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C'Tan Death March List 1500
Topic Started: Mar 21 2015, 02:01 AM (667 Views)
Boski51
Canoptek Scarab
[ *  * ]
I was playing around with a C'Tan list for an upcoming tourney and this is what I came up with:

(Formation Detachment)

Conclave of the Burning One [C'tan Shard of the Nightbringer]
····Cryptek [Solar Thermasite, Staff of Light, The God Shackle, The Nightmare Shroud]
····Cryptek [Phylactery, The Solar Staff]

(Combined Arms Detachment)

Orikan the Diviner
C'tan Shard of the Deceiver
Lychguard
····10x Lychguard [10x Hyperphase Sword & Dispersion Shield]
Immortals
····5x Immortal [5x Gauss Blaster]
Immortals
····5x Immortal [5x Gauss Blaster]
Tomb Blades
····X 4 Tomb Blade [Nebuloscope, Particle Beamer, Shield Vanes]
Tomb Blades
····X 4 Tomb Blade [Nebuloscope, Particle Beamer, Shield Vanes]

What do you think-will I stand a chance against knights and elder and thundercav?

I am not very mobile and I will have a limited ability to get claim objectives, but the tomb blades should help with that. I am I crazy to think this might even work. No one around here even plays the C'Tan because they are random, and somewhat easy to kill, but in CC they should clean up. When Orikan powers up-he should be able to bust some face as well.

As always, thoughts and recommendations are appreciated.

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Banshee
Lychguard
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I don't get the idea behind outifit of conclave crypteks... Can you explain it?
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Boski51
Canoptek Scarab
[ *  * ]
Thought was that one of the crypteks tank wounds, provide the God Shackle buffs, provide invisibility, and generally keep the Ctan alive while it is getting into combat.

Does that make sense?
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OhLongJohnson
Cryptek
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Boski51
Mar 22 2015, 12:20 AM
Thought was that one of the crypteks tank wounds, provide the God Shackle buffs, provide invisibility, and generally keep the Ctan alive while it is getting into combat.

Does that make sense?
but why phylactery to the weaker cryptek and not to the tanking cryptek?

Also consider Running them in the following formation:
Tanking-tek, Shard, weak tek
This way you can LOS all shots with AP2 to the shard (instead of taking them on the cryptek who lacks an invulsave and also gets insta-gibbed by S8+ weapons).

As for the lychguard: I feel 1 unit of 10 is kinda overkill, I feel 5-7 are totally enough to fulfill most quests.
I also feel that the immortals kinda hang in the air.
Thats why I'd do the follwing:

option 1: Drop all immortals, drop 5 lychguard. (you are NOT lacking CC-power), drop the phylactery, get 10 warriors inside a ghost ark + 10 warriors footslogging next to the ark.

Option 2: hold on to the immortals, drop 5 lychguard, drop the phylactery. Get a doomsday ark for the price (idea is to take the focus off the shards and give you some long-range firepower, because at the moment your list wont do much in the first turn). Also: As you have the deceiver you can redeploy the DD-ark, which is very nice.

Option 3: drop 5 lychguard, get as many flayed ones as possible for the pointcost. Infiltrate those flayed ones. (again, takes the focus of the C´tan shards and gives the opponent something to do in the first turn)
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Boski51
Canoptek Scarab
[ *  * ]
I like the way you think! I will retool this a bit and play test the options and see what plays well. Thanks for the input!
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OhLongJohnson
Cryptek
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Boski51
Mar 22 2015, 01:55 AM
I like the way you think! I will retool this a bit and play test the options and see what plays well. Thanks for the input!
Here's some more input after rereading the god-shackles-rules

Godshackles let you pick +1 S +1 T for ANY C'tan you have on the battlefield, thats why I would do that:
I would probably not upgrade the nightbringer, but the deceiver instead!! Now you have 2 hard to kill shards instead of 1. Yes, nightbringer can still get wounded by S4, but as you have a tanking cryptek (rerollable 2+ save!) you negate those saves anyway. Also: The nightbringer can restore wounds, the deceiver cant.
Finally, against shots that really hurt the conclave formation (Ap2 shots), the +1T does help but not as much as you might think

So, by upgrading the deceiver instead of the nightbringer you get 2 C'tans that are next to impossible to kill with small arms fire (instead of just 1). This is a huuuuge advantage!.


