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Thoughts on these Lists?
Topic Started: Aug 10 2017, 12:47 PM (172 Views)
Vipoid
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Immortal
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I've got two similar lists and I'm looking for thoughts on which is better and on the idea in general:

List 1
Spoiler: click to toggle


List 2
Spoiler: click to toggle


In both cases, each Destroyer Lord will charge up the field with their squads of Wraiths and Scarabs while the Heavy Destroyers will remain back and shoot the heaviest targets. The Scarabs and Wraiths will try to engage as many units as possible, back ed up by the Destroyer Lords.

The only real difference is that List 1 has an Overlord and 10 Tesla Immortals (who can either advance up the field to provide anti-infantry shooting or else secure a home objective), whilst List 2 instead has a 3rd unit of Heavy Destroyers and 6 more Scarabs.

Any thoughts/suggestions?
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Death1942
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I don't rate wraiths in the current index. They simply do not do enough damage to be a premier melee unit, they are currently only good at holding up units with their 3++ and multiple wounds.

Keep in mind with scarabs that they are only T3 and have a 6+ save. They are not going to do a whole lot of damage and if your opponent wants to obliterate them they can fairly easily (wounding them on 3s or even 2s with almost every weapon).

I also think destroyer lords are a bit pricey for what they do. You need to hide them behind units and hope that you don't end up in combat with anything with straight 3 damage (thunder hammers). The buff is completely useless as it is ranged attacks only and you don't want him sitting around just buffing ranged destroyers.

If you are absolutely set on these lists then I think the first one is better than the second.

Personally I would opt for a wraith teleport trick instead. Take a deceiver C'tan and a unit of at least 5 wraiths. No matter what you can teleport the unit of wraiths and the deceiver (plus up to 2 other units if you roll well) to within 12" of the enemy lines. Do this on a flank and watch as your opponent freaks out and has to readjust his battle line to deal with this flanking force.
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Mechanicus_Adept
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Flayed One
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I would agree with Death1942 that the first list is better as you have more boots on the ground.

If you are running that much scarabs then why not put a spyder to keep the scarabs alive longer?
Edited by Mechanicus_Adept, Aug 11 2017, 04:29 AM.
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Vipoid
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Quote:
 
I don't rate wraiths in the current index. They simply do not do enough damage to be a premier melee unit, they are currently only good at holding up units with their 3++ and multiple wounds.


This list was actually based on a 2000pt list I'd seen which used 2 Destroyer Lords and 55 Scarabs. Even at 1500pts I don't even own bases to proxy that amount of scarabs, so I thought Wraiths might work as substitutes.

If not, are there any other fast units that could work? Praetorians, maybe?

Quote:
 

I also think destroyer lords are a bit pricey for what they do. You need to hide them behind units and hope that you don't end up in combat with anything with straight 3 damage (thunder hammers). The buff is completely useless as it is ranged attacks only and you don't want him sitting around just buffing ranged destroyers.


I agree. However, that was part of the reason why I wanted to try a list along these lines. I love Destroyer Lords and would like to find a way to use them other than babysitting Destroyers.

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I would agree with Death1942 that the first list is better as you have more boots on the ground.

If you are running that much scarabs then why not put a spyder to keep the scarabs alive longer?


What would you take out for a Spyder?


Thanks for the replies, chaps.

I'm more than happy to changing these lists but I'd like to at least keep the general theme (2 Destroyer Lords advancing with some fast units). Would this be possible if I changed around some units (like swapping the Wraiths for Praetorians) or is it just a terrible idea to begin with?
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Quinten87
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Wraiths aren't that bad this edition they're just no longer god-like and need to be taken multiple times for redundancy. Scarabs are pretty good as well.

As to changes you could easily gain an extra command point in list 1 by just moving things around and keeping the army composition the same. Just add another outrider detachment and move the patrol detachment plus 3 fast attack choices to that.

Regardless, I would probably go with list 2. You have more redundancy and more anti-tank. That being said I would try and add in a CCB with another outrider detachment (just move some stuff around don't actually add fast attack choices). You could also try adding some doomsday arks instead of destroyers but that could be more personal preference. You might also want to take out some scarabs to make the wraith units bigger.

Final note, don't add a Spyder. They are really bad due to having low durability and no character keyword protection.
Edited by Quinten87, Aug 11 2017, 10:24 PM.
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Vipoid
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Thanks for replaying, Quinten87.

Quote:
 
Wraiths aren't that bad this edition they're just no longer god-like and need to be taken multiple times for redundancy. Scarabs are pretty good as well.


Well, I haven't actually tried Wraiths yet so I'm relying on internet advice regarding their worth. :P

Quote:
 

As to changes you could easily gain an extra command point in list 1 by just moving things around and keeping the army composition the same. Just add another outrider detachment and move the patrol detachment plus 3 fast attack choices to that.


I don't have enough FA units for a third Outrider - I'd need 9 in total and I only have 8.

Quote:
 

Regardless, I would probably go with list 2. You have more redundancy and more anti-tank. That being said I would try and add in a CCB with another outrider detachment (just move some stuff around don't actually add fast attack choices).


I'm happy to add in a CCB but what should I remove to get the points for it?

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You could also try adding some doomsday arks instead of destroyers but that could be more personal preference.


Unfortunately, I don't own any. That's why I'm having to use Destroyers. :'(

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You might also want to take out some scarabs to make the wraith units bigger.


Well, I'd prefer to add another unit of 3 (as far as I can see, they lose nothing from being MSU), but otherwise that's fine.

Quote:
 
Final note, don't add a Spyder. They are really bad due to having low durability and no character keyword protection.


Suits me. :D
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Quinten87
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Sorry, I was thinking heavy destroyers were FA for some reason.

I might take out a unit of 3 heavy destroyers for the CCB. You could also add in some wraiths/scarabs.

You can go MSU but having more drops is punished. You can also get screwed in KP missions.
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Vipoid
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Quote:
 
Sorry, I was thinking heavy destroyers were FA for some reason.


No worries.

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I might take out a unit of 3 heavy destroyers for the CCB. You could also add in some wraiths/scarabs.


Okay, I'll do that.

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You can go MSU but having more drops is punished. You can also get screwed in KP missions.


Ah, good point. I guess I'm still too used to playing IG (when your army has 20+ drops you stop caring about going first ;) ).

But yeah, that's definitely something I have to keep in mind.
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Death1942
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Destroyer lords are beastly in combat but they will die very quickly this edition. All of my opponents are able to get 2 or 3 damage flat melee strikes so a destroyer lord melts if he doesn't kill whatever he got into melee with.

If you are set on spamming wraiths and scarabs then you should certainly add in a spyder. They aren't great but they are a big force multiplier in your particular list.

Remember that going first got FAQ'd so it is only a +1 to the roll now. Drops are less relevant now but can still be important depending on missions.

I would 100% not take out the heavy destroyers. If you took them out for a CCB you will get shredded by vehicles. Taking out the heavy destroyers leaves you with only 5+ wounding units to T7 and T8 stuff (all vehicles). A command barge doesn't actually have any anti tank on it so removing one of your few anti tank units for an anti horde unit isn't a wise trade (in my opinion).
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