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| Ccb Vs Ab | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Aug 14 2014, 02:13 AM (209 Views) | |
| Overlord_Tarekh | Aug 14 2014, 02:13 AM Post #1 |
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Canoptek Scarab
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Recently, I played against a pro Chaos player, and he suggested I dump as much as possible into heavy support, and make my CCB an AB and stick my kitted out OL into my warriors/ immortals. What are yalls thoughts on CCB vs the AB? Should I always go with one over the other, or is it mission dependent? |
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| Omar | Aug 14 2014, 04:30 AM Post #2 |
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Flayed One
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I love the model.. I often find it hard to choose between the 2.. Back in 6th I would have went with the AB 99% of the time.. Now in 7th I'm not so sure as the CCB got a lot better.. Although you are sinking a lot of points into it. (I run mine at 255) If you run the AB it actually leaves you with more options in regards to your HQ choice.. We have a whole section to choose from.. But its all Dependant on the mission and who you're playing.. |
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| Unholyllama | Aug 14 2014, 02:41 PM Post #3 |
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Lord
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Personally, the CCB is overpriced crap. It's resilient as heck but I find it less effective at actually destroying something than a Doomsday Ark. Just like in 6th, a CCB really is only good at destroying vehicles. In 7th, it got buffed in this area directly by the new chariot rules and indirectly by the changes to the vehicle damage table making vehicles more appealing to many. Also - I've seen too many lists online (here and elsewhere) that have the Overlord on CCB as the warlord of the army. Tactically, this is a terrible idea as there's no support for it. The model has no one to do a LOS or to have shuffle in front of him for extra protection/wound allocation manipulation. The idea, on paper, is always that if a lascannon or similar goes after the chariot, then you can take it on your Overlord's 3++ (instead of jinking for a free 4+ cover). How many other armies think "ooo a lascannon shot...i think my warlord will take that!"? At this point, having an Overlord in a Ghost Ark with warriors and run an AB or something even more powerful. You won't have to spend so much on kitting out your Overlord, he's still protected, and you can move forward with other things. Or, instead of taking a generic Overlord, you now have extra points for Orikan, Zahndrekh or Imotekh which are all better than a generic Overlord due to their special abilities. IMO, while the CCB is extremely durable, those points could very easily be spent elsewhere and probably have a greater impact on the game. Running a Warlord in a CCB has the advantage of being a durable tactical distraction; however, that distraction means that a lot more focus is on your warlord. |
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| alaric ironaxe | Aug 14 2014, 09:31 PM Post #4 |
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Deathmark
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It hardly really needs to be a question of a CCB vs a AB, you'll usually have the pts for both. However when push comes to shove, it's very easy to decide which is better overall-the AB. It's quite simply more cost effective. So much cheaper for something that's more reliable and doesn't give up a VP when it dies (in most missions). If the CCB is not your warlord, I think it's a decent pick but that means spending even more pts on HQ to have a warlord. As unholyllama mentioned having your CCB be the warlord is a bad idea, and even if he can take a couple melta and lascannon shots to the face it only takes one character or MC in CC to take him down fairly easily. Not to mention a lot of my opponents take lots of melta that would make me not want to risk my warlord to them. |
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| Unholyllama | Aug 14 2014, 09:35 PM Post #5 |
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Lord
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I'm seeing a similar trend here as well. |
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| OhLongJohnson | Aug 14 2014, 09:39 PM Post #6 |
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Cryptek
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I dont think the CCB is the best on the world...but overpriced crap seems a bit harsh to me... For me, it has its niche. Dont forget, you HAVE to fill that HQ-slot. Usually I'd like that all parts of my army do something...and sometimes a generic overlord does not do a lot, while a destroyer lord (which you can always take) does not open up a royal court. Especially against mech-armies, the CCB might be great and is a great can-opener. Of course, it depends on your gaming meta...but once I fought a list with 9 leman russ tanks and the two CCBs I had saved me that day. About the warlord: I dont think it is bad to take the CCB as warlord. I mean, shure it draws attention to the warlord, but it IS hard to kill. That means sometimes an opponent player will put a LOT of firepower into it to get it down (baited by the additional VP he would get for slay the warlord). I think it is NEVER bad to force the opponent to shoot at something thats hard to kill...because actually it means that he might neglect other targets, which are a lot easier to kill. Usually it is easier to bring down 2 AB than 1 full kitted CCB...this means by shooting at the CCB the opponent might get less VP then by shooting at the ABs. I think someone would have to try out the CCB in combination with wraiths...just to see how it works, maybe they synergize well together. Now, having that said about CCB, when you have the space in the HS-slot (sometimes that one might be filled with monoliths/doomsday arks/spiders) I would ALWAYS take an AB over a CCB. Just because the AB is so frikking cheap and puts out a lot of firepower. If having the space in the HS-slot, I would fill it first with 3ABs before even considering 1CCB.... |
