Necrontyr Online News: Rules Forum Now Added!: http://w11.zetaboards.com/Necrontyr_Online/forum/4212462/
| Welcome to Necrontyr Online. We hope you enjoy your visit. You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free. PLEASE MAKE SURE YOU'RE A NECRON FAN! (Or at least interested in starting them) Join our community! If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features: |
| Tactics Against New Orks; A new codex comes new tactics | |
|---|---|
| Tweet Topic Started: Jul 3 2014, 06:08 AM (363 Views) | |
| Unholyllama | Jul 3 2014, 06:08 AM Post #1 |
|
Lord
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
A new Ork codex has dropped and people have began to stop freaking out about their old builds sucking more and realizing there's a LOT of good things in the new book. What does this mean to Necrons though? Know Thy Enemy There's a lot of changes in the book - too many to cover in this thread; however, there are a few broad strokes (and specific highlights) I want to point out here. 1. [Almost] No Invulnerable Saves Orks took a hit in that the Cybork Body upgrade was changed from a 5++ save to a 6+ FNP. The only Invulnerable saves are now from the Big Mek's (and Morkanaut's) Kustom Force Field (5++ to models within 6"), Kaptan Badrukk's Armor (3+/5++), and Ghazghkull Thraka's 2++ during his Waaagh!. That leaves the armor saves of orks at either 2+ (MegaArmor), 4+ (Heavy Armor & Bikes/Deffkoptas), or normal 6+ (t-shirts). 2. LOTS of Rokkits In the old book, taking a Rokkit on something usually was +10pts. Now, it's either +5pts (in terms of trukks and wagons) or free! In addition to that, TankBustas (boyz that come with rokkits standard) became cheaper, gained tank hunter, and lost their ADHD ability that required them to shoot at vehicles before an infantry unit 2" in front of them. Furthermore, Warbuggies and Deffkoptas both became cheaper and can now take their Twin Linked Rokkits for free. That opens up for a lot more S8 AP3 shots coming from the orks. Even with BS2, that's potent. 3. Stikkbombs and Trukks for Everyone! Stikkbombs are assault grenades and 95% of the units in the book now have them. Furthermore, almost every infantry unit can now take a trukk as a DT. No more having to pay for a battlewagon or hijack a boyz' trukk. Burnas can take a trukk. Tankbustas and lootas can get trukks. Nobz and Flashgitz. There are more units that CAN than those that can't. Trukks are AV10/10/10 with 3HP, can come with a Rokkit, are opened top, and can come with an upgrade that adds +2 to the charge range when assaulting from the vehicle. This makes orks even more mobile and able to get into combat. 4. Mob Rule no longer means Fearless. Old book - if the unit had 11+ models in it, they were fearless. New Book - if the unit fails morale or pinning, they roll a D6 and consult a chart. This allows Orks to go to ground now but also means they have to deal with LD7 a lot more. The Mob Rule table auto-passes morale tests depending on 1 of 3 conditions set to the die roll. 1 - If they are in combat, they are good else they break. 2-3 - If they have a character in the unit, they take D6 hits but count as passing; no character, they break. 4-6 - If they have 10+, they take D6 hits but count as passing; less than 10 they break. 5. Deffrollas nerfed Hard Deffrollas were great. D6 S10 hits on the unit that is tank shocked or a vehicle that's rammed. The old weakness was that it's AP- so infantry weren't afraid of it. Now, it's only D3 S10 AP4 hits....that only happen during a Death or Glory attempt. I don't see many Death or Glory attempts and the ones I do see aren't against AV14 - let alone with an AP2 or AP1 melee weapon to cause an explosion result now. Counter-Tactics Note: It's still early so these things may not stand up; however, these are some items I've seen thus far playtesting my own Ork army against Necrons and other races. These are the weaknesses and tactics that have hurt my orks so far. 1. Precision Strike is your friend. Being able to snipe out the characters of the units helps us utilize mob rule better. Each unit has the option to take a sergeant of sorts - be it a nob or a "boss nob" which is the same stats. Sniping him out with precision shots means that Mob Rule Rolls of 2-3 will force an auto-fail instead of just causing D6 S4 AP- hits. While the extra hits help, they still have to wound T4 models - and really, with LD7 we'd rather see orks run than get into close combat with Necrons. 