Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Necrontyr Online News: Rules Forum Now Added!: http://w11.zetaboards.com/Necrontyr_Online/forum/4212462/
Welcome to Necrontyr Online. We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.
PLEASE MAKE SURE YOU'RE A NECRON FAN! (Or at least interested in starting them)


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
Tombblade storm unbound (1850)
Topic Started: Jun 2 2014, 07:20 PM (361 Views)
OhLongJohnson
Cryptek
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Hey there! Here a small tombblade-speed-oriented list. (1850 points)

It is unbound to give more options and does also use Tau-units.

HQ
Nemesor zahndrekh (with warriors in GA)

Troops:
6 necron warriors in GA

Fast attack:
5 naked Tombblades
5 naked Tombblades
5 naked Tombblades
5 naked Tombblades
5 naked Tombblades
5 naked Tombblades
5 naked Tombblades

Tau:
5 piranhas with fusion blasters (10 gun drones included)
5 piranhas with fusion blasters (10 gun drones included)

Heavy support:
Anhilation barge (Gauss)
Anhilation barge (Gauss)
Anhilation barge (Gauss)

So, this list is extremely fast and has a lot of dakka. Zahn for tankhunters and maybe stealth on the GA, however, could also use a CCB to replace zahn.
the 35(!!) Tombblades swarm around and dakka as much as they can.
The piranhas with fusion blaster (=18'' melta) take out heavy targets (MC, 2+ targets) and landraider stuff. First, they detach their drones giving you MORE MORE DAKKA. (I like gundrones)
THe anhilation barges chew through fliers and light vehicles. (Tankhunters may help) Also great against hordes and MCs.
GA for the Mothership-flavour and for capturing (and holding! jinking GA with stealth is hard to destroy) objectives.

If you could shoot every weapon in one turn that would make:
35 Gauss-blasters
16 Gauss-flayers (due to GA)
10 Fusion blasters (18'' melta)
20 TL pulse carbine (18'' S5 AP5 Assault 2 pinning)
3 TL Tesla destructors
3 Gauss cannons
!!!
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Oberron
Destroyer
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
only thing i can see is that blast will tear you up. And for tombblades it might be better off to give them the stealth upgrade to make them more durable. That way they can 3+jink when they need to or if they are in decent cover already have a better one like in ruins or such. just my 2 cents. I'm not sure on the tau units since i don't play them or fingered through their codex.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Secundum
Member Avatar
Phaeron
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
You might struggle against Horde lists, especially as current Ork rumours paint The Green Tide returning in force. (That's almost 200 Orks in just under 1000pts) Nids, less so, as you can can target the Synapse Creatures. And the Tomb Blades are tough enough to take massed lasgun fire.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
OhLongJohnson
Cryptek
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Tombblades with stealth are nice, yes, but I dont think the 10 points more are justified! That would mean 1/3 tombblades less! Number is key.
And why would blasts mess me up? Tombblade units are pretty small, so just keep the units separated from each other.
Tau piranhas are a steal (Imho). For 50 points you get a 11/10/10 fast skimmer with a improved melta. But the key: You get 2 drones attached to it for free. 2 drones are 24 points, so you end up paying 26 points for a 11/10/10 fast (open topped) skimmer with a 18'' melta.


About the green tide: Dunno if thats really a big problem. Lets mathhammer that:
35 TL shots: (24 '')
35*8/9*2/3 = 20.7 dead orks just due to Tombblades
3 AB:
12*1.25 (chance hitting due to tesla)*5/6*5/6= 10.41 dead orks due to Tesla destructor (without ark)
6*2/3*2/3= 2.66 dead orks due to Gauss cannon

10 piranhas:
10*1/2*5/6 = 4.16 dead orks due to piranha melta

20 gundrones:
40*5/9*2/3 = 14.81 dead orks due to gundrones

Gauss flayers:
11*2/3*1/2 = 3.66 dead orks due to Gauss flayers (warriors and GA)

Making a total of: 20.7+2.66+4.16+14.81+3.66 = 46 dead orks/turn. If everything stays in maximum range (24'' or 18'').

