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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 18 2014, 03:27 PM (2,232 Views) | |
| EjamiShipper | Jan 18 2014, 03:27 PM Post #1 |
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Just wondering if anyone watches? I am a huge fan since day 1 and well I love Jensen Ackles. I love Jared Padelecki too. BUT I am a die-hard JA fan from way back (DAYS of Our Lives days.) If that makes any sense! Too have two hot piece of man candy for so many years on 1 show is a gift from the TV Gods up above. I would love to discuss with anyone here. I think they will be getting renewed for a 10th season! WOOT WOOT! There should be news coming out soon from the "CW Up Fronts" on this. Edited by EjamiShipper, May 17 2014, 06:13 PM.
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| EjamiShipper | Feb 5 2014, 01:15 PM Post #46 |
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This was a comment from a Supernatural Forum I belong too:
I am wondering if part of Gadriel is still left in Sam -- that he is saying this to Dean?? Don't get me wrong, I get Dean has issues of "not wanting to be alone" but he really does love Sam. BUT I agree with this poster that I don't believe that Sam doesn't feel the same way as Dean does about him. Something is way off here. |
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| EjamiShipper | Feb 5 2014, 01:32 PM Post #47 |
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SOURCE/MANY THANKS: http://tvline.com/2014/02/02/supernatural-spinoff-characters-cast-tribes-the-cw/# February 2, 2014 08:59 AM PST Supernatural Spin-Off Exclusive: Meet the Werewolves, Shifters and Hunters of Tribes Michael Ausiello The Windy City is on the brink of all-out war. New intel has surfaced about The CW’s Chicago-based planted Supernatural spin-off, Supernatural: Tribes, and it points to an epic battle involving five rival monster families and a vengeance-seeking hunter. Read on for exclusive details on the key players populating the offshoot (all of whom will be introduced in this season’s 20th episode of Supernatural). ENNIS ROTH | The de-facto star of the potential series, Ennis is “likeable, strong-willed, resolute, with a strong sense of justice.” He’s the son of a cop who grew up in poverty. He’s en route to the police academy himself when someone he is close to is murdered — presumably by some kind of monster. He meets up with Sam and Dean and “learns the staggering truth” that Chicago is run by five families of monsters (including, but perhaps not limited to, werewolves and shape shifters). And with that, a new monster-hunter is born. Fun fact: Producers are looking to fill this role with an African-American actor in his early 20s. DAVID HAYDEN | A shape-shifter from one of Chicago’s ruling monster families. He’s been living as a human for some time, but a tragedy propels him back into the life. David is in his early 20s. MARGO HAYDEN | David’s “professional, strong-willed, determined, ambitious” shape-shifter sister. She’s an “ex-punk rocker gone corporate” who sets out to be the new head of the family in the wake of a tragedy. Margo is in her early 20s. VIOLET DURANT | A werewolf and part of the wealthy, powerful Durant family. In a twist right out of West Side Story, the early-twentysomething is hot for family rival David (see above), but their love is forbidden. JULIAN DURANT | Violet’s “savagely handsome, strong, arrogant” twentysomething brother and Ennis’ arch nemesis. FREDDIE COSTA | A world-weary copy in his 30s, Freddie has a soft spot in his heart for Ennis (he knew his dad back in the day). Fun fact: Freddie’s got a secret. Thoughts? Theories? Casting suggestions? Hit the comments! |
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| EjamiShipper | Feb 5 2014, 02:09 PM Post #48 |
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Elite Member
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This is an excellent article and I encourage you to read it. Source/Many Thanks: http://www.screenfad.com/supernatural/supernatural-making-sam-and-dean-winchester-brothers-again-12845 Supernatural: Making Sam and Dean Winchester Brothers Again We examine how the Winchester brothers ended up at this point and how the show can mend their relationship again By Clarissa on February 3, 2014 Supernatural began with Sam and Dean Winchester reuniting after years of being apart. These two extraordinary brothers got together to find their father, solve the murder of Sam’s girlfriend, and get revenge against the demon that had killed their mother and set their lives on this particular course. We’ve seen Sam and Dean bring out the best in each other over the years. We’ve seen their love for each other literally save the world and seen amazing and heroic expressions of this love and sacrifice for each other. But we’ve also seen Sam and Dean bring out the worst in each other. Maybe not in a literal sense, but in the sense of “I’m going to do a very bad thing that will have very bad repercussions because I love you far too much”. They’ve made bad choices because, and for, each other and somewhere along the way they went from the brothers they were in season 1 to brothers that hold grudges and don’t trust one another. Supernatural is built on the theme of family and no family members are more important to each other in this series than Sam and Dean. So how do you fix something that has become fractured over the last nine years? Season 4 is arguably the first real significant crack in their relationship. Although, an argument could also be made that the splinter lines appeared all the way back in season 2 when Dean kept a terrible secret from Sam told to him by their father. One can even argue that the foundation was laid in the the first season; in season 1 we already begin to see the fundamental differences in the brothers’ coping mechanisms and, as a result, we recognize the precursors to their current status. But the real problems — the lies that lasted far too long and cut far too deep — really came about in season 4 when Sam turned to the dark side in an effort to avenge a brother who had already returned from Hell. It didn’t matter that Dean had been pulled from the pit, Sam was determined to kill the demon that had put him there. In the process, Sam lost important pieces of himself, pieces that he’s still trying to rebuild to this day and, in the process, Dean lost a big piece of his trust in his brother. Lies, secrets, betrayal, anger, loss of faith and lack of trust would become recurring themes between the Winchesters as Supernatural progressed. While the love between the brothers has always been clear, it wasn’t enough to prevent bad choices from being made. Even when they were for the right reasons, these choices had long-lasting consequences. Grudges would be held. Sometimes for years. Sometimes to this day. People would lose their lives. Sometimes the world would almost come to an end. So where does this leave us, Supernatural fans? This long journey has taken us to this: a turning point in the relationship of Sam and Dean. We’re literally at two roads diverged in the woods. One path could lead to salvation for this relationship, this cornerstone that Supernatural was built upon. One road could lead to permanent ruin. A death knell for something we once believed would last forever; something that is the root of nearly every storyline throughout the seasons. Which road will the Winchesters travel? That remains to be seen. Personally, we’re hoping for salvation: mending of the fractures in their relationship and a long-overdue discussion. After five seasons of near-constant conflict, it’s time that Sam and Dean settled their issues once and for all and arrived at a place where they can continue to love each other and work together as well as they have always done, but now without the lingering grudges between them. And how does the mytharc for the season fit in? Could Dean’s new Mark of Cain be an important step in helping the brothers fix their problems? Could the aftermath of Dean’s choice to allow an angel to possess his brother actually help heal them by bringing about important realizations? That’s precisely what we’re here to discuss. In an effort to better understand the Winchesters’ individual and joint paths this season, we’re going to discuss their mytharcs, the introspection that we feel is important in healing themselves, and the discussion and compromises that are crucial to bringing them back to the brothers they once were. Let He Who is Without Sin…. We could spend all day arguing which brother committed the bigger sin(s). In one corner you have Sam, who allowed himself to be manipulated (despite all evidence that it was a Very Bad Idea) and broke the final seal to allow the apocalypse to come about. In the other corner you have Dean, who violated his brother’s autonomy and lied to his friends and family by allowing himself to be manipulated by an angel because of his desperation at the thought of losing his brother. One is clearly worse for the world as a whole, while the other is clearly worse for the Winchesters as a family unit and for Sam individually. Sam’s sin was reactive, until Dean became aware of Ruby and the demon blood and Sam started proactively lying to him. Dean’s choice to save Sam in episode 9.01 was also, in a way, reactive to Sam’s desire to give up and die instead of fight (which is a big issue that we’ll address shortly). Once Gadreel was firmly ensconced within his brother, Dean’s lies — like Sam’s before him — became deliberate in an effort to heal the brother that Gadreel was essentially holding hostage, much like Sam became a slave to his demon blood addiction. Here’s the point: both Winchesters have committed grave sins for, and because of, each other. At no point during this discussion do we want to argue about which brother committed the Worst Act. Vinnie from Winchester Bros and Hey, Don’t Judge Me, my co-writer for this article, is, in her heart, a SamGirl. For the sake of labels, let’s call me a DeanGirl. That being said, both of us agree that each Winchester has both strengths and weaknesses. That their heroic deeds are, indeed, heroic, but that does not whitewash their sins. The purpose of this particular examination of Sam and Dean’s relationship is to find a compromise for the two characters. We want Sam and Dean to be brothers. We don’t want a fractured relationship or to watch a version of Supernatural where they are merely working buddies and nothing more. That’s not a version of the show either of us have any interest in. We both acknowledge that while it is right to point out the sins of both Sam and Dean, nothing will be gained by arguing who is worse than the other. That’s not what the show, the fandom, or the Winchesters need right now. Since the Supernatural fandom does like a lively debate — that can, on occasion, turn towards the mean side — we ask that you be respectful in your comments when it comes to Sam and Dean and their actions and, most importantly, to your fellow fans. In addition, we know that this commentary on the boys is quite lengthy, but we cover nine seasons of history and we didn’t want to do a disservice to Sam and Dean’s relationship by glossing over certain parts of history solely to make it shorter. So we hope you’ll stick with us until the end! Next page: Sam, Dean, Emotional Arc, and the Mark of Cain… Sam Winchester: Coming to Terms With His Place in the World It’s a trend on Supernatural that Sam tends to be the focus of the mytharc, while Dean is often the focus of the emotional arc; because of this, we both believe that the show has provided the audience with a far better understanding of Dean than it has of Sam. While Sam is certainly not some unknown entity, we can, on occasion, be left feeling adrift when we don’t understand his thought process. Such is the problem with our current situation. More particularly, we don’t understand the death wish Sam has seriously been pushing lately. It’s no secret that both Sam and Dean have often felt that