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1500 ITCish Format Tournament
Topic Started: Mar 24 2015, 07:14 AM (364 Views)
seethe
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Flayed One
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
So the rules for my next tournament state that you can't bring more than one selection of a unit, including dedicated transports. I am going to do more number crunching when I can, but this is what I have been thinking about so far.

Running a CAD since I can't bring the 2 warrior units required for a Decurion

Overlord - Veil, warscythe / Or Obyron - I want to be able to redeploy them with a deepstrike if they can't quickly get into range on foot.
Cryptek - Chronomthing invuln to shooting attacks
20xWarrior blob - Adjustable depending on points

8xImmortals - Gauss
Night Scythe

7xDeathmarks
Triarch Stalker (possibly 2) - support warrior blob
7xPraetorians - Rods

Ghost Ark to support warrior blob
Doomsday Ark.

I'd like to add that I would like to work some wraiths in there if I can fenagle the points. I haven't added all this up yet but I feel like I am running into points issues by now. If you could only take one of any given unit for a take all comers Maelstrom tournament list, what kind of list would you run at 1500 points?
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Vectron
Flayed One
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
I like your thinking; not too unlike the list I was playing around with in battlescribe last night. My main issue with your list would be a lack of AA, so I'd prefer a Doomscythe over the Doomsday Ark. Other than that it looks pretty tight and veiled warriors could do a number on your opponent.

As for wanting Wraiths, I'm with you on that, but I think it's common knowledge that it's an all or nothing thing, ie. 5-6 of them, or none.

As for my own perusals on the subject:

CAD:1479


+ HQ +
Illuminor Szeras

+ Elites +
10x Deathmark
1xTriarch Stalker

+ Troops +
5x Immortal
20x Necron Warrior, Ghost Ark

+ Fast Attack +
6xCanoptek Wraiths
3xTomb blade (Scope/Beamer)
1xNight Scythe

+ Heavy Support +
1xDoom Scythe


- A few points short, but it's a case of jinking the numbers of Immortals/Wraiths/Deathmarks/Tomb blades to make it fit.

- You could put a Veil on Szeras if you want, though you probably have the mobility you need with Tomb Blades and Wraiths.

- I think Szeras is straight up better than Overlord+Cryptek. Granted his boost is random, but it's 2/3 chance of something good (and +1 str isn't bad, just situational). His real strength though is being a technomancer, and letting you reroll failed morale tests, which should make you damn near unsweepable. Also, his lance is now actually a "Lance". :D
Edited by Vectron, Mar 24 2015, 12:44 PM.
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seethe
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Flayed One
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
He would make that warrior blood that much better. Just got off shift so im going to go play with numbers. Ill have more to report back with this evening.

Also, I like the force org shenanigans taking a ghost ark dedicated transport even though fast slots were full.

I've only managed to procure 3 tomb blades, and really want to field a DDark so that will probably be where I get the points.
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OhLongJohnson
Cryptek
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First of all: I think this tournament ruleset is very cool. No unit-spamming! (although I think 2 units of the same TROOPS should be allowed :D)

Another thing you could do would be:
Use the obyron + orikan + 5 Lychguard (S&B)-combo.

For example, look at this stabbing list:
HQ
Orikan,
Obyron

Elite:
6 lychguard (S&B), obyron and orikan in here
15 flayed ones

Troops:
10 warriors (GA)
5 immortals

Fast attack:
5 wraiths, all coils

Heavy support:
DD-ark
Doomscythe

So, by turn 1 the opponent has 15 flayed ones standing infront of his door and 6 lychguard (with orikan and obyron) teleported next to him. One-two turns later, the wraiths are gonna arrive. In the meantime the DD-ark gives firesupport from the backfield and at some points the doomscythe arrives.

I have other ideas, but that would be the first :D
Edited by OhLongJohnson, Mar 24 2015, 02:05 PM.
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seethe
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Flayed One
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Sadly I don't have flayed ones, so they are out. Timing of the tournament leaves me with very little time to build any new models when I get home from work. I am not doing what I did last month (8xImmortals, 20xWarriors, Ghost Ark/DDark, 3xWraiths all in one long...longgggg night lol)

Anyways this is what I put together. I'd like to try the big warrior blob. Will still have a Ghost Ark supporting. If they shoot the ghost ark then they aren't shooting my DDark right?

