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1000pt Tournament list breakdown
Topic Started: Apr 26 2015, 01:04 PM (241 Views)
lacman96
Food
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This is my list that I ran at a semi-competitive tournament at my local gaming group. (It had 2 victories and one defeat and achieved second overall)
My aim for this topic is to breakdown the list and find weaknesses, tweaks to the list and to improve how the list performs.

HQ
D-LORD with void reaper, phase shiftier, res orb

Elites
Triach praetorians X5

Troops
Warriors X12

warriors with ghost ark

Canoptek harvest formation
Spider
Scarabs
Wraiths with whip coils X4


1003p total

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Akar
Destroyer
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To me, the biggest issue I see is the inclusion of the Canoptek Formation. Assuming that the DLord went with the Praetorians, you really had too much of an assault element for this points level. The list appears to be one sided, relying on the Praetorians and Wraiths to do the bulk of the damage.

Since you're running a CAD, Wraiths on their own probably would've been a better option. Use the points to bulk out the Necron Warrior on foot and/or grab a 2nd HQ for the foot squad. I'd put a Cryptek w/chrono in there, or if the tourney was assault heavy, a Lord with an Orb would've worked.

What can you tell us about the game you lost? Might help pick apart what went wrong.
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lacman96
Food
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The 3 matches were tau, the new khrone slaught cult (i think thats what its called) basically stuff dies BLOOD POINT and then a slaanesh list.
the games were an imperial fist one hold both objectives, loot and salvage, and mailed fist.

Basically the Dlord goes where he is needed usually with the wraiths but sometimes with warriors while wraiths come in from reserve and then the spider gives the reanimation to the wraiths and then it can be re-rolled once, especially when approaching a tau gun-line. That was the first game and the reanimation saved the wraiths I didn't lose a single one but took a wound, after 60 shots form fire warriors, a riptide with the burst cannon and 2 missile sides.

The game I lost was against the slaanesh list. a keeper of secrets as warlord, two chariots, 10 seekers, 30 daemonetes 2 squads of 15 that deepstrike. and a soul grinder with mark of nurgle at the back. the game type was altar of war mailed fist. My ghost ark was blown up by a lucky battle cannon shot and my warriors failed to bring the seekers down (which allowed for the reserves to deep strike without scattering within 12inch) but with all the ruins i wasn't able to get line of sight to the daemonetes and they burst through the cover and it was a slow grind down on the warriors the keeper of secrets tied up my dlord and wraiths after they dispatched both chariots, and i was able to knock it down to 3 wounds. But end of turn five my last warrior and scarab base were hit by 5 rending hits.
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Akar
Destroyer
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Well, the DLord with the Wraiths is not good. Not sure if you're aware they move differently now, so it just slows down the entire unit. Most people who run a DLord Deep Strike him with Praetorians so they can get the most out of their shooting on the turn they Deep Strike.

The issue with the Canoptek formation isn't how much damage they can take, but how much damage it can do. Even with your shooting, I don't think that you would've done well against the Slannesh list. It was just too many bodies, despite the terrain.

At higher point levels, the 'Tax' of the Spyder and the Scarabs really could be used elsewhere, which is what I think hurt you. That said, I think I would've had a problem with that Slaneesh list.



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Olfgund
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Praetorian
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Akar
Apr 27 2015, 06:31 AM
Well, the DLord with the Wraiths is not good. Not sure if you're aware they move differently now, so it just slows down the entire unit. Most people who run a DLord Deep Strike him with Praetorians so they can get the most out of their shooting on the turn they Deep Strike.


True about the Dlord slowing down the wraiths, but then again:
the wraiths in a canoptek swarm tend to be already slowed by the spyder if one wants to keep the formation benefit (RP normally)
You can play with the runs and starting deployed positions to mitigate the speed difference

it's the last movement prior to the charge that will become an issue as the Dlord will not be able to both run (if needed) and follow the charge

Not sure I would run it on a regular basis but the wraiths sure would benefit from PE and added AP2 attacks
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lacman96
Food
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Hmm okay, then what changes would you suggest to the list?
i.e what units should i take instead of the canoptek harvest?
i have 52 warriors 2 overlords 3 lords, 1 d-lord, cryptek, command barge/annihilation, monolith, 4 wraiths, 9 flayed ones, 5 death marks, shard of night bringer, 3 destroyers 9 scarabs, 5 lychguard, ghost ark, doomsday ark spyder. I'm on the look out for old skool praetorians rather than the new ones.

