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| New (old) player, new army; List help | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Apr 4 2015, 07:17 PM (323 Views) | |
| Treelamp | Apr 4 2015, 07:17 PM Post #1 |
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Flayed One
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Hey guys, I'm returning to 40k for the first time in a long while. I've played wargames of almost every sort since I was 14-15, but I've been out of 40k specifically for a long time, I was probably back in 4th maybe 5th? I played one game over in 6th with the starter box but, not terribly many. I have had some time to look over the rules for 7th, and it looks fairly clean and easy, hopefully nothing to spring on me out of no where, but that all aside, I need list help if anyone wouldn't mind :) Available to me, I will have: - (2x) Immortal/Death Mark box - (13x) Destroyers (9x Unbuilt) + (1x) as a Lord (I really want to have a Destroyer Cult eventually, but I am doubting it's usefulness in a 1k list) - (3x) Warrior box, so 30-35 warriors available and the 6 or 9 scarab bases - (1x) Triarch Stalker - (1x) Spyder - (1x) Wraiths - (1x) Ark Ghost/Doom not sure. - (1x) Deceiver - (5x) Flayed ones I have some old pariah models and immortals that are in dis-repair that I'll eventually get put together, but I am not really worried about them right now. I'm more concerned with just having a solid list so I can build/paint it all in quick enough time to field it :-/ I had visited Warseer, but I feel like it's a bit hard to get all that much advice over there (Though there was one guy who has helped me a bit thus far). I threw a list idea out there, and with his help it's something along the lines of: - HQ - 1x Destroyer Lord (+Some odd gear) 1x Cryptek (Maybe gear) - Elites - Triarch Stalker (Probably just normal) - Troops - 10x Warriors 10x Warriors (More than likely they'll have to be min unit sizes) - Fast Attacks - 3x Destroyer 3x Destroyer 3x Destroyer EDIT: Oh it occurs to me, you might have already noticed but the formations would be the Destroyers all for a Destroyer Cult, and then a minimum sized CAD with the warriors and Cryptek. Yeah, so with that list, tooling the equipment around it comes out to pretty much 1k (My current mark). I really like the idea of the Destroyer Cult (Plus less models to paint over all), although I'm still not sure if this the best choice. I should mention that I'm planning this army at 1k to go with a friend's 1k of Imp Guard; Neither of us know terribly well what we're doing, and we're going to just try to have some fun at a tournament (Hopefully it's fun anyways! Overly competitive things often kill it for me). We're not exactly working towards making optimal list together since neither of us know what is really going on, so it's not a big concern. I'm just worried if that list is a little frail with as few units/models. It seems like the Destroyers would be easy to kill maybe? I mean they have good T and Sv, but I just am not terribly familiar with everything in the game right now. The only other concern I have with that list is not getting to use all the sweet models in the necrons list :'( There are a ton of really cool looking things. But I want to focus to limit my burden of making the models/painting and a simple list wouldn't be bad for my first foray back into the game; As long as it's not so poor it'll be a waste. So if that list isn't too bad, I think I'll stick with that; Otherwise my bigger concern is if I need to make Marks/Immortals or which Ark to build if I need to field either of those things. But if neither is going to be in the 1k I'll be able to take my time afterwards and build it up with everything over time. Thanks for the help in advance guys! :wraith: Edited by Treelamp, Apr 4 2015, 07:18 PM.
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| Secundum | Apr 4 2015, 11:30 PM Post #2 |
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Phaeron
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Build 10 Immortals and a Doomsday Ark, then use the spare deathmark and warrior bits to kitbash 10 Deathmarks. Don't use flayed Ones. Also, Destroyer Lords are far less useful than they used to be, unless you want to partner them with Lychguard. Otherwise, you have some good ideas there. |
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| OhLongJohnson | Apr 4 2015, 11:54 PM Post #3 |
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Cryptek
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Hey there, did I understand correctly that you want to run this list side by side with your friends IG list (as allies, not as enemies??) In this case I think the list could do quite well. Destroyer Cult is very deadly especially against MEQ armies. (however, your list will lack some punch against horde armies so your buddy would have to bring the necesary firepower to face that kind of opponent) The one problem with Destroyercult is that you have to take the destroyerlord...which is a quite big loss of points in just 1000 points. Your list is maybe missing some punch against targets with 2+ armorsave. So tell your IG buddy to bring some lascannons to the party. Or you stick some deathmarks in yourself (and get rid of those pesky monstrous creatures) My calculations tell me that you would have left 80 points left if you take destroyer lord without equip and cryptek without any equip. So I think the best option would be to just take the destroyerlord bare, stick him into a unit of warriors (Preferred enemy helps a lot) and get in 5 deathmarks to drop close to a juicy target. @secundum: Why shouldnt he use flayed ones? They got awesome. Yes, in his case he possibly doesnt own enough to make them work very well, but still. I just emphazise again that flayed ones are the killiest CC-units we have on a per-point basis. |
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| Secundum | Apr 5 2015, 12:53 AM Post #4 |
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Phaeron
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Because they don't work well in 1k points. Also, I disagree and say that Lychguard are, especially as they can benefit from the decurion/reclamation legion (though he's not running a decurion in this case).
