The Hyperion Order
Imperial Council
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| What is New Hyperion? New Hyperion (NH) is a region of NationStates. It is an empire built on the principles of Hyperionism, our guiding philosophy. Great! How do I sign up? Hold on there, buddy, you haven't even registered yet! You'll have to scroll up (or just click here) and take care of that first. After that, take a look at those four forums at the top of the list. The Low Orbit Welcome Wagon is where you can apply for Plebeianship and introduce yourself. You can undergo Patricianship if you're interested in leadership. For everything else, go to Imperial Service. What if I'm a diplomat? Go to the Immigration Desk instead, and we'll get you masked. What's the government situation look like? Our region has three main levels of command: the Imperial Council, the Inquisition, and the Hyperion Senate. The Imperial Council (IC) consists of the Autarch, Chancellor, Lord Inquisitor, High Lords, and military command. It assembles when sensitive or secret decisions need to be made. Its members otherwise act separately as department heads and administrators. The Inquisition is the law enforcement of the region. Inquisitors ensure that all members are complying with any requirements currently set in place, and, along with the Lord of Development, also controls admission into the Patrician caste. The Judiciary, our courts system, also exists as part of the Inquisition. The Hyperion Senate consists of all our Patricians, and is the primary body of law and policy. The Senate operates somewhere between a democracy and a mob, and doesn't necessarily need hard votes to get things done. While the IC is technically superior to the Senate, it is more common for the Councillors to participate as Senators. As such, the Hyperion Senate tends to be the most important part of the entire government. Is that it? Of course not, that would be dry and boring. Granted, the Hyperion Senate is about as boring as a discussion on abortion, but you probably don't want to deal with its squabbles and silliness 24/7. That's why we have the Imperial Service and the military. The Imperial Service consists of the various departments, such as Foreign Affairs and Recruitment. All departments are volunteer-only, though enlistment and training in the Hyperian Guard is highly recommended for all members. In general, however, you will be encouraged to join under-staffed departments. Oh yeah, didn't your recruitment telegram mention an RP? Why yes it did! While we allow other RPs, of course, our main RP is the one that sets the standard of our theme and culture. It's kind of complex and involved, but once you get the ball rolling it's about as smooth sailing as any other RP. What if I need help? Pop us a question. Our patience is legendary. You may also check the Great Library of Trantor for answers to some of the more common questions. |
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| A Song of Ice and Fire megathread; Every single word will be a spoiler to those who didn't read the books | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jun 16 2015, 07:27 PM (280 Views) | |
| Chancellor Laurentus | Jun 16 2015, 07:27 PM Post #1 |
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Dreadlord of New Hyperion
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Here, more in-depth discussions can be had about the books and series, because there is no fear of spoiling it for people who don't want it spoiled. |
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| Miricano | Jun 16 2015, 10:06 PM Post #2 |
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Defender upon the Wall
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[redacted]
Edited by Miricano, Jun 16 2015, 10:07 PM.
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| Chancellor Laurentus | Jun 19 2015, 06:49 PM Post #3 |
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Dreadlord of New Hyperion
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Bravo for even noticing it. I'll be honest when I say that I didn't even notice it had happened until I started reading the reviews of the episode. If that speaks to my lack of any sort of brain, so be it, but I was far from the only one, thus proving that a TV audience is too inattentive to appreciate finer details like these. *End of sarcasm*. When you're reading a book, you can constantly refer to the maps, and you have a much better idea of where you are in the world. Names, places and all these other finer details are utterly lost on an audience who watches for an hour per week, and then has to wait a year for the next season to come. When I first saw Stannis in season 2, I had absolutely no idea who he was, even though they mentioned him quite a few times in season 1. In the books, you don't encounter him in AGOT either, but you have a lot more time and opportunity to expand your knowledge of places, history, people and the exact layout of the land. This was undoubtedly an error on their part, but it didn't detract from my enjoyment in the least, especially as no emphasis is ever made on the exact layout of the land. Look at the total viewership of The Wire and The Sopranos, and then look again at how many of their viewers actually caught on to all the details the first time around, and it also becomes clear only those who gave it sufficient attention, possibly through viewing and reviewing episodes and watching them as part of a marathon, catch all of the little details. And that's not even comparing apples to apples yet, since Game of Thrones encompasses a far larger fictional setting than The Wire or The Sopranos. That said, I'm surprised you didn't mention Breaking Bad. ![]()
