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1000 / 1500 Reclamation based Decurions; For sgc8647
Topic Started: May 27 2015, 04:22 PM (198 Views)
Akar
Destroyer
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SGC, here are both lists that I run on pick up games!

1000
Zahndrekh
18 Warriors
18 Warriors
7 Immortals (T)
5 Tomb Blades (SV,N,PB)
11 Flayed Ones

I'm not normally a fan of Tesla, and oddly enough, this book has made it easier to implement them. On this list you could EASILY switch to Gauss if that's your preference, but you're still going to have 36 Warriors to go through. This is one situation where I would put Zahndrekh in with the Immortals. It's 60 models, everything with a Gun has 'Move Through Cover' and 'Relentless', so it's tougher than nails for most armies to deal with. If your opponents won't play against you, then you're still able to take all this as a CAD. On 1k, the loss of the +1RP isn't that big of a deal because you still have 60 Models for your opponent to chew through. It's as a CAD, that the loss of the Reclamation bonuses and the board control/freedom is really felt. At least that's been my Experience. IF you do run it as a CAD, Szeras is a good swap and you can add an Immortal to get the 4+ back if you prefer that.

1500
Zahndrekh
19 Warriors
16 Warriors
16 Warriors
9 Immortals (T)
9 Immortals (T)
5 Tomb Blades (SV,N,PB)
10 Flayed Ones
10 Flayed Ones

So you can see that this is an expansion on the 1k list, and functions pretty much the same. Zahndrekh goes with the 19 Warriors now so they can get the most out of whatever ability he copies. Gauss Immortals start to hurt you a bit, since they're usually in the back objectives and firing through the Warriors. If you're going to have them out on the flanks of the Warrior blobs, then you could go Gauss. As I've been stuck with Hammer n Anvil Deployments a lot lately, I tend to fill up my front line fairly well.

This list also does fairly well as a CAD, but that largely depends on your opponent optimizing his 1500 point list. Example: I offered to play a guy and he said he didn't want to play any Nightscythes or Wraiths. I told him I didn't have any and then he said I don't want to play a Decurion either. So I said fine as well and brought this as a CAD. He still brought an Invisi-Grav-star, and Drop Pods leaving me nothing to counter it. I still won, and it was a Narrow game, but I hope you get my point. If he's going to bring a fluffy/friendly list, then this can be one as well w/o going to a Decurion.

NOTE: Szeras doesn't work well as a substitute here since you need to keep models within 6" to be able to gain the buff, which is too unmanageable late game. However, dropping some Warriors / Immortals and ADDING him as a 2nd HQ and buffing the Warriors that he and Zahndrekh are in is pretty effective if you go CAD.
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Akar
Destroyer
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Oh, I forgot to put this in.

1500
Zahndrekh
100 Warriors

50 pts left over, which I'll could run a Lord, Tomb Spyder, or Lone Destroyer or Heavy Destroyer. I plan to just run under the points since I see no reason to give up First Blood or the additional VP for something that won't do a whole lot.
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Treelamp
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Flayed One
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I like it. I haven't given the Flayed Ones a go yet, do you normally deploy them or deep strike? I feel like playing with Flayed Ones would require a few games before I really "Got" how to use them that well ;D

Seem like fairly decent list though, and fun enough to play. Gosh, Necrons look awesome almost regardless of what you take! Such a sweet army. I also prefer Tesla on my Immortals, partially because I like rolling 6s, and because I'm doing the conversion where you cut the rods out of the Heavy Gauss the new Immortal kit comes with to replace the normal green rods on the Warriors, so I am ruining all my Gauss anyways lol.
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Akar
Destroyer
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Deep Strike is dead IMO. Most of this is in the 'Flayed Ones' thread so I won't go into much more here. It was great last edition with Zahndrekh, because they could benefit from 'Ethereal Interception' and Deep Strike in Response to your opponent bringing stuff in, and then you could have Zahndrekh give them 'Furious Assault' before they charge. I'm not saying there wouldn't be situations where you would want to Deep Strike them, and you still have the option to. I just can't see any reason to if you're running a Decurion.