Edited by Secundum, Apr 5 2015, 12:53 AM.
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| OhLongJohnson | Apr 5 2015, 01:03 AM Post #5 |
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Cryptek
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flayed ones do benefit from decurion as well! Also: I can show you maths that show that even against the lychguards sweetspot-targets (spacemarines, 3+ save units), the same pointcost of flayed ones does more damage. 4 attacks/each with shred for 13 points is huge. Against everything not 3+ save (even MC) flayed ones are waaaaaay killier than lychguard. Note that I say KILLY, I do not say resilent as thats a totally different point (S&B lychguard are stupidly resilent) As for small point games: Why shouldnt they work in them? they shred throught everything they meet in CC and are cheap. Also if he plays together with an IG player they could give tactical advantages. For example infiltrate those into a building inside the IG-player deployment zone. Now: If opponents try to get into CC with the squishy IG, the flayed ones can help. |
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| Secundum | Apr 5 2015, 01:29 AM Post #6 |
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Phaeron
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I meant the reclamation bonus-only Lychugyard and those in the actual formation get that. |
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| OhLongJohnson | Apr 5 2015, 03:46 PM Post #7 |
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Cryptek
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okay, true that they wont get "move throught cover" and the "reroll RP on 1 if around 12'' of your warlord". Move throught cover hurts a bit, but the 12'' bubble makes little to no difference for them as you are not gonna find them within 12'' of your warlord anyways (they usually infiltrate). Still, they do more damage than our regular S&B lychguard and do not need transportation (very important). Yes, they are shquishier but not to an incredible extend. Especially in decurion they are still quite hard to kill (harder to kill than regular spacemarines with AP5 or worse fire) Dont get me wrong: I like lychguard and they are incredible for their pointcost, I just want to point out that flayed ones are quite underrated because people underestimate their damage output. |
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| Secundum | Apr 5 2015, 10:39 PM Post #8 |
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Phaeron
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The Reclamation also gets a 4+ RP even without the 12" bubble. |
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| OhLongJohnson | Apr 6 2015, 12:03 AM Post #9 |
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Cryptek
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they get 4++ RP from the decurion, not from the reclamation legion. That means flayed ones within a decurion (you can field them easily within decurion) do also get the 4++ RP. |
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| Treelamp | Apr 6 2015, 02:59 AM Post #10 |
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Flayed One
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Well this escalated quickly! I am very glad I came here, it's great to see the community is active enough to be able to give advice to new players, I know I tried over on Warseer and it was.. not nearly as easy to get responses. So thank you for that. It's also a nice discussion to look over right quick, and great food for thought, but that aside, for the list specifics: The core of what I posted will remain the same, which should be 920 pts with no equipment for characters. And while I love the suggestion to take a unit of D-marks, their basic cost is greater than the remaining 80, so I can't really bring that to a 1k limit tournament :( I'm currently trying out the force against my IG partner, just to get us into the game and some experience right now so that's cool. I opted to take for the remaining 80 points: Voidreaper & Phase Shifter on the D-Lord, and the Chronomajigger on the Cryptek. I was mostly motivated to fill the points. I might see if the Flayed ones are any good, but I'm not sure right now. |
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| Secundum | Apr 6 2015, 03:52 AM Post #11 |
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Phaeron
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Really? That's good to know-thought it was just the Legion. On the subject of Voidreaper-awesome weapon. Last game I had was against another Necron player running all 3 C'tan Shards. The Transcendent fell to Hunters from Hyperspace in a single round of shooting, while Voidreaper allowed my Warlord to cut the Nightbringer to ribbons. The Deciever fell to massed shooting from Warriors and Immortals. |
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| OhLongJohnson | Apr 6 2015, 05:34 AM Post #12 |
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Cryptek
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yepp you are right, sorry bout that xD, Dunno why I thought it was 80 points....its 90 of course. As for flayed ones: In such a small unit (just 5) Id see them more as a tactical piece. As far as I understand, you are gonna play together with your IG buddy? Then you could infiltrate the flayed ones into a ruin or building in his deployment zone and protect him from opponents that want to get into CC with your friends troops. Ah, on a sidenote, here a totally different approach for your list: Drop the destroyercult and get a cryptek-destroyer deathstar in. (about 5 destroyers, joined by a cryptek with cronometrum). This will give you very much punch (and survivability) and you still have lots of points to spend elsewhere. 5 destroyers should give you enough ap3 fire in a 1000 points game. Here a list basing on that principle: HQ: Cryptek, cronometrum, veil of darkness Troops: 10 warriors 10 warriors Elite: Triarch stalker with particle shredder (horde kill!) 5 deathmarks Fast attack: 6 Destroyers, 1 of em heavy. (Cryptek in here) Heavy support: 3 Heavy destroyers So, lots of AP3 due to the cryptek-destroyer deathstar (which is very hard to remove and can teleport once a game). Also quite a lot of AP2 due to the heavy destroyers. Stick em around the stalker (possibly behind it) to get cover. Use JSJ. (stay behind the stalker, move out of the stalkers shadow in movement phase, shoot, jump back into stalkers shadow in assault phase) Deathmarks take care of 1 prime target, for example MCs. Stalker with particle shredder provides nice anti-horde. 20 warriors are the base of the army. Edited by OhLongJohnson, Apr 6 2015, 07:26 PM.