Obyron
Cryptek + chronothing

20xWarrior
8xImmortal
---Night Scythe

7xDeathmark
7xPraetorians - RoC
Triarch Stalker - Gauss upgrade

Ghost Ark
Doomsday Ark

Immortals and Deathmarks can be used to assist the warrior blob after they blink with Obyron. Cryptek should make that unit pretty durable, especially with a Ghost Ark supporting it. Stalker is the only thing in the list I am meh about. on one hand if it does manage to stay in range of the warriors they will get even more buffs, but they will likely blink out of range and it will have to run just to keep up. I may swap it eventually but otherwise like how the points are falling and the setup ive got so far. Can't wait to try out Praetorians as well.

Also considering an option for Lychguard to blink in via either Obyron or a generic O Lord with the Veil. Would rather not leave my immortals foot slogging so they would stay in the night scythe. For this I would definately drop the stalker. Once again haven't run the numbers but am assuming the loss of warriors would more than make up the difference. But for now, how does the above list look?
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OhLongJohnson
Cryptek
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
I think your list might work out quite well, however there are a few things I'd take into account:

1: As appealing as the idea to teleport around a big blop of warriors might be, take into account that 20 warriors have a very large footprint and are thus quite cabable of mishaping.
2: You might consider dropping Obyron and just equipping the cryptek with a veil of darkness. It saves you nearly 100 points and gives you the opportunity to teleport out of CC (obyrons ghostwalk mantle cant do that).
3: You might reconsider the RoC on the pretorians. I myself have no experience with them, but unholy has playtested them quite a lot and seems to be tending towards voidblade
4: Why HGC on the stalker? I would take normal heatray or particle shredder. It wont help you that much from the backfield.... (and the only reason to take HGC would be improved range)



Here I wanted to post another list-idea I had. (not because I dont like your current list, but because I had already made that list before I read your last post and it would be a shame to just drop it)

I went from full-stab to next to full-shooty.

HQ:
Iluminator Szeras

Troops:
17 warriors, Ghost ark
5 immortals

Elite:
1 Triarch Stalker, Particle shredder

Fast attack:
5 Destroyers
6 Triarch pretorians (voidblades)

Heavy support:
Doomsday ark
doomscythe
3 Heavy destroyers (szeras in here)

idea:
Szeras joins the Heavy destroyers, giving the +1 on RP (and he also has a weapon that targets the same type of target). The normal destroyers stick around Szeras (within a radius of 6'', conga line and JSJ helps) to also get +1 on RP.
Both the unit of destroyers and heavy destroyers stick around the stalker to get the +1 BS boost. Take into account that BS5 with PE is incredibly powerful (you hit 35 of 36 shots).
Warriors get boosted by szeras and stick around the GA.
Immortals do backfield grabbing.
Stalker gives +1 BS to the destroyers and gives you some antihorde with its big pie plate.
Pretorians flank the opponent.
DDark gives longrange firesupport (and you also want it in your list I think :D)
Doomscythe is antiair and some additional firepower.

So, this list should develop crazy firepower for 1500 points.
Just to make my point clear:
3 HDestroyers + Szeras, within stalker bubble shooting at Toughness < 7 target inflict: 4*35/36*35/36 = 3.8 wounds (ap2)
5 normal destroyers, within stalker bubble, against T4 target inflict: 8*35/36*7/9 = 6 wounds (ap3)
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seethe
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Flayed One
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I don't have destroyers either, and am currently working (thinking every so often) on some sort of conversion for them because I dont like the white water rafting rear end that they come with lol...but that is another story.

I generally take the HGC on my stalkers to increase the range because I keep them back for the most part to assist or sacrifice themselves if anything shows up to mess with the DDArk for instance. In this list they may not be of much help. I have considered running an Annihilation barge instead and its speed would enable it to get around and provide more support. Edit: Also did I miss something on the stalkers? I thought Particle caster was small blast, heat ray melta/flamer? do they have a big pie plate option?

Oby is there to teleport, but also there to provide some teeth if they get stuck into melee, but I didn't really consider using the Veil to get away if need be. The huge footprint for DS was something I have been worried about. There are probably better options, but I am taking the high risk high reward route with this unit it seems.

Also, taking Oby out would free up some points to stick a CCB in there. If I take the CCB I wouldn't be able to take the AnnhiBarge (model restrictions :x)

What I may do is drop the warrios to 10x in the Ghost Ark and put a teleporting Lord with the immortals. I am not a fan of footsloggers without any options to move more than 6" if need be when it is a readily available option. Drop the stalker and then use the Night Scythe to fly in some S/B Lych with Oby or Orikan. With the tournament rules and the way you can sub in characters for Royal Court members, I can probably fenagle a few court members to carry some Warscythes in with the Lych. O-Lord with scythe, Obyron for a lord, and Orikan would be an absolute monster of a unit, but the points are going to get rough if I get that greedy.