One of the other guys I know does DS a big group of them, but he runs a faster army than I do. I think he runs a DLord DS some Praetorians in, with Wraiths and Tomb Blades on the field. So all of that in the face, and then FO's show up for the sheer shock value would be fun.

Currently, I use them to Infiltrate, usually right in front of the Warriors. This puts them in range of the Warlord to benefit from Re-rolling 1's, and provides a cover save to everything behind them. So they're entirely frustrated because shooting the Flayed Ones has ZERO impact on my shooting. If he shoots the Warriors, then they're going to have Flayed Ones breathing down their throats. For me, it's easy because its a slower, more lethal tactic of how Scarabs used to work when they were Jetbikes. Can't Ignore them, but don't want to deal with them.

Lately, they haven't been seeing combat. They're that hated. I'll even admit that when I forced a Tau Riptide to charge 5 of them, lose 2 wounds, fail combat, and then get swept, I did a little happy dance. The other 2 games I've had where they didn't see combat were because they actually broke from shooting. They still did their job because starting on T4 was when he STARTED to shoot my Warriors. The other game was a Hammer n Anvil vs. Skitarii. Well those 30" firing guys just kept moving on back and picking me off.
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Treelamp
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Flayed One
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Akar
May 28 2015, 06:25 AM
Deep Strike is dead IMO. Most of this is in the 'Flayed Ones' thread so I won't go into much more here. It was great last edition with Zahndrekh, because they could benefit from 'Ethereal Interception' and Deep Strike in Response to your opponent bringing stuff in, and then you could have Zahndrekh give them 'Furious Assault' before they charge. I'm not saying there wouldn't be situations where you would want to Deep Strike them, and you still have the option to. I just can't see any reason to if you're running a Decurion.

One of the other guys I know does DS a big group of them, but he runs a faster army than I do. I think he runs a DLord DS some Praetorians in, with Wraiths and Tomb Blades on the field. So all of that in the face, and then FO's show up for the sheer shock value would be fun.

Currently, I use them to Infiltrate, usually right in front of the Warriors. This puts them in range of the Warlord to benefit from Re-rolling 1's, and provides a cover save to everything behind them. So they're entirely frustrated because shooting the Flayed Ones has ZERO impact on my shooting. If he shoots the Warriors, then they're going to have Flayed Ones breathing down their throats. For me, it's easy because its a slower, more lethal tactic of how Scarabs used to work when they were Jetbikes. Can't Ignore them, but don't want to deal with them.

Lately, they haven't been seeing combat. They're that hated. I'll even admit that when I forced a Tau Riptide to charge 5 of them, lose 2 wounds, fail combat, and then get swept, I did a little happy dance. The other 2 games I've had where they didn't see combat were because they actually broke from shooting. They still did their job because starting on T4 was when he STARTED to shoot my Warriors. The other game was a Hammer n Anvil vs. Skitarii. Well those 30" firing guys just kept moving on back and picking me off.
You mean just for Flayed Ones right? Because I've used it with my Destroyers before and it seems pretty cool.

Also the "in plain sight" Infiltration is not something I thought about. Granting cover from nothing is a pretty cool idea, and forcing people to make hard choices is usually a great idea! So that's cool, I might have not really thought of that before (Although maybe, since I've been seeing 'Nids play and this is a common idea for them).

What about using the Infiltrate + Reserves for Outflank? Does that have any merits, or is it just wasted time. Obviously I see not doing that if you primarily like them as a screen, but just wondering if people ever use infiltrate in this way.

Also when you refer to Turn 4, saying T4 can be really confusing, because Turn =! Toughness.
Edited by Treelamp, May 28 2015, 06:34 AM.
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Akar
Destroyer
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Yes, I meant with the FOs. Anything that shoots is still worth DSing. Yes, I meant Turn 4 in the example above.

Really surprised at how many people think that because you can Infiltrate closer that you should. I can't tell you the number of Vindicare Assassins I've killed because 'OMG he has to have Cover to live!'. Tau have been doing it for Years, infiltrate a full unit of Kroot in Front of the Fire Warriors, to potentially buy you another round of shooting.