So I think 46 orks is pretty nice, now you also would have to count all the moral checks due to losses and pinning tests due to gundrones. Also Tesla-ark may do some damage (everything will be packed together in a huge horde). If the tombblades get into 12'' range, their killing potencial duplicates (to finish off damaged ork units). I think it would actually be pretty hard for the ork force to catch you (everything is darn fast, with the tomblades: Just turbo boost 24'' over their head to their own table half), and if you take away furious charge from a mob (zahndrekh) they even have a hard time killing tombblade units in CC (wounding on 6).
However, if the orks are in cover you would kill less- obviously. But use your mobility to shoot at the weak spots.

Ah: Against ork transports you may make a nice little trick: use 2 units of tomblades to surround the vehicle (tombblades are big) and then blow it to bits. As the orks cant disembark, they die (also doable against landraiders filled with terminators ;) )
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Olfgund
Member Avatar
Praetorian
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
And I tough I was a tomb blade fan !
I did not see the blast vulnerability either, as you don't field units with the "swarm" USR (the drones?), maybe something new in 7th...

It should be a fun list to play with as you will be able to zap around in all directions if mission objectives requires it
My suggestion would be to mix tomb blade armament between tesla and gauss for two reasons:
1. you can send specific groups against specific targets according to their armor saves (tesla against good armor, gauss against 4+ armor)
2. the limit of mathhammer : range management. With gauss blaster, you are always tempted to get within rapid fire range for more shots. This is how I lose my TB. Because rapidfire range also means assault range for the enemy. WIth tesla, you can stay in the 20-23 range for safety. Your list is all about dakka which is nice, and the counter might to charge you as much as possible to lock your shooty units

AB against flier, gauss against vehicles, melta shot against MC. Pretty good list. I'M curious, how many count-as/proxy will you use ? ;) we are talking 12 kits of tomb blades here!

Edited by Olfgund, Jun 3 2014, 07:29 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Oberron
Destroyer
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
I thought tombblades where as long as eldar jetbikes bleh nvm i remembered incorrectly. And i thought the tau allies where fire warriors. As for stealth you'd get 1/3 less but it would improve their survivability greatly and 10pts for a 3+jink will make them a tough nut to crack on top of their t5.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
OhLongJohnson
Cryptek
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
@Olfgund
That mixing part is also a point I'm still not shure about! Gauss has its advantages, but tesla is great while jinking and fairly more effective at 24'' (although not a LOT more efective). You are right, the tentation to get within 12'' is great (btw all mathhammer was realized at 24''), but sometimes it is good to have that option if you want to finish off a unit (then charge if there is just 1-2 model left...yes, I said charge! with tombblades! :D)
Maybe mixing 3-4 either way is a good idea. Or just control yourself and dont suicide your tombblades (easier said than done :D).
The nice thing about Gauss-tombblade is that you can give them tankhunters, get within 12'' of a vehicle and have a good chance of stripping away 3hp (enough to wreck most vehicles)

About the models: I dont have tombblades neither Piranhas, so ..well..id have to proxy a lot :D. The thing is, both are units that most necron/tau players dont use that much, so borrowing is difficult. However, I am gonna try out that list in a vasall game, just to see how it performs.

@Oberron
No tau firewarriors ;), everything has to be mobile!As said, piranhas are actually fast skimmers with 18'' melta, so really good at getting close up melta shots on target. (and cool ;) )
I understand that +1 cover is actually really nice, but I feel it 23 tombblade instead of 35 would weaken the list in firepower AND survivability. (for +5 points I'd take it)
Im not shure: What will live longer: 2 Tombblades with stealth, or 3 tombblades without. (2 wounds with 3+ jink or 3 wounds with 4+ jink?)
I would have to mathhammer that.

Lets see: autocannon S7 ap4:
2 tombblades with stealth:
x*5/6*1/3 = 2. x=7.2 (you would need 7.2 HITS to kill 2 stealth tombblades, jinking)
3 tombblades without:
x*5/6*1/2= 3 x=7.2 (you would also need 7.2 HITS to kill 3 normal tombblades, jinking)

Now: Bolter
2 tombblades with stealth:
x*1/3*1/3 = 2 x= 18 (18 bolter HITS to kill 2 stealth tombblades, jinking)
3 tombblades without:
x*1/3*1/2= 3 x = 18 (18 bolter HITS to kill 3 normal tombblades, NOT JINKING)

So, my mathhammer tells me that stealth tombblades are not actually harder to kill, because you get more wounds on normal tombblades. Jinking, you need the exact a
same amount of shots to kill 120 points of tombblades in either case. Not jinking, the normal tombblades are harder to kill (120 points of em)
ALso: dont forget: RP. More wounds--> more chance of getting back again. IF we take RP into account (and unit not whiped out), then normal tombblades are harder to kill in every case. However, naked tombblade unit gets whiped out more easily.

