundum
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Phaeron
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Ah...the return of rage as our Vehicles knit themselves back together...Now all we need is for Warscythe to go through invuns and we're right back where we started! =)
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Unholyllama
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Omar
May 21 2014, 07:15 PM
5 weapon destroyed: as normal and if all weapons have run out of ammunition or already destroyed count as immobilized
"if all weapons have run out of ammunition" ?
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Olfgund
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Unholyllama
May 21 2014, 08:41 PM
Omar
May 21 2014, 07:15 PM
5 weapon destroyed: as normal and if all weapons have run out of ammunition or already destroyed count as immobilized
"if all weapons have run out of ammunition" ?
Might be refering to things like hunter-seeker missile that a rule-lawyer would try to remove as "weapon destroyed" AFTER it was launched ...
This would confirm your interpretation that the 7th rules are solidly written
Edited by Olfgund, May 22 2014, 03:15 AM.
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Unholyllama
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Very good point and if that's the case - it reinforces the quality of the writing that I've been seeing in other screenshots as well.

I can't wait until I get to go through the book in a couple days.
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deth110
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Lychguard
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Sounds like there won't be necron explosions all across the table anymore
Edited by deth110, May 22 2014, 02:49 PM.
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Unholyllama
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deth110
May 21 2014, 11:47 PM
Sounds light there won't be necron explosions all across the table anymore
I would say that depends on if Open-topped changed or not. If so, no real change for us since you need anti-tank guns already to address our AV13.
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Oberron
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i also hear that jink saves are getting changed to something of the sound of if you move you fire at -2bs but get a 4+ or 3+save. This will make out ghost arks even harder to kill as well as our AAbarges and the -2bs will only help with twin-linking on the tesla
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Secundum
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Phaeron
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No, jink saves are identical, but if you choose to make one you can only fire snap shots in your next shooting phase.
Also, I don't really like the new damage table. Means that Annihilation Barges are no longer reliable tank killers.
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deth110
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Lychguard
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Agreed.
Of course the only thing that it could reliable pen was a rhino so....
Then there is always mass gauss.
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Secundum
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Phaeron
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Yeah, and we have our Crypteks with blasting sticks, and zapping sticks.
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Olfgund
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deth110
May 22 2014, 02:52 PM
Of course the only thing that it could reliable pen was a rhino so....
That's my experience as well, AV12 meant the TD had to roll a 6 to generate a pen and yet another 6 to detonate its target (5 if target was open top). Now it would only blow up open top vehicles with a roll of 6 on the new pen chart
The TD's strenght is volume of fire from tesla effect to remove hull points
and it would remain good against flyers from the tesla-TL combo ; at least forcing the flyer to evade
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Secundum
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Phaeron
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Mine never seems to manage to hit fliers, even WITH twin-linked.
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Omar
Flayed One
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my AB went up against its first flyer the other day..
1 hit - 1 glance, 2 pens (2 destroyed results)
thank you twin-linked.
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Unholyllama
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New things relevant to the thread.

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2014/05/40k-7th-edition-rules-top-10-truth-squad.html

So Jink is before To Hit now (and not before Armor Penetration rolls like it is in 6th). So while the save is presumed to be the same, the fact that it now turns everything into auto-snaps is important.

Also - Snap shots and ignore cover are the same...not the -2BS like it was rumored to be.

Also - the vehicle damage table that Omar posted is accurate which means our Command Barges got a huge buff in that they cannot be immobalized.
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