Just as a side note unless i'm playing guard, i always run a melee warlord.
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Akar
Destroyer
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In a CAD, still take the Wraiths.

You can't go wrong with more Warriors on that ground unit with or without a Cryptek. The Deathmarks or Destroyers would work just fine. If you have the Flayed Ones, a small unit of those are also great since, they can go after an objective thats in the middle ground as well as repel enemy infiltrators from getting close. I just wouldn't recommend them since you already have the Praetorians and Wraiths.

What you're really missing is a unit of Immortals. In either a CAD or Decurion, these guys are great because they're not as dependant on being near the Warlord as other units are. Most of the time you're going to want Gauss on them, but there are times when Tesla is more appropriate. At this points level, it's Gauss for sure.
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OhLongJohnson
Cryptek
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Akar
Apr 29 2015, 04:11 AM
In a CAD, still take the Wraiths.

You can't go wrong with more Warriors on that ground unit with or without a Cryptek. The Deathmarks or Destroyers would work just fine. If you have the Flayed Ones, a small unit of those are also great since, they can go after an objective thats in the middle ground as well as repel enemy infiltrators from getting close. I just wouldn't recommend them since you already have the Praetorians and Wraiths.

What you're really missing is a unit of Immortals. In either a CAD or Decurion, these guys are great because they're not as dependant on being near the Warlord as other units are. Most of the time you're going to want Gauss on them, but there are times when Tesla is more appropriate. At this points level, it's Gauss for sure.
I do agree with most...however I disagree about the immortals. Tomblades would be better!
In everything (Except objective secured) tomblades are really just better immortals. Slap shieldvanes on the tomblades and you get for just 3 points more (than immortals):
- T5
- insane mobility
- relentless
- hammer of wraith (sometimes useful)
- twinlinked weapons
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Akar
Destroyer
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OhLongJohnson
Apr 29 2015, 08:30 PM
I do agree with most...however I disagree about the immortals. Tomblades would be better!
This largely depends on the player. Based off the original list, it would appear that the rest of his force would be advancing on the enemy. While I agree that the TBs are better in most aspects, he doesn't need another unit that is going to be up front, he would more than likely need a unit that would do fine in the back and would succeed in being unsupported. On his lost, I don't see the Warrior units separating to front and back of the field.

The preference comes from having a unit that can support up front, and then be able to move back if needed vs. the unit in the back that wouldn't threaten the enemy as much. Since he is running a CAD, having that ObSec in the back is going to force his opponents to have to put a little bit more into should he even choose to deal with it. If he wants to leave the Warrior units on the backfield, then yeah go TB. The concern about lack of AT would still be there though.

Edited by Akar, Apr 29 2015, 08:45 PM.
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OhLongJohnson
Cryptek
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well, yeah, but putting tomblades up front is individual decision, nobody forces you to do so. You can still run them behind...their big advantage over immortals is that they have the mobility at their disposal, which immortals dont have.

It has happened now several times in this forum that somebody said things like "they are mobile, so they will go first row" or "the big gun is a disadvantage, because it makes you stay and shoot (Doomsday Ark discussion)"...I cant agree with those, an additional option is never a negative point. It just gives you additional tactics, it never takes away tactics from you. So, while I agree that tomblades excel at going first row or linebreaker, you dont HAVE to do that. If it fits better your tactic, just sit behind with them. They will still be harder to kill than immortals (t5 and jink) and will still have better guns than immortals.

So, the only real downside they have compared to immortals (in a cad) is the lack of objective secured...but I think the capability of last-turn-grabbing an objective cruising 36'' over the board makes up for that.
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