Did you notice: 7.2 autocannon HITS to kill 3 tombblades, how about 5?
x*5/6*1/2=5 x= 12. (12 autocannon HITS to kill 5 normal tombblades)
That makes about 24 autocannon shots (IG) to kill 5 normal tombblades, quite a lot!
About 18*5/3 = 30 bolter HITS to kill 5 tombblades, that makes about 45 bolter shots needed (SM) to kill 5 tombblades!!
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
M0Dark
Member Avatar
Deathmark
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Secundum
Jun 3 2014, 10:41 AM
You might struggle against Horde lists, especially as current Ork rumours paint The Green Tide returning in force. (That's almost 200 Orks in just under 1000pts) Nids, less so, as you can can target the Synapse Creatures. And the Tomb Blades are tough enough to take massed lasgun fire.
Not so sure on the Nid Synapse thing. I watched our Nid player field a Synapse-less army against a newb the other day and it totally destroyed him. Quite a few of the behaviors can be beneficial to the Nids now. Some of the units wont do what they want them to but generally units of 30 Hormagaunts that have to try to eat you regardless is gonna cause you some issues with this list. 30 Gaunts is only the same points as an OL with res orb if I remember right.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Secundum
Member Avatar
Phaeron
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Fielding an army against a noob hardly counts....
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Oberron
Destroyer
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
@OLJ sooooo they are tougher to kill but on the other hand you have more wounds. But do the math for a single full unit being shot at if you would im use to the 216 method.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
OhLongJohnson
Cryptek
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Quote:
 
@OLJ sooooo they are tougher to kill but on the other hand you have more wounds. But do the math for a single full unit being shot at if you would im use to the 216 method.

I'm sorry but I didnt understand that post :D
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Ffyllotepk
Immortal
[ *  *  *  * ]
I think the original list is great.

I don't think Zan brings an lot to the army. IMO replacing him and getting two destroyer lords with Res Orbs, Scythes and some other fancy trickery would be a much better opinion. Those tomb-blades being led by the destroyers would get Preferred Enemy (Everything), and woul dget back up on a 4+, not a 5+.

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Olfgund
Member Avatar
Praetorian
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
And now that Focus fire is gone in 7th, there is no more risk that the destroyer lord be easily targeted for not having a (jink) cover save
I will certainly try that but detaching the destroyer lord turn 2 or three when there should be a nice target to charge nearby. The tomb blade are shooties and the DL is a melee-monster so unless you charge a weaken/small unit to finish it by the start of your next turn, being locked in combat lessen the capabilities of the TB
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
OhLongJohnson
Cryptek
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
I like the idea of the destroyer lords (although, pointwise you cant replace zahn with 2 destroyer lord...more with 1 1/4..)
However, I disagree that zahndrekh doesnt bring a lot to the army. He brings tankhunters to the force...he makes EVERY tombblade unit a possible tankhunting unit.
That means...in order to keep his tanks save the opponent would have to keep his tanks away from EVERY unit of tombblades...next to impossible.

Zahndreks tankhunters makes the "just glance it do death"-tactic pretty reliable.

The tombblades itself would not profit a lot from preferred enemy, as they are twinlinked anyways. Just for the wounding they would profit a bit...
And I dont know if resorb in small unit sizes (5) does make its points back...
However, I give you that the Destroyer Lord could split off and hunt something on its own (if convenient)

But in the end there is one thing: I dont know if even bother taking the GA...in the end, its unbound anyways and the GA (and troops inside) wont get "objective secured" anyways...(however, it takes the mothership feeling away :( )

Edit: I think you might be right about droppin zahnkdrekh (and with him the ark).
I replaced him by a destoyer lord with MSS, weave and scythe...this opens up 220 points to spend elsewhere!
Posibilities: - 2 more AB and still points left (however, quite spammy)
- Hammerhead gunship with longstrike and some points left
- naked Hammerhead gunship and AB
- nightshroud bomber
- 4 more piranhas with fusion blasters...
- 5 more piranhas with burst cannons (S5 AP5 assault 4)
- more tombblades
- riptide
- crisis squad
- full equipped Tau commander to boost the drones

What do you think this list is missing the most? the 220 points could fill the gap!
Edited by OhLongJohnson, Jun 13 2014, 01:31 AM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Oberron
Destroyer
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
OhLongJohnson
Jun 9 2014, 07:57 PM
Quote:
 
@OLJ sooooo they are tougher to kill but on the other hand you have more wounds. But do the math for a single full unit being shot at if you would im use to the 216 method.

