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| Destroyer Lord and Canoptek Wraiths | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Aug 20 2014, 01:38 PM (467 Views) | |
| Banshee | Aug 20 2014, 01:38 PM Post #1 |
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Lychguard
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Hello, i usually use 1 or 2 first wounds of HQ to tank hits. But after playing several games with DLord joining Wraiths, i realized that in close combat DLord with I2, 1(even 2) wounds die pretty fast. Plus loosing DLord leaves you with no Mindshackle Scarabs, no Reliable AP1 vehicle killer and no Preferred enemy for Wraiths. So does tanking really worth it for DLord in this scenario? |
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| Unholyllama | Aug 20 2014, 02:30 PM Post #2 |
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Lord
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Yes. While a 2+ save isn't perfect and will fail from time to time (or very often in terms of my Dark Eldar Shadowfield :-( ), it is still better than a 3++ save on the Wraiths. The big thing to remember is that the the D. Lord is there to tank small arms wounds from the Wraiths (bolters, laspistols, pulse rifles, etc.) while AP2 and heftier shots are deflected to the Wraiths through a 2+ Look Out Sir thanks to the D. Lord being an IC. As for combat, it's where Whip Coils come in. Having a D. Lord with 6 Wraiths (3 coils) will pretty much ensure 1-2 are in base contact which will negate a handful of attacks being done before the Wraiths and D. Lord swing. Likewise, any wounds in Close Combat can have a Look out Sir as well done to them (unless they come from a challenge). Is it unstoppable? Definitely not. Dice will fail us (just like our leadership tests) but it is still a very resilient and formidable unit that your opponent HAS to put a lot of attention towards. That is also the reason why it's often seen in pairs (2 D.Lords each accompanying 6 Wraiths) - 2 large threats moving 12" per turn is scary. Add in the fact that there's a Warscythe, all models have PE, and all Wraiths have Rending and your opponent will focus exclusively on them if they know what's good for them. In the end though, it all comes down to how lucky you are at rolling 2+. In games I've played against other Necron players running these units, the Warlord is almost always expected to die as the purpose is a strong offensive push. If the D. Lord dies, it sucks but not the end of the world as Wraiths are just that mean. |
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| Banshee | Aug 20 2014, 04:54 PM Post #3 |
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Lychguard
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So are you suggesting tanking to the end or lose 1 or 2 wounds and then allways roll LOS? I started to think that loosing several wraiths to make DLord be in full health (not tanking at all) - is not a bad idea... |
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| Unholyllama | Aug 20 2014, 05:20 PM Post #4 |
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Lord
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In my experiences, Wraiths are more effective at killing the the D. Lord; however, I haven't ran a Wraithwing unit in 7th. In 6th, Wraiths addressed the melee while the D. Lord ended up getting tied down into a challenge. With the new challenge rules, the D. Lord's ability to impact close combat has increased. The largest thing with Wraiths is that you want to make sure that the whip coils survive and are NOT the closest model when charging a unit. Charging a unit means closest model to closest model. With round(ish) bases, that means the first models will only be in base contact with themselves. So having your whip coils get in after the first one is most important to get as many enemies in base contact with them so they get to I1. The Initiative 1 is the most important aspect of the unit. Alternatively - buy new dice in order to stop rolling 1's :-) |
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| Banshee | Aug 20 2014, 07:54 PM Post #5 |
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Lychguard
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So question remains - tank to death or stop tanking at 1 or 2 wounds and start LOS from there?
Edited by Banshee, Aug 20 2014, 07:55 PM.
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| Unholyllama | Aug 20 2014, 08:02 PM Post #6 |
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Lord
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AP3+ Tank onto the D. Lord (until death). AP1& 2 - LOS to Wraiths' Invulnerable save That's been my view on the matter. - Also the goal is to be assaulting something on turn 2. If that's not happening, then try and make sure you have enough line of site blocking terrain on the board. |
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| OhLongJohnson | Aug 20 2014, 09:49 PM Post #7 |
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Cryptek
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It really depends on the opponent if you should tank or not...if you see 6 lascannons pointing at you: Dont even start to tank...it will just cost you the D-lord. Experienced players-if they have enough ap2- will shoot first with the ap2, killing the D-lord and then start shooting with small arms fire to kill the wraiths...in this szenario you have 0 advantage tanking. Also: I think it goes 2 ways..on one side the D-lord may tank the wraiths from incoming small arms fire...on the other hand the wraiths may tank the D-lord from ap1 fire... A thing I see many people forget (or not use) in the D-lord-wraith-combo, is that you always may split off the D-lord. This is a HUGE tactical advantage, because once in enemy rows you can go after 2 targets instead of just one. Obviously it does depend a lot from the opponents army. But a lone D-lord is totally capable of killing a unit of guardsmen/space marines/Necron immortals/Necron warriors without the wraiths help. On the other hand a unit of wraiths is totally capable of killing the mentioned units without the help of the D-lord....so why not kill 2 enemy units instead of 1? |
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| Unholyllama | Aug 20 2014, 10:00 PM Post #8 |
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Lord
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Short of multi-charging 2 units - I would HIGHLY recommend against trying to go solo with a D.Lord. He won't survive however much you may think he can on paper. He won't go down easily; however, 1 model at I2 against a unit at I3 or better will almost always lose long term. Theory is great but situations in each game are always different. There's strength in numbers when it comes to 40k. |
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| OhLongJohnson | Aug 21 2014, 12:02 AM Post #9 |
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Cryptek
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I dont know...in my experience D-lord has always won against small units of Spacemarines/guardsmen. Both wound D-lord on a 6...so it is VERY unlikely they will kill him.. 6 Space marine attacks with I4 are far but very far from beeing scary...same with 10 IG attacks. Of course, statistics sometimes lie...but at some point it gets so unlikely that it will hardly ever happen in a game. T6 is a very scary thing. I'm not saying charge units with powerfists in it. I say hunt down small units that lack ap2...they will go down. Also: Sometimes it really is not about long term close combats...for example the D-lord can bind a unit in CC till the wraiths finished the unit they charged. Also most enemy units that fail each CC-phase by 2 will break at some point. |
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| Banshee | Aug 21 2014, 04:20 AM Post #10 |
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Lychguard
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I would risk full-health DLord in combat with normal marines. But 2 or 1 wounds left - is another story... |
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| Olfgund | Aug 21 2014, 02:01 PM Post #11 |
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Praetorian
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I agree, high toughness (unreduced from being with a pack of T4 wraiths) and the 2+ automatic upgrade armor save will go a long way ; just have to challenge any power fist sergeant to kill them at I2 before they strike at I1. And the good thing is now that excess wounds are no longer wasted in challenges. |
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| Unholyllama | Aug 21 2014, 02:17 PM Post #12 |
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Lord
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True - but on the other hand, everyone on the outside can hit you if you're the only challenger. To further complicate things, you can't pile in if you're in a challenge, so if that sergeant with a power fist succumbs to MSS, you may not be in base contact with anyone to hit back. |
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| Olfgund | Aug 21 2014, 06:17 PM Post #13 |
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Praetorian
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Sidenotes as a salamander player and confirming with my ultramarine buddy, power fists are quite rare at our games: the huge point cost for the upgrade is not efficient considering the sergeant will likely be killed in challenge before using it. |
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| Unholyllama | Aug 21 2014, 06:57 PM Post #14 |
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Lord
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Same in my area - for me, Centurions are more of a concern than a PowerFist in a SM list these days. |
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