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| Treelamp | Apr 19 2015, 10:54 AM Post #13 |
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Flayed One
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So, I've played two proxy/mock battles so far, and this time I switched up the list a slight bit to see how other units felt. - HQ - 1x Destroyer Lord (+Hyperphase Sword, Phase Shield) 135 1x Cryptek (Chronotech) 90 - Troops - 10x Warriors 5x Immortals (Tesla) - Fast Attacks - 3x Destroyer 3x Destroyer 3x Destroyer 3x Wraiths (No upgrades) 2x Spyders (+Particle doojiggers) 3x Scarabs If I counted correctly, this list comes out to a full 1k points. I took out the Triarch Stalker because the +1BS I feel is wasted with such a small force that is mostly Destroyers which are busy dancing on the other side of the board. I also really badly want to paint scarabs, so I wanted to include them in my list! So with this revision, I ended up with the Destroyer Cult, the smallest CAD ever and the Canoptek Harvest. In the game I played with this list, we only got to like turn 3-4 before we had to call it, but I had only lost like, 3-4 scarab bases (All made during the game of course) a wraith and a few odd wounds on my units here and there. I also tried to deep strike my D-Lord + 1 unit and they got a mis-strike, but luckily it was just re-reserve them. The scarabs tried to take on one of my friends tanks, and they nearly killed it with 5 bodies (20 attacks), but they came up just one 6 short of a dead tank. Likewise a single unit of Destroyers spent two turns unloading into a battle tank with AV14 front, and I only got 1 glancing hit even with all of their re-rolls for failed hits and failed armor pens. I liked the spyders, and yeah I know I could drop one of the particle lazors for whips on all three wraiths. I probably would next match. My friends IG seem to be having a rough time though as of right now. Almost as rough as me trying to stay awake right now. Sleepy time. :wraith: |
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| Banshee | Apr 19 2015, 01:46 PM Post #14 |
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Lychguard
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You can have only one Spyder in Canoptek Harvest. |
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| Secundum | Apr 19 2015, 03:08 PM Post #15 |
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Phaeron
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It doesn't really matter. He has here, his primary detachment (Destroyer Cult), an Allied detachment (Cryptek, both troops, and a Spyder), and a formation (Canoptek Harvest). All Battleforged still. =) |
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| Banshee | Apr 19 2015, 05:42 PM Post #16 |
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Lychguard
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Yeap. But second Spyder don't get any benefits of formation and is standalone unit.
Edited by Banshee, Apr 19 2015, 05:43 PM.
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| Secundum | Apr 19 2015, 06:10 PM Post #17 |
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Phaeron
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No, but it can still spawn Scarabs, and it can shield the one providing the bonuses from enemy fire. |
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| Treelamp | Apr 19 2015, 07:12 PM Post #18 |
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Flayed One
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Whoa really? Only one spyder? But I thought the Harvest required you to have a Spyder selection from our book, which allows for up to two more spyders purchased with it? Otherwise wouldn't it list a restriction that said "The Spyder unit may only have a single model." or something to that effect? I just looked over the DE: Homunculus special book with like all formations, and they all state in the restrictions when they are forced to have certain unit sizes. Unless they only say it when they are breaking the normal restrictions and have to state that the unit can specifically break the rules? Also just to clarify, I'm allow to make the Warriors+Immortals+Cryptek into a CAD right? Because you called them an Allied detachment, and I thought I was bringing a CAD. Is that not what's happening here? Also for the sake of argument, I can make any of these my primary detachment right? But the Warlord has to be from the primary one, right? Edited by Treelamp, Apr 19 2015, 07:15 PM.
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| Banshee | Apr 19 2015, 07:35 PM Post #19 |
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Lychguard
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Reread canoptek formation. There are no unit of spyders, but just spyder. |
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| Treelamp | Apr 20 2015, 07:48 AM Post #20 |
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Flayed One
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Ah, so there is a difference when they state unit or not (So just a single model). I guess that's clear enough, although potentially confusing, if you don't know they are using those specific terms, good to know though. By the way, just to make sure I'm not screwing up before I attempt to go to any tournament, these were the requirements posted.
I was up at another hobbyshop today, and I heard that sometimes tournaments will restrict the number of formations. But they just said it has to be Battle Forged FOC, as in to say, it's not unbound, right? I'm pretty sure the force fits the requirements as of right now, but best to make sure. Edited by Treelamp, Apr 20 2015, 07:51 AM.
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