As for Outflanking, it's pretty much the same as DS with Flayed Ones. Yeah you don't have to worry about being clumped up, but your odds of getting the Wrong table edge are almost as bad as getting a bad scatter. No Mishap, but you STILL can't assault. I might do it if I was on a Hammer n Anvil Deployment vs a Static army, like AM. I really wouldn't want to give up that cover save against that army anyways. It's still better left to units that actually shoot.
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Prot
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Immortal
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The list to me is very... typical. I don't see huge deviation from the norm in this list except for the mass of Flayed Ones which I have said many times, I'm a fan of. However, if I had one major concern with your list it's the lack of heavy hitters.

Necrons are good at survival, but not so good at hitting hard and fast. What I personally would do is swap a unit out for something that hits hard.... I think it's going to be a tough go against some Deathstar type games.
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Akar
Destroyer
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Thx for your input Prot, but my post here was because SGC had asked for them. I'm not usually a list builder guy and a huge fan of TAC lists. We have all week to make lists, why add more time to the LGS pick up games by writing lists when you get there. These are my current 'evolutions' of these points values and haven't met a game where I've needed to change them yet. My 1750 and 1850 lists are changing after every game I get in with them. My 1850 just took a huge change by dropping a 4th unit of Warriors to get in more Flayed Ones and another unit of Tomb Blades.

I don't see many Necrons using Reclamation based lists. When my opponents look at my list and DON'T see Wraiths they get a bit of relief until they see it's still a Decurion. 'Typical' lists would be the expected minimum Decurion to squeeze in 1-2 (in any combination) Canoptek / Judicator / Destroyer Cult Formations. Those lists usually contain statements like 'Tax' or 'Minimum required XXX'. Those are the lists that I audibly sigh when I see, not because it's effective. It is very effective, but also predictable/expected. None of the units on these lists are a tax.

I'm not saying this list is without it's problems. It does have some Weaknesses.

1) Mobility. While I've only had 3 small games with the current Eldar, even in the last Edition the 'Battle Focus' rule where they can shoot then run has proved to be the most frustrating thing for this style of army. Dark Eldar are similarly tricky to get near. Skitarii and Tau are also frustrating and I have to take the additional rounds of shooting before I can catch up to them. In the games where I have run the Ghost Arks, it helps a little, but I end up blocking fire lanes so it's a fickle trade off. I think Monoliths will help with Mobility issues, but until I get some again I won't be playtesting it anytime soon.

2) Psychic Powers. Just have to grin and bear it, but this phase pretty much just hoses us against psychic reliant armies. Invisibility being the big one. It's been problematic against Harlequins since they both deny most of my shooting AND are mobile. Even the GK with a Psylencer Purgation unit, just mowed me down pretty hard just by getting 'Force' off.

3) Flyers. More of an irritation than a problem. There is such a huge ground presence here that I can ignore pretty much any Flyer. The only ones that cause problems are the Transport ones (BA/SW), and that's because of what's in them and not the flyers themselves. I've found that those flyers are pretty good at surviving anyways with Jink. It would be less of a problem if I ran the Tomb Blades as Gauss, AND managed to get a Skyfire Objective against a game where I saw one of them.

4) Heavy Hitters. Yes, there is a COMPLETE lack of anything AP3 other than the lone Staff on Zahndrekh. I have yet to have a game where I find this an issue, as the sheer volume of fire works well enough. Zahndrekh gets 'Target Priority' on Turn 2, and usually that stays for the remainder of the game. 2+ saves were always a problem with Necrons since we have to commit some considerable points to bringing AP 2+ stuff. Terminators can't sweep, so they're not a huge issue even when they make combat, Dark Eldar only need to fail 1 on their Shadow fields to make them go away. Any 2+ Cover saves are negated by the Tomb Blades (They're usually high priority targets.) Now that Gauss wounds on a 6 as well, I see no need to take any 'Heavy Hitters' to deal with the 4 T8 models in the game at the moment (not counting any FW).