I have read Unholy's posts on Praets, but like the idea of AP2 for this list. Especially at this point level, a round of shooting and one round of combat is going to hurt TEQs at STR5 AP2. I am also working (thinking every so often) on conversions for the VB/PC praets as well. Aesthetics probably play too much of a roll in my army lists sometimes...

Edit again: Been thinking about it off and on tonight when I get the chance and I am going to go with the 20xWarrior and cryptek blob this time, because normally I would just run two ghost ark warrior squads. This will give me a tiny taste of silver tide and I may learn to like it. We will see I guess. Still a week off from the tournament so I'll likely come up with some other scheme between here and there lol
Edited by seethe, Mar 25 2015, 11:27 AM.
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Vectron
Flayed One
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seethe
Mar 25 2015, 04:22 AM
I am not a fan of footsloggers without any options to move more than 6" if need be when it is a readily available option.
Just a minor observation:

I think this is a bigger issue with Eternal War missions, as they have fewer objectives than Maelstrom. In Maelstrom, if you place two objectives 12" apart along the centerline of the table, a full warrior blob is capable of holding both from round 2. Supported by a Ghost Ark and 4+RP, you should be able to control the center and about half the table with your 24" threat range. So if you are a bit clever with placing your objectives, you don't really need to move them much further than 6-12" the entire game.
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OhLongJohnson
Cryptek
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Quote:
 
I generally take the HGC on my stalkers to increase the range because I keep them back for the most part to assist or sacrifice themselves if anything shows up to mess with the DDArk for instance. In this list they may not be of much help. I have considered running an Annihilation barge instead and its speed would enable it to get around and provide more support. Edit: Also did I miss something on the stalkers? I thought Particle caster was small blast, heat ray melta/flamer? do they have a big pie plate option?

Stalker has a big pie plate option. Costs 5 points extra and is called particle shredder. Its a S7 AP4 big blast weapon.

As for footslogging, I do agree with this:
Quote:
 
Just a minor observation:

I think this is a bigger issue with Eternal War missions, as they have fewer objectives than Maelstrom. In Maelstrom, if you place two objectives 12" apart along the centerline of the table, a full warrior blob is capable of holding both from round 2. Supported by a Ghost Ark and 4+RP, you should be able to control the center and about half the table with your 24" threat range. So if you are a bit clever with placing your objectives, you don't really need to move them much further than 6-12" the entire game.

I noticed that in nearly every game I have about 1 unit sitting at an objective (my "base objective") all game long. This unit didnt need any transportation because it didnt leave the objective.
So, considering this, I think it doesnt hurt to have 1 Unit thats just footslogging and holding backfield objectives (immortals are especially good for that as they are darn hard to remove), as long as the footslogging unit isnt too expensive and doesnt have a "killing-role" (pretorians would be bad for that, for example)
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seethe
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Flayed One
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Big pie plate stalker ... mother of god (insert super troopers meme)

Last time I played with the list last night so had dropped down to a base immortal squad with a veil cryptek for backfield objectives and porting if need be. I will have a hard time dropping that crutch
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OhLongJohnson
Cryptek
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seethe
Mar 25 2015, 10:32 PM
Big pie plate stalker ... mother of god (insert super troopers meme)

Last time I played with the list last night so had dropped down to a base immortal squad with a veil cryptek for backfield objectives and porting if need be. I will have a hard time dropping that crutch
yepp, the big pie on stalker gets especially nasty if you use judicator battalion against a marked target:

S7 AP4 big pie plate, with reroll to-hit-rolls (scatter dice) and reroll to-wound-rolls? Bye-bye horde.


As for your list: Just one thing you COULD do:
If you own a skyshield landing pad (probably you dont) I'd free up points to get one into the list and put the DD-ark on top of it. Much better LoS makes it more dangerous and the 4++ invul makes it twice as hard to kill.
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seethe
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Flayed One
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Yeah man, don't have one of those either >_> I thought it was a small blast template this entire time. Going to play with the list yet again as I am interested in the stalkers again. Leaving the Cryptek/Immortal unit in the backfield with a pie plate stalker and DDark might work decently. Can probably even free up the points from the cryptek and just run the immortals as is. That would bring me up to 6 Wraiths in list one or 4 in the Lychguard list if I didn't bring the stalker.
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OhLongJohnson
Cryptek
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thing you also could do would be to drop 190 points value of warriors, immortals, deathmarks and pretorians
(for example: 5 warriors, 3 immortals, 1 deathmark, 2 pretorians) and get in a 2 canoptek spiders (TL particle beamer, fabricator claws) + 3 bases of scarabs.