The purpose of my comparison with the books was to show you how stupid the Watch was in both instances, not to validate what occurred in the show with what happened in the books. During the course of the show, Alliser Thorne had been growing to hate Jon increasingly more as time went on, particularly after Jon broke his vows by sleeping with a wildling, and told Thorne "tall tales" of giants and the sheer size and desperation of the wildling army. Early in the series, I could even understand Alliser's dislike of Jon, because he was defending Sam from the harshest elements of the training, thus actually doing more harm than good by not making Sam prepare for what was to come. I approved of Alliser's speech to them both when he described how they had to survive the winter north of the wall by first eating the horses, and then each other as they began dying. This was a man who had obviously lived through hell, and had every reason to hate wildlings who had been at war with the Watch for his entire career as a Man of the Watch. But that's the thing, though. It bred irrational hatred of the wildlings, just as my father, uncle and many of their generation who served in the military on the front lines in the war in Angola grew to hate black people in general. The racism (or in the Watch's case their hatred for these savage barbarians) defied - and in most cases continues to defy - all logic, even when faced with the problems that South Africa has (and how this echoes the problems the Watch is facing). I've seen perfectly smart people become total morons in real life on issues of race, culture, language and heritage, who wouldn't trust these people even when faced with a very real existential crisis. Show-Jon had been receiving disgusted looks from a lot more people than Alliser and Olly (why, hello there, Bowen Marsh!), and the idea that Jon had led members of the Watch to their deaths at Hardhome, while defending a wilding village, was just to much to bear for these idiots. Again to use a real world example, my father's generation still has a distinct, and completely irrational distaste for any Englishmen, and while I was young, my uncle would often say that you can't ever trust an Englishman in the army, as they're soft and they will betray you at the front lines, and that the world would be better off if all Englishmen were killed, along with all black people. This coming from a man whose life depended on fellow English soldiers in the war! And also a man who went on to study electronic engineering and eventually became the owner of quite a successful film and media production company called Frame24. Even my father, who is a lot less extreme, can't completely hide his distrust for Englishmen or people of colour. Is it rational? Not in the slighest. I can't say I'll ever understand it, but without a doubt, this is a common thing. Just look at the problems facing our world, and yet people will still kill each other over issues of race and culture! On that count alone, I don't see it as a stretch of the imagination that Alliser and the other members of the Watch would be so clueless. In the books, they can't stand the idea of welcoming wildlings into the Watch, so how do you imagine they'll react when Jon starts preaching that their vows to protect the realms of men with their lives include the wildlings too, people who have slaughtered their brothers for 8 000 years? Not bloody well, even with what's coming. Not in my experience of racism and cultural hatred, both from black people to white people, from white people to black people, or from Afrikaners to Englishmen. Humanity is stupid like that. You could read all of this and not agree in the slightest, and then obviously the show wouldn't work for you, but for some of us, that entire sequence of events was completely believable, even given how stupid all those involved were. And just to put it into perspective of how stupid the Watch was even in the books, they'd experienced the power of the wights (and thus the Others, indirectly) at the Battle of the Fist of the First Men, and somehow they don't think they're royally screwed as of yet? Right...
I wasn't aware of their dislike of Stannis, so fair point. Even so, you've already pointed out that the books and series are separate entities. Show-Stannis may have been a great military commander once, but he has fallen under Mel's spell now. Show-Stannis was not out of character when burning Shireen, as every single one of them would have died there after Ramsay's guerilla tactics. Half of Stannis's men were mercenaries, and none of them were of the north. If there's one thing I've learnt, it is that guerilla tactics work like a charm when you're in your element, and a few men can do a lot of damage if they know how to camouflage themselves, and they move silently and without being seen in the lands they know well. However competent Stannis is as a commander, he isn't omniscient. Given the history and success of guerilla warfare, I wasn't ever in disbelief of the destruction Ramsay was able to cause with it, particularly as he was in his element. And as stated, even with the show's relatively negative light on Stannis, I respect the man immensely for marching forward after his army had deserted and his wife had killed herself, and he drew his sword at the front of the army and met his end fighting. The fact that he survived into the woods, considering he was at the very front of the front lines while facing such an overwhelming force, is a testament to just how tough and skillful this fucker was. Meeting his end at Brienne's hands, after everything he had done, was justice. He didn't fight it, particularly as he had already been mortally wounded. I can't speak to the popularity of depicting Stannis like this, but everyone in my circle of friends received it well, even with the few book readers among us.