2. Target Tractor Kannons first Tractor Kannons are a new Mek Gun model that has skyfire. Each gun (unit can have up to 5) shoots a single 36" S8 AP3 shot with 1 particularly interesting special rule. Any glance or penetrating hit causes an automatic immobilized result to Zooming Flyers (only) in addition to whatever else is rolled on the damage table if a Pen happens. That's very nasty for Night Scythes. That's just as nasty for our large amount of Skimmers. 3. Template Weapons Necrons don't have many; however, with the Template weapons gaining "No Escape", being able to flame boyz inside of vehicles is just as good as destroying the vehicle outright. Heat Ray Stalkers and D&D squads are useful here but this also has me looking at the Gauntlets of Fire again. This is, of course, in addition to the fact that templates are always fun against hordes. 4. Boyz still Suck when charged I am not a fan of Boyz. Yes they are cheap and have a lot of attacks but if they don't get the charge off, they are I2 and S3. They depend on numbers and Furious charge. Do the math - if you don't think you can rapid fire into them enough to kill 25% - consider charging them instead. We swing at the same time, only we have better saves and wounding on 4s instead of the orks' 5s with only 6+ saves. In the old book, I've seen a CSM player have 6 Chosen survive a full unit of 30 boyz because he charged and made a good amount of 3+ saves. 5. Warbosses in MegaArmor can get a 2+ rerollable There's a new relic that allows the character to reroll missed Hits, Wounds, or Saves. The also grants +1WS the model's unit. The catch is that if 3 rerolls end up failing in the same turn, the model is outright removed as a casualty. So if you reroll 3 failed to hits (5+ to hit) and roll 3 more failures, he's gone. But this also allows a warboss in MegaArmor to have a 2+ rerollable armor save. Thankfully, this is not an invulnerable save, and comes with an unwieldy weapon (so I1). Warscythes do not fear this. 6. IC Painboyz and Meks Painboyz became ICs so they grant 5+ FNP to any unit they join (so 30 boyz now have a 6+/5+FNP for 50pts). Meks are like our RC. You attach them to a unit and they are another character. The thing about Meks though, is that they can take a new Killsaw - it's a PowerKlaw (Sx2, AP2, Unwieldy) with Armorbane. Again - precision shot. 7. Guass over Tesla Immortals Tesla is great - especially against hordes and models with little to no armor save (like boyz). However, boyz can take 'eavy armor unrestricted now. The old book was only 1 unit now every unit can take them. Having AP4 is a nice way to make sure they stay dead. In addition, bikes and deffkoptas (jetbikes) have a 4+ armor and are menacing enough that they will be seen on the tables. Pack the AP4, leave the arcing. That's the main things. I have had a LOT of success with the new Ork book since it fits better with how I ran old Orks (I loved tankbustas and buggies before and now they are better). Orks got a lot more powerful with more availability to better weapons and tweaked units. Flashgitz and mek gunz are amazing but buggies and deffkoptas got a huge boost too. The largest hit is the changes to Mob Rule though - 1 turn of most Necrons firing into a unit of 30 will more than likely have them running or be in a manageable melee state. More Rokkits and other guns mean they can deal with AV13 better but not to the point of an explodes result. Deffkoptas can get S8 AP2 (for free) though so be careful. I'm one of the few Necron and Orks players in my group. While I played the other Necron player once, I still haven't faced against Orks themselves (only played as Orks). So as I get more games - I'll add in more thoughts. As always, feel free to ask question and provide your own anecdotes and advice to the thread as I'd love to hear how you guys are fairing. Edited by Unholyllama, Jul 3 2014, 06:11 AM.