Yes, the smaller units would hurt a bit, but you would get in: 2 MCs, 2 small TL pie plates, repair for your DD-ark & stalker and scarab-farming. Might be worth it.

(you would still have: 15 warriors, 5 immortals, 6 deathmarks, 5 pretorians)
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seethe
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Flayed One
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I think I am going to run with this

Illuminator sceras
oby

7 deathmarks
7 praetorian

7 immortals in night scythe
19 warriors with ghost ark support

4 wraiths with whip coils
doomsday ark

Sceraz and oby run with the warrior blob
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seethe
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Flayed One
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Have been making more changes, seems I never settle on a list until the morning before a tournament. I keep thinking that with the above list my DDArk is going to be too exposed. Latest iteration goes something like this:

Cryptek + veil and chronometer (is that basically a fancy way of saying hes holding a pocket watch? I didnt know crypteks were such gentlemen)
Oby
17ish warriors (can't remember exact number)
Ghost Ark supporting.

7 Deathmarks

Doomsday Ark
8 Immortals supporting

5 (or 6) Wraiths - whip coils
3 Tomb blades - vanes, scope, one with particle caster

Doom scythe

I figured at such low points, a bigger squad of wraiths would be much more damaging.

I also didn't want a huge chunk dependant on reserve rolls and wanted something to hang out and help protect my DDArk, so dropped the night scythe for the doom scythe and will run the immortals in my backfield on an objective with the DDArk. I still get some AA if I need it though, and pick up the all mighty death ray.

3xTomb blades are there to get on harder to reach objectives first and foremost, harass things secondary.

Warrior blob gets two teleports if needed from Obys ghostwalk and the cryptek's veil, so it also makes up for the immortal's lack of mobility. I made it a point to keep the ghost ark as their dedicated transport so that it will stay objective secured.

I really wanted to try out the praetorians this time around but don't think they are going to make the cut this time. It's ok, I will have the Judicator battalion ready to roll for the next tournament.

Another bonus to the doom scythe is that I will have 2 STR10 blasts (obviously one bigger than the other) so it won't be as painful to lose the DDArk when it happens.

I will most likely run Oby as my Warlord, however I have been toying with the idea of running the cryptek so he can peace out with a teleport(even if locked in combat) if things get too hairy, and will more than likely be challenging anything that charges my warrior blob with Oby to get the cleaves rolling. They both are there really to keep the blob mobile, and of course cryptek boosting the resilience of the group. I can also split one off that hasn't used his teleport to bring the wraiths or deathmarks along for a tactical deep strike.

Anyways, criticisms are welcome. This will be my first full necron force at a tournament. Last few times I have allied with my nids, but am trying to get away from Flyrant and carnifex spam lol. On a side note, they work really well together.

Edit: I am als trying to remember this from right before I passed out after shift, so if the numbers are off that will explain it. This is the jist of how the lists were going. I passed out some time in the middle of a Necron/Ork list. Looked at it when I woke up and wasn't entirely sure what I was thinking lol

Edit Edit: Also forgot to mention that I have been emailing my LGS to try to get a Spider waiting on me when I get home. If that happens I will do as mentioned and put the ole Canoptek Harvest in there for ultra scarab shenanigans. Sczeras may make a return to the list to pass out +1 RP to scarab and wraith blobs.
Edited by seethe, Mar 30 2015, 08:06 AM.
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OhLongJohnson
Cryptek
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The veilcryptek seems to be a good idea instead of szeras
Also switching NS for DS and have the immortals footslogging seems like a nice idea.
As for dropping the pretorians: Not shure about that, but it shure is a possibility. On a per-point-basis, pretorians do more damage than wraiths (but are squishier...so you give up killing power for resilence)
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seethe
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Flayed One
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Ill consider praets over wraith but they were going to be my fire and forget counter to wraith knights and dread knights etc. I'll trade my 230ish points while the rest of my forces dance around
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seethe
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Flayed One
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90% chance I'll have a spider when the time comes, so will probably be shifting points around to fit the Canoptek formation in. Might even bump the wraiths down to 5 (list had 6, I had another look at it lol) since the RP rolls and scarabs will make up for that last wraith. Will have to figure out what else to drop for the scarabs themselves. It will likely be ones and twos from immortals, warriors and deathmarks. I want to make sure to keep the warriors numbers high enough to justify not riding around in the canoe. If that happens I'll likely drop both HQ choices for a CCB.
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