Again, I don't really care that it was so poorly received by critics, since it achieves its goal of expanding things at Winterfell with the Boltons without bringing in some minor character literally no one would have remembered when they've only watched the show. The rape and sexual violence does wear on my nerves, but so it did in the books, and Jeyne Pool's abuse was much worse than anything that's happened to Sansa. Harry the Heir is without a doubt a supremely interesting plot LF has going on in the books, but I can't fault the series for going past that and looking at the endgame with more established characters, also taking into consideration that they're already struggling to include all the things they want to include with their 10-episode seasons. I've long advocated a 15-episode season, but I have no idea how that would affect their budget. Indeed, if we want to complain about rape scenes, we shouldn't be reading the books, and last season's rape of Cersei by Jaime -- a meter away from their son's corpse! -- was much more poorly done and completely destroyed any believable character progression we had of Jaime. Last season was worse in almost all conceivable areas than this one, come to think of it. I've read the casting-calls, and it does seem like they're casting Euron Greyjoy, or possibly Victarion, but I haven't as of yet seen the Manderleys or reference made to a description that matches the Manderleys, so you may want to point me to where you got this info. That said, the Greyjoys are an established family on the TV, so they'll have a much easier time with them, and as Euron has found the Dragonbinder (please correct me if I got the name wrong, it's been awhile since I read the books), they are a far more significant faction than the Manderleys too. And with regards to the Night's King, I agree that they're depicting the Others in a light that is clichéd, being so ugly and dead-looking, instead of elegant and dangerous, and that's why I began enjoying the show far less since season 2, but what's done is done. I actually like this Night's King character they've created, as he is a bit more of a personification of the Great Other, or he may well end up being something akin to Melisandre but serving the Great Other. I wouldn't go as far as saying they've created a new dark lord, as the Lord of Light has also been shown not to be entirely benevolent, and nothing has convinced me that R'Hllor is any more benevolent than any of the other gods. The Night's King (even if this isn't the same entity of legend who ruled the Night's Watch) is just another character in the struggle between the Great Other and the Red God. It is an exaggeration to claim he's a dark lord. Of course, if that's the way you feel about it, I can't fault it, but consider that the vast majority of viewers have responded positively.
I get your frustration here, but recall that in the books, it had already been established that one man could do a lot of damage with his spear to Drogon in the fighting pits. It is thus not inconceivable that the Dothraki present could well end up also seriously wounding Drogon and take Dany as a prisoner anyway. Of course, I know that the Dothraki favour those curved swords, but given the sheer number present, as well as the fact that Drogon has not gotten close to reaching the size of Balerion the Black Dread, her fate is definitely uncertain. From the Winds of Winter Sample Chapter
I'm not blindly defending it, indeed I have been an outspoken critic of the fourth season, precisely because of the poor choices they made with Shae's and Tyrion's relationship, Jaime's characterisation, and the horrible, horrible battle at Craster's Keep and the clichéd "Ygritte dies in Jon's arms while people are still fighting around them" bullshit that last season pulled. Don't even get me started on the pointless fight between Brienne and the Hound. It was an incredibly good fight scene, but that was the epitome of "let's include bloody battle scene between two legends, because fuck it." But here's the thing: aside from the Dorne bits, and Barristan's absolutely random death after he just "happened" to be in the same area as the Sons of the Harpy, and that entire battle that took place really, this season worked consistently well for me. So why then should I criticise it if I don't think it deserves it, apart from the parts I've pointed out? If that makes me a filthy TV peasant with no brains, then I'm a filthy TV peasant with no brains. I just happened to have read the books too, and the dialogue and writing there didn't win any awards in my book. George R. R. Martin is superb with creating his world, and the overall plot and subtle foreshadowing, but by god, I got nauseous with some of the things I read, and with the characterisation of pretty much all female characters. And yet, I can completely forgive it's short-comings without being offended that someone else could actually like it so much more than the series. If the series pains you so much, why not just stop watching it? EDIT: And to include a wonderful exchange between Jaime and Tyrion that doesn't even happen in the books: https://youtube.com/watch?v=XAOzMs9HbWg It's hard to criticise the filthy TV peasant writers when they can include such gems. Edited by Laurentus, Jun 19 2015, 07:14 PM.
