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Daemonology; how to counter it
Topic Started: Aug 6 2014, 12:52 AM (258 Views)
Quinten87
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Lychguard
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Just played a person who used daemonology. He spawned pink horrors so the more he spawned the more warp charges he got so he was able to spawn more until he was at 40+ daemons a turn. If I shot at the Daemons his army remained untouched; if I shot at his army the daemons kept multiplying. The spellcasters were far enough back that I couldn't get at them. He had hundreds of daemons by games end and they just swarmed the table and there was nothing I could do. Any ideas on how to counter this? Grey Knights are desperate allies now. In that game I felt like it was early fifth again. I was being killed because I had no psykers to dispel anything. My army had a major fault in it not my tactics :-/

That guy also had way too much money to buy all those daemons and way too much time to paint them all
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Unholyllama
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That is a popular build now with Daemons. They just keep summoning and summoning and tend to not kill anything - they just keep summoning until there's no room left.

Thankfully daemons only have a 5+ save (unless he was smart and did scorched earth and the grimoire). Concentrate fire on them - focusing on the units with the heralds. Focus more on taking out 1 unit completely at a time since even 1 pink horror gives him the extra warp die.

Also - Summoning is Warpcharge 3 so if he's spawning that many instances of daemons, one would think he's perils on occasion - in which case just keep focusing on one unit at a time.

The other thing to remember about a list like this one - always play the mission. If the mission is objectives, comb a path to the objectives with warriors in ghost arks. Use Annihilation barges to deal extra hits.

Don't use Flyers as a good summoner will start looking for places for your night scythe to set down and summon there, making you fly off more often. Stick to ghost arks since Pink Horrors can't hit AV13.

It's not an easy list but so much of the list is about just overwhelming you that many just forget to actually kill anything. And in the end, that's not a fun list to play against since you aren't really doing anythign but playing more models down on the table.
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Quinten87
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Lychguard
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Sorry forgot to mention that it was actually eldar that were summoning the daemons since you can take daemonolgy with basically anyone but grey knights. Pink horrors get to re-roll invulns of 1. I don't have any ghost arks. Do you know of any way to take the objectives without them? He basically had three objectives covered in daemons. What is your opinion on grey knight allies when I know I'm going to play him as I have access to some models. Thanks for the advice.
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Unholyllama
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Quinten87
Aug 7 2014, 12:18 AM
Sorry forgot to mention that it was actually eldar that were summoning the daemons since you can take daemonolgy with basically anyone but grey knights. Pink horrors get to re-roll invulns of 1. I don't have any ghost arks. Do you know of any way to take the objectives without them? He basically had three objectives covered in daemons. What is your opinion on grey knight allies when I know I'm going to play him as I have access to some models. Thanks for the advice.
Unless you are a daemon, summoning and rolling ANY doubles (1,1 2,2, etc) is a perils...not just double 6's.

So if he rolled any doubles, then it's a perils. Most non-daemon armies seem to stay away from summoning since rolling 3 dice at 4+ and not rolling any doubles is not very reliable.
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Quinten87
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Lychguard
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Played him again and I lost again. Eldar can take items to reduce the amount of warp charges needed to cast a spell and have items to negate miscasts therefore making the spells very reliable. I killed off the units of daemons one by one this game as I now know that they grant you warp charges. Dice were pretty content to screw me over that game and I think I could of done a bit better with a bit more luck. Strategy is effective but not unbeatable. Annihilation barge took heavy causalities until he deepstriked some guys behind it. Tried deepstriking my monolith to start pumping guys out right next to his pyskers to start pumping guys through the dimensional corridor but it mishapped and I rolled a 1. :monolith: Thanks for the advice and keep it coming!
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OhLongJohnson
Cryptek
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Quinten87
Aug 10 2014, 06:20 AM
Played him again and I lost again. Eldar can take items to reduce the amount of warp charges needed to cast a spell and have items to negate miscasts therefore making the spells very reliable. I killed off the units of daemons one by one this game as I now know that they grant you warp charges. Dice were pretty content to screw me over that game and I think I could of done a bit better with a bit more luck. Strategy is effective but not unbeatable. Annihilation barge took heavy causalities until he deepstriked some guys behind it. Tried deepstriking my monolith to start pumping guys out right next to his pyskers to start pumping guys through the dimensional corridor but it mishapped and I rolled a 1. :monolith: Thanks for the advice and keep it coming!
Why did you DS the Monolith? Does seem uneffective for me in that case because of 2 reasons:
- Monolith provides nice firesupport against hordes with his S8 AP3 big blast. You'd lose that firesupport for some turns
- If the opponent covers the whole battlefield spawning pink horrors, your chance of mishapping is really high

Against such a list I would advice a monolith-Spam list. Get in there 2-3 monoliths with support of 1-2 Stalkers (if you have, obviously) and just blast everything to dust with you TL big blasts and heavy flamers (from the stalkers). Use that the opponents list seems to suck against AV13 and AV14
Use the Monoliths also to get big TL-firesupport.