|
|
|
| Magister Jaigo | Jul 3 2014, 05:44 PM Post #2 |
|
Cryptek
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Nice tactica, thank you for writting it up. |
|
|
| Asavar88 | Jul 4 2014, 02:41 AM Post #3 |
|
Immortal
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
That's a lot to take on board! I'll have to get a look at the new Ork book to look at it in more detail, but these general pointers are excellent for starting to form some strategies! Cheers, Unholyllama! |
|
|
| Idaho | Jul 4 2014, 07:36 PM Post #4 |
|
Lychguard
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Good post. I'd like to add... I think our good old fashioned Wraith and Destroyer Lord combination will be very effective. Punish Orks for crossing ground to our infantry and then counter charge. Annihilation barges are great as always. Target priority is a difficult thing to achieve but the slower units should fall secondary to the faster units that can swamp us. Use Ghost Arks to block the attack. Better to lose a Ghost Ark to a charge than the infantry on board. Canoptek Spyders! Twin linked blast templates will hurt Orks and can tie up most mobz at least for a turn or two before any hidden power klaw manages to get enough wounds. Just two units have 6 wounds to chug through! Now, is the Traktor cannon actually any good against our skimmers? S8 is meh against AV13! |
|
|
| Unholyllama | Jul 5 2014, 02:03 AM Post #5 |
|
Lord
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Anything S8 can get lucky against our skimmers with a single 6. And, unless they get really lucky and roll a second 6, quantum shielding is gone which exposes us like no other. And Orks now have a LOT of S8 and higher. Smash guns are another new model that can be taken with the tractor kannon. S D6+4 AP1 compliments the tractors well. |
|
|
| OhLongJohnson | Jul 5 2014, 05:02 PM Post #6 |
|
Cryptek
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
I think unholy is right about the S8...it might cost us our quantum and once the quantum is down penning gets really easy. Whats worse when you fight against orks: You never know when to jink. If a spacemarine-devastador squad shoots at you, the decision is easy. But if 2 orks with bazookas shoot at you its more difficult. On one hand: They probably dont even hit. On the other hand: IF they hit and you dont jink, it might end up bad for you. |
|
|
| Magister Jaigo | Jul 5 2014, 09:10 PM Post #7 |
|
Cryptek
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Mass rokkits also pose a danger for wraiths. Those instakills really hurt |
|
|
| Idaho | Jul 6 2014, 11:01 AM Post #8 |
|
Lychguard
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Massed rockets could be a danger but how many are we talking about really? We need to shut down Ork Trukks as soon as possible because they transport infantry wanting to swamp us in assault. For the Ork player's part, the Trukks will not be hanging back shooting us with Rockets, which also affects the squad on board. As for when to jink; tough one at times but if you have a unit that is an obvious target then you know the Ork player will focus fire. In fact if you don't jink straight off and he's got a lot of models ready to fire, jink anyway because most players will focus fire. Ghost Arks aren't that killy and Barges enjoy the benefits of Tesla twin linked anyway so jinking isn't going to ruin us as much as it'll frustrate our opponents. If you're worried about embarked Warriors forced to snap fire, put them before the Ark and have it advance as a barrier to the squad to prevent the charge. Then you still get shots off even when jinking. |
|
|
| OhLongJohnson | Jul 6 2014, 02:41 PM Post #9 |
|
Cryptek
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Actually, jinking does not affect the passengers in any means! so happy jinking with your ghostarks. |
|
|
| Secundum | Jul 7 2014, 03:14 AM Post #10 |
|
Phaeron
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Lost my first game. Faced the Green Tide. 3 HQs, 9 sets of Boyz all with a 4+, Meks providing 5++s, and Ghazgull as a LoW. They just kept coming! |
|
|
| Unholyllama | Jul 7 2014, 06:52 PM Post #11 |
|
Lord
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Sounds about right. Being able to take multiple units with 4+ armor now is expensive but worthwhile now that they aren't fearless. The Mek providing 5++ is only to the models within range and not units any more (and only against shooting) but still can be mean. And that's just the normal Ork force and not the Green Tide formation that's in the Ghazghkull book. |