I'm sorry but I didnt understand that post :D
The ones with stealth are harder to kill but the ones without stealth have more wounds to "soak" with. And i was asking if you could do the math for two full units. One with the stealth and one without
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
OhLongJohnson
Cryptek
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Ah, ok. Shure

unit A = full unit without stealth
unit B = full unit with stealth

Weapon 1 = S4 AP 5 (bolter, gauss flayer...etc)
Weapon 2 = S7 AP 4 (autocannon, etc)
Weapon 3 = S5 AP4 (heavy bolter, etc)

Weapon 1 shooting at unit A. No jink.
x*1/3*1/2=5. x = 30 (30 hits needed to whipe out unit)

Weapon 2 shooting at unit A. Jink
x*5/6*1/2=5 x = 12 (12 hits needed to whipe out unit)

Weapon 3 shooting at unit A. Jink
x*1/2*1/2=5 x = 20 (20 hits needed to whipe out unit)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Weapon 1 shooting at unit B. No jink
x*1/3*1/2=5 x = 30 (30 hits needed to whipe out unit)

Weapon 1 shooting at unit B. Jink
x*1/3*1/3 =5 x = 45 (45 hits needed to whipe out unit)

Weapon 2 shooting at unit B. Jink
x*5/6*1/3 = 5 x = 18 (18 hits needed to whipe out unit)

Weapon 3 shooting at unit B. Jink
x*1/2*1/3 = 5 x =30 (30 hits needed to whipe out unit)


So there it is! I did not take into account RP (as whiped out unit anyways doesnt profit from it). Consider that I'm doing the math for HITS, not for SHOTS. This way it doesnt matter which bs the shooting unit has.

The new list. I changed quite a bit. (GA- gone, warriors- gone, Zahndrekh- gone)
I did make it however more Tau orientated (it is now about 50-50 Necron Tau)
New Warlord is a Tau commander, as I feel he brings much more synergy to the list. However, no stab at all.
If you wonder whats up with all the drones..together with the commander they form a VERY strong allround unit. I wrote about that in the old forum...if you are interested, just check out what I wrote before...here the link: http://necrontyronline.freeforums.org/ridonkulos-tau-drone-unit-allies-t2561.html

However, back then I though 10 drones would have 30 shots...in reality they have just 20 shots so take that into account.

Here it comes:
HQ
Tau commander(really expensive)
with drone control, crisis "iridium" suit (+1 T ,2+ save), vectored retro-thrusters (hit and run), neuroweb system jammer ("gets hot" on enemy unit within 12 inches), multi-specrum sensor suite (ignores cover for models in same unit),
puretide-engram-neurochip (tankhunters/monsterhunters or stubborn), 2 flamers
& 2 marker drones

Fast attack:
5 Tombblades Gauss
5 Tombblades Gauss
5 Tombblades Gauss
5 Tombblades Gauss
5 Tombblades Gauss
5 Tombblades Gauss
4 Tombblades Gauss

5 piranhas with fusion blasters (10 gun drones included)
5 piranhas with fusion blasters (10 gun drones included)
9 drones, 4 marker 5 attack

Heavy support
Anhilation barge
Anhilation barge
Anhilation barge
Anhilation barge


So. Commander starts game in the drone Swarm...if that one gets whiped he just jumps to one of the other swarms with 10 gundrones (coming from the piranhas).
While the commander is in the drone swarm (with marker drones) you get about 5 marker light hits/turn. This marker lights get picked up by piranhas to boost der BS or ignore cover.
Dont forget to read about the drone unit with commander. the drones get insanely boosted by the commander.
I admit that 4 ABs feel quite spammy. If you feel its too spammy replace 2 of em with one hammerhead gunship with longstrike.
Edited by OhLongJohnson, Jun 13 2014, 03:50 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
ZetaBoards - Free Forum Hosting
Fully Featured & Customizable Free Forums
« Previous Topic · Army Lists · Next Topic »
Add Reply