Also take into account the following: You dont HAVE to pick orikan as warlord, you might also pick a shard as warlord. I would do that especially as orikan has a warlord trait which doesnt always help you. (eternal warrior). So, in case the opponent doesnt have instant death-weapons, I'd probably pick one of the shards as warlord to get a useful warlord trait. Probably take the deceiver as you might reroll warlord-traits this way. Nearly all warlord traits within -for example- the necron-warlord trait table are useful (especially eternal madness and implacable conqueror)


Ah, and there is another option what to do with the spare points: Drop 5 lychguard, get tomblades instead. Probably another unit of tomblades with scopes, vanes and gauss.
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Banshee
Lychguard
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Here is my loadout for the Conclave:
C'tan Shard of the Nightbringer
Cryptek (The God Shackle, The Veil of Darkness)
Cryptek (Phase Shifter, The Nightmare Shroud, Solar Thermasite)

Teleporting in (or out) gives more benefit then The Solar Staff in my opinion. PS gives you chance when you fail those AP2 S8+ Look Out Sir roll...
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Boski51
Canoptek Scarab
[ *  * ]
What are your thoughts about tossing in the Tran. C'tan at the 1850 level or even on this list (thus loosing the tomb blades)?
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OhLongJohnson
Cryptek
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Boski51
Mar 22 2015, 05:03 PM
What are your thoughts about tossing in the Tran. C'tan at the 1850 level or even on this list (thus loosing the tomb blades)?
I wouldnt. It feels like it would take away flexibilty of the list. Let the shards be the stars of the show, but dont overdo it.

I would however consider putting a veil of darkness on one of the crypteks (instead of solar staff and phylactery) (as suggested before)

On 1850 base, I would take 3 Spiders with TL particle beamers + 3 bases of scarabs instead of a transcendent shard. (if you want to add more MC..but spiders are cool).
Or you take a Doomsday ark, more tomblades or just some wraiths. There are several options (and most of them seem to be better than taking another shard)

Keep in mind that you dont have antiair. I dont know your meta, but if there are fliers you have nothing to counter them.
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Magister Jaigo
Member Avatar
Cryptek
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Oh warlord ctan. Great idea!!
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Xeksen
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Warrior
[ *  *  * ]
By the way, solar thermasite is mephrit relic, which pushes you to take 3 troops, if i remember right.
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Secundum
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Phaeron
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Indeed it does.
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Boski51
Canoptek Scarab
[ *  * ]
nice catch-just confirmed. so three min squads of immortals it is.
Here is the revised list:

(Formation)

Conclave of the Burning One [C'tan Shard of the Nightbringer]
Cryptek [Staff of Light, The God Shackle, The Veil of Darkness]
Cryptek [Phase Shifter, Phylactery, Solar Thermasite, Staff of Light, The Nightmare Shroud]

(Combined Arms Detachment) ++ Primary Detachment

Orikan the Diviner

C'tan Shard of the Deceiver (warlord-roll on the Codex list)

Lychguard
7x Lychguard [7x Hyperphase Sword & Dispersion Shield]

Immortals
5x Immortal [5x Gauss Blaster]

Immortals
5x Immortal [5x Gauss Blaster]

Immortals
5x Immortal [5x Gauss Blaster]

Doomsday Ark


If I make the CAD my primary and the formation as secondary, don't I still fall with in the 2 troops requirement but still get the relics for the formation-or is that just asking too much. If I have to take the formation as primary, then I have to use those WL traits as well. That also forces me to make the Nightbringer the WL-right?
Edited by Boski51, Mar 23 2015, 12:14 AM.
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OhLongJohnson
Cryptek
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
I'm actually not shure. I think if you take CAD as main detachment and the mephrit-burning one-formation as secundary you should be allowed to take mephrit artefacts within that secondary formation...in this case you wouldnt need the 3 unit of immortals (as your main detachment would be a normal cad). Might still be wrong

If this IS the case I would drop 5 immortals, drop 2 more lychguard and I might even drop the phaseshifter in order to get in ANOTHER doomsday ark.
(dont get me wrong: the phaseshifter is fine, but in order to get the doomsday ark you would have to open up those 25 additional points)