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| Lord taulover | Jan 31 2016, 12:00 AM Post #4 |
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Lord of Propaganda
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I was wondering what y'all think of the various fan theories. Let's start with the most popular one out there: R+L=J. Here's one of the better explanations of the theory I can find within a few minutes of Googling. |
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| Chancellor Laurentus | Jan 31 2016, 03:41 AM Post #5 |
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Dreadlord of New Hyperion
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It's just too obvious, but George R. R. Martin has stated fans have figured out quite a few large mysteries, so it could be true. |
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| Lord taulover | Jan 31 2016, 06:08 PM Post #6 |
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Lord of Propaganda
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Quite a few people believe that quote to be a reference to an interview in which GRRM was asked whether Aegon or Rhaella were alive, but that's pretty irrelevant to our discussion. I personally feel that R+L=J isn't "too obvious" in the story. GRRM seems to be placing R+L=J foreshadowing all over the place, especially in AGOT, but that should strengthen the theory, not weaken it. Unless he's able to come up with a plausible explanation for them, writing off all the clues as red herrings would be pretty bad writing. Furthermore, I don't think it's actually that obvious without the help of the fandom. Although some people seem to have worked out R+L=J on their own, it seems like a large majority are introduced to it via the internet. And then there's the people who finished the series ten years ago (and then read ADWD when it came out), and haven't participated in any online discussions whatsoever, who would probably be surprised by an R+L=J reveal. Finally, R+L=J not being true just seems to leave a tad too many plot holes for my taste. Which Jon parentage theory do you lean in favor of? |
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| Chancellor Laurentus | Jan 31 2016, 07:07 PM Post #7 |
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Dreadlord of New Hyperion
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I don't have a particular preference. I'm not saying R+L=J is a bad thing, either. I'm actually commenting on the fact that I suspect George R. R. Martin is playing a trick on us by pushing that as the most likely scenario through all the clues, but that in typical George R. R. Martin style, we're actually misinterpreting the available info in spectacular ways. That said, if Jon is Ned's son, I like the idea of Ashara Dane (Dayne? I can't remember) being his mother. Of course, the sheer number of prophecies out there really make debating this incredibly entertaining, but ultimately rather pointless. I've seen some incredibly well thought out tin-foil-hat theories, that analyse the books to shreds and find pretty compelling evidence in favour of just about anything you can imagine. Also, I would really be rather excited if Jon actually does die after the events at the Wall in the last book. My one friend and I have discussed this recently, and remembered one of the characters saying that people see what they expect to see in prophecies, and that their interpretations of them are often wildly inaccurate. I think it was Melisandre who said this? That gave us the idea that Jon wasn't Azor Ahai after all, but that his passing might be significant in some way to that whole prophecy. That said, Ned's musings on Jon's hair colour, as well as that of his sister, also black of hair, and Rhaegar, blond of hair, really very strongly hinted at such a connection. I'd be really surprised if people didn't consider R+L=J right there, especially as Ned kept remembering a promise he made his sister too, and that he said things like some lies not being without honour. I watched the TV show up to season 3 before I read the books, and still when I got to that part in AGOT, it was immediately obvious what was being implied. Of course, I did miss quite a few later clues, as I came to realise when getting involved in internet discussions, but that part was so blatant that I really don't know how someone could have missed it. EDIT: One thing I really liked from the books was Meera's telling about the Knight of the Laughing Tree. There weren't really any clues to Jon's identity in it, but it still gave the reader a lot to consider in conjunction with all the other clues that had already been in the books. Edited by Laurentus, Jan 31 2016, 07:35 PM.
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| Lord taulover | Jan 31 2016, 08:07 PM Post #8 |
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Lord of Propaganda
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Definitely. If GRRM can pull it off in a way that in hindsight seems obvious (such as Ned's death or the Red Wedding), I would definitely applaud him. I personally feel that R+L=J presents the best explanation for the various Tower of Joy scenes. This analysis, among others, basically has me convinced that Lyanna was definitely with child at the time. There are other possibilities, such as R+L=D or a miscarriage, but they don't fit as well IMO. Season 6 leaks In case you're interested, this is Melisandre's quote: The traditional explanation, though, is that Melisandre is lampshading herself: As you said, of course, this could be taken either as a red herring or as an actual clue. I also find the possibility that Jon will stay dead interesting. GRRM has his fair share of fake deaths (Davos comes to mind), and people have come to accept that some people, including Jon, simply have the plot armor to survive. I saw this interesting prediction a few months ago that Melisandre will appear to revive Jon, but his behavior will seem unnaturally eerie, and the last chapter reveals that Jon is trapped in Ghost. On the complete opposite spectrum, there's people who believe that Jon didn't die in ADWD, but is merely severely wounded. Edited by taulover, Jan 31 2016, 08:08 PM.
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| Lord Inquisitor Colberius X | Feb 1 2016, 12:07 AM Post #9 |
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I'm also a proponent of the R+L=J theory. It brings everything together, and I don't think that GRRM would suddenly provide an alternative explanation for all the clues he wove into the books. I've recently started watching the show (having read all the books last year), so I'm glad GOT discussion has started up again. My roommate and I actually had our longest conversation to date yesterday about the differences between the books and the show, predictions for the future of both, and the plausibility of various fan theories. Before that, our longest conversation on record was probably under three minutes long; we talked about GOT for at least an hour and a half. |
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| Chancellor Laurentus | Feb 1 2016, 05:50 AM Post #10 |
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Dreadlord of New Hyperion
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My friend Christian Carbonell and I can literally take hours discussing all the possibilities, and each time we do, it deepens our love for this series immeasurably. |
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