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| Command Barge Experiences and Uses; What have people done with the command barge? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jul 22 2014, 07:19 PM (425 Views) | |
| Unholyllama | Jul 22 2014, 07:19 PM Post #1 |
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Lord
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So...the updated chariot rules has made the command barge a beast on paper; however, I haven't had too much success in using it. Getting locked in combat and not really killing a lot of models in the process has me questioning how people are using them that makes them "so good". So - what is everyone's experiences with the command barge? how are you kitting it and the overlord out? What targets do you go after? Is there anything else you do to support it? |
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| Idaho | Jul 22 2014, 07:44 PM Post #2 |
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Lychguard
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Target has got to be shooting support units and smaller units, often elite and high profile. That will mean the target doesn't bog down the Barge. Also if the target is Lootas you've done well to stop them shooting ;) |
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| Rutgerman | Jul 23 2014, 09:12 AM Post #3 |
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Warrior
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I've been wondering the same thing, I'm really interested at the comments here, I myself kit it at 255 points: Lord, Barge, MSS, Weave, Shifter, WS. Haven't tried him yet (because I don't have one :'( ) but soon I will and then I'll be glad to figure out the odds! In the meantime I hope experienced barge players put their findings here :) |
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| Carnotek | Jul 29 2014, 05:35 AM Post #4 |
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Flayed One
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I run W/S M/S 3+invul and res orb ... find it gets locked in combat now people tarpit me I haven't had any success with it since 7th |
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| gravmyr | Jul 29 2014, 12:24 PM Post #5 |
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Deathmark
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You should do you your best to avoid leaving yourself open to be tarpitted. While there are times you can't avoid it, most of the time you should be able to spread out through pressure where you attack. Even if you get tarpitted many time it will take a unit costing more than the Barge locking them out of the battle and preventing the rest of his models from shooting at the Barge. |
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| Unholyllama | Jul 29 2014, 02:04 PM Post #6 |
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Lord
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Easier said than done in some areas. MSU (multiple small unit) style armies seem to be on the rise and a simple unit of 10 ork boyz in a trukk can tarpit (and possibly wound) a barge for the better part of the game. |
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| OhLongJohnson | Jul 29 2014, 02:45 PM Post #7 |
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Cryptek
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I myself have just used it against IG- with great sucess...however this was against a tank heavy list so I couldnt get tarpitted... Maybe use the great speed to get it exactly where you want it (juicy units, tanks, etc)...once you are there, consider the barges job done and everything else is a bonus. (because once it is in enemy rows, it gets easy to tarpid). One possible thing to do would be to use one barge in combination with nemesor zahndrekh and give it hit&run. It might just have I2, but with 2 rolls per game turn you have about 5/9 (over 50%) chance of leaving the combat. That makes it unlikely to get tarpitted for more than 2 game turns. However, due to low I this tactic is far from perfect. Another thing would be: dont run it on its own, run it together with units that are good against hordes. One possible combination would be to hide a small unit of arcanthrites behind the barge. This has several advantages: - they move at about the same speed - arcanthrites hide behind the barge and profit from 4+ cover save due to stealth - arcanthrites can free tarpitted commando barge - the two can take about any target. (hordes, tanks, heavy infantry) |
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| Idaho | Jul 29 2014, 07:12 PM Post #8 |
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Lychguard
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Are multiple small units really that useful for swamping Catacomb Command Barges? 5 power armour models are choice targets whilst 10 Orks suffer from the Hammer of Wrath attacks, Mindshackle Scarabs and then the attacks and break fairly easily. Seems lethal to me? It's the bigger units you should worry about. 8+ Space Marines, 15 or so Orks, that kind of thing. Of course counter charging Space Marines are a pain any size because breaking them is difficult. |
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| Unholyllama | Jul 29 2014, 07:19 PM Post #9 |
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Lord
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Orks have such a huge threat range these days that it's extremely difficult to charge a unit of boyz. I can pretty consistently start my turn 26" away from my intended target and charge them with my orks now. And yes, you can charge the MEQ but they still get the saves against hammer of wrath. Even if you roll a good number of hits, they can still make those saves 66% of the time. And as for Mindshackle - there's still a debate on how they work in challenges since the wording on MSS has made some argue it doesn't drift to outside forces. Even so, getting challenged when you're a single model sucks since you can't decline and yet the entire outside force will take you down while you have to go up against their main character. Likewise, just because you charge 1 small unit, doesn't mean you won't be primed to be charged the next turn by another one. |
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| OhLongJohnson | Jul 29 2014, 07:51 PM Post #10 |
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Cryptek
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Is this still so? I was quite shure that remaining wounds in the pool now will (with 7th edition) flow out of the challenge...thus if you kill the sargeant/nob with the first strike, your other attacks could still kill models outside the challenge. I'm not shure though.