Also, just reminding: Take into account that you dont have to use "the god shackle" on the nightbringer, you can also use it on the deceiver. (thing I would do)


Ah, here another crazy idea:
As much as I like orikan, I have the impression he doesnt give that much to the list (together with the lychguard). Yes, they kick ass in CC and are hard to kill, but they ARE terribly slow...and what your list is missing is someone to "catch" the opponents, giving the shards the opportunity to reach them. Thats why I thought:
Why not drop all lychguard and orikan, and get 2 CCB instead? These are terribly fast, quite hard to kill and can tarpid opponents in CC till the shards come and smash their face. The CCB dont even need warscythes, they just need voidblades or hyperphase swords. Just run them bare and run them as team (2 CCB charging the same opponent)
Edited by OhLongJohnson, Mar 23 2015, 01:48 AM.
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Magister Jaigo
Member Avatar
Cryptek
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
As I read it you can take artifact on formation cryptek.
there is no restriction on needed the CAD or being primair.
Just that god shackle is cryptek only
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Boski51
Canoptek Scarab
[ *  * ]
So I played this list against my bud who is a very good Marine player (ranked in the top 5 of the ITC last year) and he played his Thunder Wolf list against me. In short I won by 1 point playing the LVO mission number 5.

I had the Orkanman and shieldguard lock up his entire army and Login Grinmare for 5 rounds of combat. The C'Tan entered combat turn 3 and Orikan powered up on turn 3 as well. I was rolling my saves like they were loaded dice (of course they were not-just looked like it).

At the end of the game, I have 5 lychguard, Orikan, both CTan and both Crypteks still on the board while he had like 2 or 3 models. It was a heck of a battle and tested this list really well.

The MVP was the lychguard-they took a ton of punishment and kept Orikan alive and kicking. The Ctan really didn't do a ton of damage but soaked up a lot of damage. The gaze of Death was ok, it took 4 or 5 models off the board while in CC which was nice. I never got to use the powers of the CTan as they were in CC the entire game. It was a good list, now I just need to see if there is something else I can do to make it a better list.
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Unholyllama
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Lord
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In my experiences, c'tans are a waste of points. They draw a lot of fire but don't do a lot of damage themselves. The randomness of their shooting attacks make them difficult to use a a truly strategic manner during this phase. I would suspect your opinion of Lychguard being your MVP will be seen more than a C'tan winning out.

With regards of making the list better (keeping in mind your desire to keep c'tans in the mix)....

...what was your thoughts around the Immortals and the Doomsday ark? Do you think the Doomsday ark is worth it or did you wish there was more mobility? Have you thought about replacing the ark with a DoomScythe?
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Boski51
Canoptek Scarab
[ *  * ]
The doomsday ark was there to draw fire away from the other units and rain a large blast S10 AP1 shot on whatever need to die. I redeployed it with the Deceivers Grand Illusion rule. It worked and caught my friend off guard. It was effective that turn only. Once everything was in combat it did nothing.

The way the game went, I placed my immortals on objectives and just happen to collect points for one unit for 3 turns. He could not kill the 5 man unit quickly enough to prevent the points. This game was a little different than most because he came to me very quickly because of his army. In a normal game my lack of mobility would have been a huge problem.

You are 100% correct about the damage output of the CTan. I noticed that very quickly-I could withstand a good amount of shots, but couldn't really kill of his army very quickly. I have actually noticed that a lot about our army. We are resilient as heck, but don't do a lot of damage compared to Eldar or Tau. Then again that may just be my lists so far.
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OhLongJohnson
Cryptek
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
As for the DDark: Obviously not much to do if everything is in CC

As for the shard: It is true, if youd replace both shards with just the same amount of pretorians youll probably have a much nastier list.
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Boski51
Canoptek Scarab
[ *  * ]
The one nice thing about the CTan and he stated this, no one will expect to see them on the table. The question is can I get them to work?

I was thinking that same thing about the Pretorians....and maybe some wraiths if I can make the room. That would be a nasty CC army that people wont think a Necron player would field.....
Edited by Boski51, Apr 2 2015, 09:55 PM.
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