|
|
| OhLongJohnson | Jul 7 2014, 06:56 PM Post #12 |
|
Cryptek
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Btw...are Orks and Necrons still allies of convenience??? |
|
|
| Unholyllama | Jul 7 2014, 07:05 PM Post #13 |
|
Lord
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
No Desparate. So no real changes other than we now gain the 6" range for the "one eye open" rule. Orks went from pretty much mercenaries in 6th to an untrusting sort. |
|
|
| Unholyllama | Jul 9 2014, 04:03 PM Post #14 |
|
Lord
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
So had a new game last night with my Orks against a Daemon army that yielded some interesting insights. The match was a rematch of an old game I had played with a buddy of mine. He likes more Daemonettes than other options and last time we played (in 6th), daemonettes just murdered boyz. Last night was a little different and ended up being a very close game. His main daemonette force had 20 models with 2 heralds and a standard bearer with the loci that lets him reroll to hits in close combat. 1 Herald had the Grimoire and the other rolled Cursed Earth - giving of them a 2++ save. It took them 5-6 rounds of combat before they could get through 30 boyz in 'Eavy Armor (4+ save) and a Painboy (5+ FNP). Both units (including ICs) were about 400pts; however, the saves and the new mob rule helped the large unit of boyz a lot more than exected. Some of his 10 model squads (either purchased or summoned) were wiped in a single round of assault from a unit of 10 boyz that woudl charge them. - Again, mob rule with bosspole saved the day in the 1 or two times they had lost and had to go to the next round. Even a weakened squad of 8 boyz (with PK BP nob) was able to drop a Keeper of Secrets (stupid possession ability) to within 1 wound of dying before getting swept - after 3 rounds of close combat. I also ran my Warboss on a blitzbike (relic) attached to a unit of KMB Deffkoptas and a Painboy on bike. The BS2 hurt them the most and switching to TL Rokkits will be next. So the insights from this specific game - New Mob Rule GREATLY helps small boyz units (where as the old book only helped 11+ model units). Even larger units weren't affected that much. - Bording planks on trucks are stupid good (+2" to charge range when assaulting from the vehicle) - Deffkoptas with KMB are good in theory but TL Rokkits will be a lot better. - Objective Secured isn't a huge boost against a multi-unit orks (who don't have Objective Secured unless they take the CAD). Both my opponent and myself agree that had he failed the Grimoire once (after Fateweaver's reroll) I would have won. Having the 2++ invulnerable on the Daemonettes tied up my large squad and prevented them from being very effective (beyond tying up his own squad of death). I won't be surprised if Orks end up being considered a more top-tier codex at this point. Add in the Warband formation that lets you Waaagh every turn started on turn 2 (Waagh is now Run and Charge same turn), orks have the speed to assault and get through. If you can weather the assault, you'll win. |
|
|
| Idaho | Jul 9 2014, 08:03 PM Post #15 |
|
Lychguard
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
On that note, I think it's a good idea to hit them with as many shots as possible. As much as I think Gauss blasters are awesome, there are plenty of other ways to get Tesla into the army! ;) Annihilation Barges and Ghosts Arks will hurt all Ork vehicles bar the Wagons and even then we have Gauss if need be. Harbringer of the Storm are great utility. Harbringer of Transmogrifivation could be amazing. Blasts and difficult terrain? Mega lol! Spyders with particle cannons will be useful and can be a tough counter attack for smaller Trukk borne mobz. |
|
|
| Secundum | Jul 9 2014, 09:52 PM Post #16 |
|
Phaeron
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
I think the main issue with the new dex vs. us is weight of models. imo the Ideal force to beat them would be: 3 Triarch Stalkers, 3 Annihilation Barges, 120 Warriors, and Serez. |
|
|
| 1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous) | |
| « Previous Topic · Tactica Necrons · Next Topic » |





![]](http://z5.ifrm.com/static/1/pip_r.png)

1:43 AM Jul 11