Another counter I can see is to counter-spam your opponent. He spams pink horrors? Spam scarabs then! Get in there 9 Spiders, each with a TL particle beamer (nice against hordes). Then get 3 units of like 5 bases of scarabs in the beginning. Let them grow (9 bases/turn!) while you dezimate his pink horrors with the TL particle beamers.
Edited by OhLongJohnson, Aug 11 2014, 01:39 PM.
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Quinten87
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Deep striked the monolith so I could teleport guys right at his psykers. I have about 60 warriors 20 gauss immortals 1 monolith 5 lychgaurd with shields 5 lords 1 overlord Trazyn imotekh annihilation barge 2 spyders 9 scarabs 10 flayed ones 6 destroyers 1 destroyer lord 1 Old nightbringer model What should I do with this in about a 2000pt game? I would prefer not get new models.
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OhLongJohnson
Cryptek
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Quinten87
Aug 11 2014, 07:36 PM
Deep striked the monolith so I could teleport guys right at his psykers. I have about 60 warriors 20 gauss immortals 1 monolith 5 lychgaurd with shields 5 lords 1 overlord Trazyn imotekh annihilation barge 2 spyders 9 scarabs 10 flayed ones 6 destroyers 1 destroyer lord 1 Old nightbringer model What should I do with this in about a 2000pt game? I would prefer not get new models.
Of course, these would be a lot of models to buy! sorry!

Did you use imothek in your games? If not, maybe try to. Stick him in the same unit with a cronotek (maybe your opponent lets you use 1 lord as harbinger of time)
However: this does highly depend: Does your opponent have a LOT of SMALL pink-horror-units? (then imothek is your man)...if the opponent has a few, very big units then imothek might not be worth it.

Also use monolith, but dont keep him in reseve. Use your anhilation barge, the spyders and the scarabs. Consider splitting the scarabs into 2 units.
Then you might join the destroyer lord to a big blop of warriors (20). Giving them PE really boosts them.

I would give the spiders TL particle beamers (if you can)

As for Destroyers: Usually nice, but as pink horrors have an invul, they wont decimate them as much.

If you want something for deesptrike-surprise-buttsex use 2 small units of destroyers (of 2-3 models). These destroyers then deepstrike right next to his psykers and try to kill as many as possible (destroyers are jump infantry and therefore have the deepstrike special rule)

Lychguard...I dont know, I dont think they really do a lot against hordy opponents. Drop them (a lot of points) and just get warriors and immortals instead. Both warriors and immortals in small units

As for flayed ones: usually I dont really like them. However take into account that they have infiltration (and thus outflanking). They might outflank and come in on the table edge where the psykers are hiding....

If you go C'tan, give him that gaze of death power. Addicionaly you might give him the big pie plate.
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Quinten87
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Daemonology only allows you to spawn units of ten. Therefore the pink horrors are units of ten. I used Imoteckh in the first game and he didn't do very much so I dropped him for the second game. The flayed ones were very helpful (I love flayed ones took in units of five) I didn't take the lychgaurd in either game. What do you think about trazyn he has some good anti-horde abilities? Gaze of death does work well if you can get him in combat. My opponent stole the initiative and I had my C'tan placed in an aggressive position assume I could run him where I wanted but he ended u getting gunned down. The destroyer idea is really interesting I honestly didn't know they had deep strike! Thx for the advice hopefully next time we play I will be able to beat him. He is one of the two players in my gaming group that have beet me when I was controlling at least 25% of the alliance faction (lost a game when I had 500pts of necrons in a 3000pt game - doesn't really count)
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OhLongJohnson
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Quinten87
Aug 11 2014, 11:56 PM
Daemonology only allows you to spawn units of ten. Therefore the pink horrors are units of ten. I used Imoteckh in the first game and he didn't do very much so I dropped him for the second game. The flayed ones were very helpful (I love flayed ones took in units of five) I didn't take the lychgaurd in either game. What do you think about trazyn he has some good anti-horde abilities? Gaze of death does work well if you can get him in combat. My opponent stole the initiative and I had my C'tan placed in an aggressive position assume I could run him where I wanted but he ended u getting gunned down. The destroyer idea is really interesting I honestly didn't know they had deep strike! Thx for the advice hopefully next time we play I will be able to beat him. He is one of the two players in my gaming group that have beet me when I was controlling at least 25% of the alliance faction (lost a game when I had 500pts of necrons in a 3000pt game - doesn't really count)
Just start the game with the monolith on board and hide your shard behind your monolith so that it doesnt get gunned down!!
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Unholyllama
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The largest issue with a grounded Monolith is the Heavy rule limiting you to only 6" movement with no flatting out. This has it's uses but it also slows you down a LOT if you try to hide things behind it and slowly move up (as the units behind it can all move faster than it can).

Against a summoning army, the main thing will be to look into ways to get it onto the board. Deploying it on the edge of your deployment zone is 1 option as is deep striking it. Deep striking is a crapshoot due to the reserve rolls (66% chance per turn before modifiers) and scattering. Normal Terrain isn't a big deal but rolling that 1 on a dangerous terrain test sucks. On a summoning army, it's not difficult to counter a deep striking model by filling up available spaces. This was a common tactic for anti-drop pods by Nids and Orks.

As for hiding things behind the monoliths, that'll help for 1 turn; however, by turn 2 (heck even turn 1 if the psyker is can move 12") your opponent can start summoning models 12" away and practically be behind it.

Lastly - Trazyn. The most difficult part is getting him into close combat...and then surviving said close combat until it's his turn to swing. Once he does swing, each model in the opponent's force (that is the same name as a slain model) has a 50% chance to take a wound. For Daemons, they will then have a 33% chance of saving. Not too bad but not as good as you may think (especially when trying to factor in the Grimoire and/or Scorched Earth). I actually DO NOT recommend Trazyn though...especially against Pink Horrors since their Blue Horror rule (which allows them to attack after they die) could be a further death sentence for Trazyn.
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