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1500 Points
Topic Started: Mar 24 2015, 04:18 PM (483 Views)
hacker
Canoptek Scarab
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Hey Everyone,

I'd appreciate feedback on the 1500 point list I've been tinkering with.

HQ-
Overlord- Voidreaper & ResOrb
Orikan the Diviner

Troops-
10 Warriors
10 Immortals with GB
5 Immortals with GB

Elites-
5 Lychguard w/ swords and shields

FA-
3 Tomb Blades w/ particle (beamer?)

Heavy-
2 Doom Scythes

LoW-
Obelisk

I already know this list lacks serious mobility. It's decurion but Orikan falls out of the detachment. So unbound I suppose. I've play tested this but with a doomsday ark and 2 annihilation barges instead of the doom scythes and 5 immortals. They weren't doing much for me so I decided it was time for a change. Plus I figure the Scythes should assure me air superiority before death ray-ing everything the enemy apart. Orikan, the Overlord, and the lychguard wander around taking an arse load of damage and dealing it back out (3++ reroll ones and 4+ RA with rerolls for one phase from ResOrb is Outrageously resilient. I think they can reroll ones on RA too, but I don't have my codex in front of me at the moment). The Obelisk puts out a ton of S7 Tesla fire and soaks up a lot of damage. Tomb Blades turbo boost to an objective late game. All the troops form a strong fire base in my deployment zone, shooting at whatever they please, hopefully camping on an objective while they're at it. Thoughts?

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Unholyllama
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Lord
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The list works just fine as a CAD. You lose out on the +1RP from the Decurion and the Reclamation Legion buffs; however, in terms of having it battle forged instead of unbound, it works. The lychguard (with Orikan) is still VERY nasty...only the other models would be impacted by using a CAD. Technically speaking, the Doomscythes would be able to still be brought as a Deathbringer Flight formation in addition to everything else being in a CAD and still be battle forged. Also (just noticed) the Reclamation legion requires 2 Warrior units and not 2 Immortal units.

Overall - the list is pretty solid. I would recommend a few things.

1. Split Immortals from units of 10 & 5 to units of 7 & 8. This allows the firepower to be better distributed between the two groups and being 2 units, would allow you to do more damage to multiple units if needed.

2. I would, personally, switch the Tomb Blades to Gauss and use the 2pts to upgrade them to Nebula Scopes. Having ignores cover is huge given the number of things that can Jink or can get a cover save naturally. Switching them to Rapid Firing Gauss also makes the unit more versatile than just 3 blasts templates.

Beyond that, I think it's a good list. If we wanted to keep the CAD and swap out units for other things, I would recommend dropping the 15 Immortals for 10 Warriors in a Ghost Ark and then use the remaining 20pts wherever (maybe shields for the tomb blades and 1 additional warrior on foot?). I would keep the DoomScythes...they have been great in all games I've ran them thus far even w/o taking advantage of the formation rules. In addition, if you take a CAD - I recommend making Orikan your Warlord. Having Eternal Warrior is a huge help - especially before he bulks up. This also eases the anxiety around your Overlord being killed.
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OhLongJohnson
Cryptek
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I would -as unholy posted- go CAD. I'd probably go 2 times 10 warriors in GA as troops (drop immortals totally).
I would also replace the OLord with Obyron. This way you save some points and get a nice transport for the lychguard. (I'd stick both orikan and obyron into the unit of lychguard)

Finally I would organize the 2 doomscythes as deathbringer flight to get the bonus.
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Boski51
Canoptek Scarab
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I play tested the Obelisk and I wasn't too impressed with it in my meta. the Hvy 5 Tesla is nice but in the end it didn't do much damage for the cost. Is was a nice fire magnet.....it attracted losts of drop pods with melta armed guys....

The other issue might be the Doom Scythes as all you need to do is jink and then you cant use the death ray.