That is exactly the point. If you fight against MSU, there will be always another unit around ready to charge you. So yes, you might charge your first target, but then will get charged by yourself in the opponents turn. An overlord has 3 attacks without charge bonus. Against basic ork boys, he would kill 3*1/2*5/6 = 1.25 ork boys/turn. (MSS wont change that a lot) See what unholy means? A single blop of 10 orks (really not a lot of points) can tarpid the CCB for several gameturns! Your only hope is that they run...but now imagine to fight against cheap, FEARLESS units...you might be stuck there for the rest of the game. Thats why I say: Dont run it without escort. |
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| Unholyllama | Jul 29 2014, 08:51 PM Post #11 |
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Lord
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Challenges need FAQed for this matter. Models in a challenge cannot pile in and if you kill the other challengers before it's your time to swing (due to HoW, MSS, or other I10 ability), there is no one in base contact for you to swing at. Likewise, no where in the challenge rules does it states if you can attack outside forces once the challenger's dead; just that wounds carry over. If you cannot get into base contact with a model, you can't swing then. This will be rare for Necrons but still applies as there's a lot of confusion between 6th and 7th editions. The lack of explicit phrasing requires models to fall back to the assault phase rulings which would give outside forces to attack models that are locked in a challenge - though wounds cannot be allocated until all other models are removed. This is not a huge deal with Necrons thanks to I2 (most things will pile in before us); however, if you go up against a lot of I1 powerfists or powerklaws, you could find yourself ina sitaution where you cant' swing back. This situation has came up a number of times when my necrons fight Daemons. Daemon MC Character charges > Cryptek is sacrificed and dies to HoW > MC can't attack since there's nothing in base contact as my Necrons haven't piled in yet. |
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| gravmyr | Jul 29 2014, 09:59 PM Post #12 |
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Deathmark
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After looking at challenges it looks like they removed the line about only being in base contact with the character. Following the directions for challenges you would still strike at the character but the wounds would trickle over to the unit. |
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| Unholyllama | Jul 29 2014, 10:32 PM Post #13 |
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Lord
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True - the issue comes in with the fact that you charge always closest to closest. Since we are using round bases, it'll always be 1 model against 1 other model. There is verbiage concerning challengers and any model moved to get challengers into base contact with each other not being able to pile in. So no pile ins until outside forces do so. |
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| gravmyr | Jul 30 2014, 12:41 AM Post #14 |
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Deathmark
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Generally not a problem with our whopping 2 initiative. |
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| Carnotek | Jul 31 2014, 12:20 AM Post #15 |
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Flayed One
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the problem I find is with only w/s 4 and then dropping to 3 attacks if I don't get a good HoW and 4 attacks on the charge I can be pretty easily tied up |
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| Jaba San | Aug 5 2014, 04:17 PM Post #16 |
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Canoptek Scarab
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I was thinking of running a 1500pt Feast of Blades Qualifier that ran 2 ccb, 2 annahilation barges, to ghost arcs with 10 warriors, a night sythe with 10 warriors and 6 scarabs. I played a similar list with Imotekh and the lord in the ccb was a true battle feild bully, running around and taking everyones lunch money. He was put down once by a hive tyrant smash attack, but most armies don't have the juice to deal with this vehicle and the new charriot rules. Watch out for haywire flamers though. |
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| Unholyllama | Aug 5 2014, 04:29 PM Post #17 |
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Lord
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What specifically made it worthwhile in your battles? How did you stay out of CC against a horde army like nids? On a side note - I love scarabs but dont' know if I would run them in a tournament list any more. They are great but they can't hurt Knights which are more and more common in tournaments (i've already heard of knights or knight allies winning other qualifiers for Feast is why I mention it). |
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| Omar | Aug 5 2014, 05:32 PM Post #18 |
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Flayed One
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i have been running my CCB with a gauntlet of fire rather than a Warscythe (also, PS, MSS, SW) anything toughness 4 or lower i make mincemeat out of.. as i get to reroll hits and wounds and has a flame template when shooting.. hordes have not been an issue... however when i start getting into toughness 5 or 6 with better saves i do wish i had a Warscythe with its AP1 and higher strength.. |
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| OhLongJohnson | Aug 5 2014, 06:19 PM Post #19 |
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Cryptek
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As cool as I think gauntlet is (i once made a gauntlet vs warscythe vs hyperphase-sword mathhammer against several enemies), I think the main problem with giving it to an Overlord in a CCB is that you take away his can-opener skills (The thing the CCB seems to be best in)... Would be a totally different thing if we could take both warscythe and Gauntlet, but sadly we cant. (that would be soooo awesome in a CCB) |
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| Omar | Aug 5 2014, 08:02 PM Post #20 |
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Flayed One
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just give the reroll and template ability to the warscythe... now that is a weapon i would pay many points for.. |
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1:42 AM Jul 11