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| Overlord_Tarekh | Aug 14 2014, 11:06 PM Post #7 |
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Canoptek Scarab
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That's part of my problem; I only have 1 CCB/AB. So you think it'd be wiser to fill the HS and do AB and have my OL footslog with my immortals/warriors? |
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| OhLongJohnson | Aug 15 2014, 01:10 AM Post #8 |
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Cryptek
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yes, I think you should use it as AB and spend the points elsewhere. |
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| Unholyllama | Aug 15 2014, 03:31 AM Post #9 |
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Lord
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Do you own any other heavy support options? I agree that if you have only 1, an AB will be better than a CCB; however, I am now curious to what other options you have own or have been fielding. On a side note - I would recommend a Ghost Ark (or 2) if you don't own any. They were great in 6th but even better in 7th now. |
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| Magister Jaigo | Aug 15 2014, 11:42 AM Post #10 |
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Cryptek
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A destroyer lord remains my fav hq. CCB as said has its niche. But is nor a murder machine on its own. It is good vs vehicles ans as support in cc. 2 go along well. Just 1 I do not use in competetive play. The ab however is something else. It is good and cheap. Leaving points free for say... wraiths and or scarabs. I usualy take 3 but these too work better as a pair. They are also not bad vs flyers. As of yet I do not have a flyer myself. So I only swap an ab out for fun games unsing a lith. or when fw is allowed a tesseract arc or pylons. still. 3 remain my set ammount in tournament. Fast. Resillient and now scoring. decent shooting. Decent chance to hit a flyer I just love those. Edited by Magister Jaigo, Aug 15 2014, 11:47 AM.
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| alaric ironaxe | Aug 15 2014, 04:03 PM Post #11 |
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Deathmark
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If we didn't have so many anti armor options, then yes it would be a great pick but the thing is I find I rarely need to invest pts in dedicated anti armor because of gauss. Just the other day I was up against a mech ork list with a stompa and just with my 9 warriors in a ghost ark with a cryptek with a voltaic staff I stripped 7 hull points off it in a turn. And yes it is good to make your opponent focus a lot of firepower on one tough target to keep other units alive, however a ++3 won't last long against a lot of firepower and it really sucks to give up that 1 vp for your warlord. Seems we pretty much all agree here though that even with what potential the CCB has, the AB is far better. Time and again it just works wonders for me. |
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| Overlord_Tarekh | Aug 15 2014, 04:51 PM Post #12 |
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Canoptek Scarab
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I just got a night scythe. Have 1 spyder, AB and DA. Should I use the night scythe for transport instead of HS? |
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| Unholyllama | Aug 15 2014, 05:04 PM Post #13 |
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Lord
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The largest issue with the Doomsday Ark is the limitations it has on moving (and jinking). Very powerful but very static as well. Spyders are good, cheap MC unit (since you can take 3 in a unit) and work really good to add scarab bases and cause some frustration in close combat against light infantry and light vehicles. As for a Night Scythe vs a Doom Scythe - this depends a lot. You can take a dedicated transport for a unit but deploy them separately (so if you take it for warriors, the warriors can be deployed on teh table and the night scythe is in reserve). The big thing is that you can only start a unit inside of a DT if that unit itself paid for it to be a dedicated transport. What this means is that you can easily run a Night Scythe as just a flyer and not a transport if you want. Cheapest way to get a Night Scythe is 5 Warriors which makes the difference between it and the Doom Scythe is 10pts. The DOom Scythe is one of the few low AP weapons we have which is great for addressing terminator armor and AV14. Night scythes are great support models in and of themselves but also can be used effectively for late game objective grabs/contests by deploying warriors close to objectives on the final turn(s) of the game. All that said - with your other Heavy Support options, I would definitely run your Barge as an Annihilation Barge and not a Command barge. |
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| Overlord_Tarekh | Aug 16 2014, 01:04 AM Post #14 |
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Canoptek Scarab
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I was considering putting my 5 deathmarks in the night scythe and running them around the table to an area just out of range of there marks' ability to rush them (so like 19 inches away). So you think night is better than a doom scythe? |
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