Just my 2 cents.....
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Unholyllama
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Lord
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The jinking thing is something that I've had concerns with myself in my games with the Doomscythes; however, I've found that running at least 2 of them have caused me less prone to jink. Yes, not jinking means they survive less; however, running in pairs keeps one alive longer. That said - my meta has moved away from intercepting Riptides and Quadguns though. If you're meta still sees that a lot then I'd try and see how they go.
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OhLongJohnson
Cryptek
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Boski51
Mar 24 2015, 06:50 PM
I play tested the Obelisk and I wasn't too impressed with it in my meta. the Hvy 5 Tesla is nice but in the end it didn't do much damage for the cost. Is was a nice fire magnet.....it attracted losts of drop pods with melta armed guys....

The other issue might be the Doom Scythes as all you need to do is jink and then you cant use the death ray.

Just my 2 cents.....
As for the Obelisk: I think most people play it kinda "wrong". The obelisk is not about its firepower...its more like a tactical object (just like a monolith for example). It has the superheavy rule (for a very cheap price) which makes it interesting for me.

Instead of just using it as fireplatform (it isnt a good one) use it offensively, force opponents to shoot at it. Thunderblitz as much as you can. Ram vehicles (damage span from 1 hit with S10+1D6 over 1 hit with S10 +1D6 + 1D3 to total destruction of the opponents vehicles) Use your 12'' movement. Push opponents off objectives (using thunderblitz).

Beeing a firemagnet has also its tactical advantage. The obelisk is much harder to kill than the same pointcost in "damaging" units (like doomsday arks, etc)...thus, if the opponent choses to shoot at the obelisk your more dangerous units will stay untouched. Win!

We often dont give credit for that firemagnet-point. After the game we think "oh, that 300 points piece just destroyed about 5 spacemarines that game"...but we often forget that the opponent might have spend several turns JUST shooting on the obelisk.
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Boski51
Canoptek Scarab
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Those are all very good points about the Obelisk. I had not really look at it from those points of view.

That's why this forum is so valuable.
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seethe
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Flayed One
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Using the Obelisk like suggested above at 1500 points is going to be awesome I think. It will take a ton of heat off of your Warriors + Ghost Arks and if you swap over to a CAD they will be objective secured (even the Ghost Arks!) which is clutch in any objective game in my experience. You can also use it to deny line of sight and fire lanes, it's pretty much a mobile building for you. Thunderblitzing onto an objective and then just sitting there, it is big enough that an enemy unit won't be able to get within 3" to contest (probably) so they will have to kill it to get it off of the objective.

Orikan + Oby + S/B Lych is probably my dream team deathstar of the codex so far in my opinion. Mobility from Oby, durability from Orikan will benefit that unit so much even with how tough they already are.

I'd also suggest not running beamers on all of your tomb blades. I have only been able to use them a handful of times, but if you are forced to jink with them they will be useless in the shooting phase with beamers. I do one beamer per 3 blades personally.
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hacker
Canoptek Scarab
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Awesome advice for the Obelisk, I never thought of thunderblitzing him before. I mostly used it as a fire magnet/LOS blocker/objective holder. What are the benefits of running Obyron over a regular Overlord (I don't have the codex in front of me at the moment)? Also should I swap the 5 Immortal squad for more tomb blades and run them all with GBs? I wanted to run them with GBs but I felt like 3 wouldn't do much, which is why I gave them the particle beamers.
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OhLongJohnson
Cryptek
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hacker
Mar 25 2015, 07:32 PM
Awesome advice for the Obelisk, I never thought of thunderblitzing him before. I mostly used it as a fire magnet/LOS blocker/objective holder. What are the benefits of running Obyron over a regular Overlord (I don't have the codex in front of me at the moment)? Also should I swap the 5 Immortal squad for more tomb blades and run them all with GBs? I wanted to run them with GBs but I felt like 3 wouldn't do much, which is why I gave them the particle beamers.
Pros obyron over your overlord:
- has a 2+ armor save
- has his ghostwalk-mantle (teleport the unit he is in once a game)
- has better WS (not thaat important)
- is better in challenges
- is cheaper

Pros (your) overlord over obyron:
- has 1 wound more
- has resorb

So, all in all, I think obyron would do just better, especially if you stick him into the unit of lychguard together with Orikan. This way you can tank with Obyron and use orikans ability (reroll 1 on saving throws) in an awesome manner: Obyron tanks with 2+ rerollable armorsave, every shot with AP2 gets conferred via LoS to one of the lychguard (LoS = look out sir).
The deathstar you form with Orikan, obyron and the lychguard is very hard to remove and also very killy.