Only other thing is Deathstars. Deathstars are going to be a problem no matter what list is brought, that's the point of Deathstars. I've never agreed with the tactic, so will never run it, and I deal with it the best I can. In Maelstrom missions they've not even been an issue, because getting VP's / Objectives isn't going to prevent me from getting VP's. Relentless gives me a HUGE amount of board control, so even the Assault based Deathstars have to contend with being charged first, and it's tricky to get an assault off. When they do, they STILL only get the 1 unit, and pretty much all of these units are cheaper than any Deathstar, and then still have to contend with the rest.

EDIT: Forgot to add that while I'm not currently going to any events, It's something I have been looking into. I have no issue taking either of these lists to events, and I'm more irritated by the current 'edition' of the Tournament scene and finding one that's current vs. ITC/NOVA/Adepticon.

Edited by Akar, May 28 2015, 03:08 PM.
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Prot
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Immortal
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Ah, I didn't know you just posted the list for.. someone to look at.

I'm agreeing with a lot of your thoughts, but I'm not sure about Reclamation not being in play often? Maybe it's just my area. But if you admittedly aren't doing events, that could be why... I stopped using Decurion to stop the whining.

To be quite honest I forced myself to try every aspect of the formations. I think I've almost done them all. Some are surprisingly disappointing to me, and some I confess I keep cutting from my lists that look good on paper...

But the Reclamation is the heart of the Decurion. Are you saying you see a lot of lists that don't use reclamation but include Canoptek Harvest, or one of the others you listed?

I keep hearing moans but I see what some people bring to play against Necrons and a lot of it is just poor match ups.
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Akar
Destroyer
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I'm not going to events yet, but I've never wandered away from watching the results, games, batreps, etc. Most of the moans are from players who've netlisted, and can't understand why their Uber-army isn't going to remain Uber. Canoptek Harvests and Destroyer Cults screw with the Meta. It was no different when IK's came out, and the same when WK's changed to the level their at now. I've been fortunate that most of the Eldar Players I know won't even run the WK's themselves. I know that won't be the case if I jump back into the Tourney scene.

I think I've said it here already, but I let my opponent choose to play Decurion or not, I show them my list first then let them decide if they want to play it. If they don't then I ask if I can play Unbound to keep the Reclamation Legion. If not, then I show them the exact same list as a CAD. It's a bit more challenging and it can not be fun, when my opponent still chooses to play with all his options (Invisi-star). Meh either way, I get to roll dice.

In any list, not just applied to Necrons, when I see or hear the word 'Tax' I almost cringe. There is an attitude toward units that are 'required' so don't see much use in game because they want a bonus for another certain unit. Most notable is the Canoptek formations where they're taking the Min scarabs to run Max Wraiths. Add in the Decurion and the Wraiths are doing all the work. It's a valid tactic, but I think the mindset is flawed. I strongly feel that the formations are to reward players for running specific units they prefer, rather than something for players to abuse.

My favorite thing is the Reclamation Legion, and if it weren't for people having a stick up their rear about 'Unbound', I'd run that with my choice of whatever units. It's the most powerful thing in the whole codex, and I don't mind giving up the +1 RP and Obsec, if I could just take Stalkers or Wraiths or whatever really. Only those that KNOW me think I'm up to something, when Im not. I just want to try other units out w/o resorting to a CAD all the time.

Edited by Akar, May 28 2015, 05:33 PM.
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sgc8647
Flayed One
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Tks for the list posting Akar.

I too have always been a big fan of the Silver star (a good balance between immortals and Warriors)

I was mostly interested in the amount of troops you were running / nbr of models per unit and your counter cc unit you were using.

the last two 1k tourney i went to was with Szeras and i was ok with having all my necron with 1 model away from him.

yes it meant that i sufferent a bit more from blast / flamer template but the +1 RP was more than justifying it
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Akar
Destroyer
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No worries.

Szeras is definitely one of thos guys who shines at lower points,and it's easier to manage the buffs with fewer units. Around the 1500 pt mark, he balances out. Over that, I have trouble squeezing him in since he's really only good for turning a unit into an effective elite at that point.
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sgc8647
Flayed One
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Agreed in non decurion one would have to roll for Implacable Conqueror Warlord Trait in order to get a relentless bubble. A silver tide list is soo much better in Decurion.

Hence the reason why in my CAD 1k list i am leaning so much on Szeras
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