If you have to choose between immortals or tomblades, I'd always go tomblades (but put shieldvanes on them). They are like much better, enhanced immortals. There really is no need to take immortals if you can take tomblades instead.
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seethe
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Flayed One
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He is also a monster when it comes to challenges. This is where his higher WS might come in to play, as every time his challenger misses in close combat he gets an extra attack at the initiative 1 step (Cleaving Counterblow).
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hacker
Canoptek Scarab
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With Oby's ability to deep strike once per game, should I just send the deathstar across the battlefield turn one? I feel like the lychguard are resilient enough to withstand all the shooting they would recieve. Or should I wait till the Doom Scythes come in and force the opponent to pick the lesser of two evils when firing? I think either way it's gonna suck for whomever I'm fighting.
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OhLongJohnson
Cryptek
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hacker
Mar 26 2015, 07:53 PM
With Oby's ability to deep strike once per game, should I just send the deathstar across the battlefield turn one? I feel like the lychguard are resilient enough to withstand all the shooting they would recieve. Or should I wait till the Doom Scythes come in and force the opponent to pick the lesser of two evils when firing? I think either way it's gonna suck for whomever I'm fighting.
It really depends on your opponent. Against most opponents you could probably just DS in there by turn 1, but against some opponents you want to hit them in a wave (and not one unit at a time), in this case I´d wait.

Especially against opponents who have a lot of powerful shortrange weapons (and no longrange) and wont be in range to shoot at the other part of your army, I'd wait. Just when he will be in range to shoot at different targets zapp the deathstar in and distract this way from the rest of your army.

Also, dont forget: there are many opponents that will come towards YOU...in this case it might also be helpful to wait and then teleport wherever it is tactically convenient (his backfield will be much less crowded, thus chance to mishap will be low.)


I want to mention one thing here: You can always split off Orikan and/or obyron to attack multiple targets. it shouldnt be the first thing to do, but it opens interesting new tactical options especially against MSU (multiple small units) army lists. So keep that options in mind. (especially lategame)
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hacker
Canoptek Scarab
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Awesome advice, thank you. Taking everything into consideration, I've devised a new, yet similar list.

Royal Court
Overlord w/ Voidreaper
Orikan
Obyron

Primary part of Decurion (I forget the official title)
10 Immortals w/ GBs
10 Warriors in GA
6 Tomb Blades w/GBs
5 Lychguard w/ sword&board

Deathbringer Flight (I think that's the name)
2 Doom Scythes

LoW
Obelisk

This should put me in just under 1500 if my math is correct (may not be, there's a reason I'm bombing calculus)
Pretty much the same strategy as before, but a little more mobility now without sacrificing resilience.
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OhLongJohnson
Cryptek
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consider that your list is not a legal decurion.
Fist: In a decurion you need an Overlord (within the reclamation legion). Your overlord is organizead into a royal court... he cant lead the royal court and the reclamation legion at the same time. So you would need another Olord in there

Second: a reclamation legion ("primary part of decurion" ;)) needs two units of warriors, not just one!

So, in order to organize the list into a decurion you would have to make major cuts...for example reducing the immortals to five, drop the voidreaper, drop the GA and drop some tomblades. Not shure if worth it.
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hacker
Canoptek Scarab
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Well crap haha. Thanks. I didn't think you needed 2 Olords for Royal Court and Reclaimation, that seems a bit of a poor design. I can probably drop something to take more warriors though without much of a problem (probably the Ghost Ark and a few immortals).
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