they either should have died long ago (if only deals/angels/demons/God didn’t bring them back!) or that their death is the only thing that can redeem them and/or be necessary penance for their sins. While Dean has often internalized these feelings and allowed them to consume him until he became a functioning alcoholic, Sam has often been far more vocal about the fact that his death would be necessary to make up for the crimes he’s committed. But here’s the thing: Sam paid for his greatest sin when he went to Hell. He died to save the world (and yes, to stop the apocalypse that he — admittedly — had a big hand in starting). Since then, we’ve had Soulless Sam, who obviously did things that Sam didn’t agree with, but none of those were technically his fault. Sam’s death wish was never further from his mind than in the episode “Trial and Error”, when he confronted Dean, who was convinced that he had to take on the trials and close the Gates of Hell and that death was the inevitable end of that journey. “I want to slam hell shut too, okay, but I want to survive it,” Sam said to Dean. “I want to live and so should you. You have friends up here, family. Hell, you even got your own room now. You were right, okay? I see light at the end of this tunnel and I’m sorry you don’t, I am, but it’s there and if you come with me, I can take you to it.” Later, in the season 8 finale, “Sacrifice”, Sam agreed to not give his life in order to close said Gates of Hell, giving in to his brother’s emotional plea that they didn’t have to yet again sacrifice their lives to achieve this goal, not with all of the knowledge they had in order to defeat their enemies. And yet, when we arrived at the season 9 premiere of Supernatural, we saw a Sam who was prepared to give in to Death (literally, Death himself came to reap Sam Winchester). “I can’t help you if you ain’t willing to fight for yourself!” Sam’s vision of Dean yelled out, but Sam told him that death was what he wanted. We have to admit, we’re unclear how the show went from the Sam who saw the light at the end of the tunnel to the Sam who was fully prepared to die without any more of a fight. One could, of course, argue that Sam was trying to bolster Dean’s self-esteem in “Trial and Error” (something which is needed and which we’ll revisit later) but that when faced with the possibility of finally just giving up after a fight, Sam was prepared to let go. But later, in “Devil May Care”, Sam admitted that he was happy with his life, that he was surrounded by friends and family and didn’t seem to want to off himself. Later still, in “First Born”, he was prepared to let Castiel kill him in order to get a chance at tracking Gadreel, which Castiel refused to follow through with. Of course, there’s a difference between wanting to kill oneself constantly and being prepared to die in a life-threatening situation, but it’s hard to reconcile these two seemingly distinct versions of Sam: the one who wants to fight and be happy to live another day and the one who wants to die. Which one is the real Sam Winchester? It’s imperative that Sam finally accept that his death isn’t the solution that he believes it to be. Sam’s death isn’t necessary to save the world at this point in time, nor is there anything to be gained by his loss, except that Sam can stop fighting if he’s too tired to go on; yet all evidence to the contrary, the speeches we’ve seen from Sam show that he is content with his lot in life. This back and forth of dying or not-wanting-to-die is becoming tiresome. Who is Sam Winchester? Does he believe that he’s worth getting a shot at life (barring uncontrollable circumstances) or does he think he’s not worth living? Is he happy with his life or does he want to die? The main problem goes back to the fact that we simply don’t have enough of Sam’s emotional point of view to truly understand whether he wants to live or die and what might be influencing these choices. Therefore, we’re frustrated when we hear his speech in “Trial and Error” and then see him prepared to die in “I Think I’m Going to Like it Here”, and then further confused when we hear his contentment in “Devil May Care” juxtaposed with his revelations in “Road Trip” and “First Born” . Now that Gadreel is out of Sam and the younger Winchester doesn’t seem to be the primary driver of the mytharc, we think it’s crucial that Sam become focus of the season’s emotional arc. Since Sam became aware that Dean tricked him into becoming possessed by Gadreel, he has given two indications as to his emotional state. One came when he told Dean he wouldn’t stop him from leaving, but then dropped the cryptic message that Dean’s belief that he’s poison isn’t really the problem here. The second came when he told Dean that there was something broken in their relationship. What? We don’t know, because all Sam has dropped are hints, not any real insight into how he feels about their relationship or even much regarding how he feels about himself and what happened to him. While Sam is often the one that wants to talk, he rarely wants to talk about what he’s internalized. More often, he wants someone — most often Dean — to tell him how they feel. These two moments almost highlight that and Sam trails off because he’s unwilling to elaborate. And Dean certainly isn’t one to push for clarification. Castiel spent most of the time talking to — or possibly more accurately at — Sam in “First Born”, while Sam quietly listened to him. Did he take it to heart when Castiel said “nothing is worth losing you”? We don’t know, because we don’t really know how Sam feels. What Sam needs more than anything right now is not to be possessed or to have his life threatened. What he needs — and what the fans need — is to see Sam accept his place in this world once and for all. He needs to internalize the same advice he gave to Dean in “Trial and Error”. He needs to learn to value his own life and to be ready to fight for himself when the time comes. These are not easy choices for him to make, nor are they easy lessons to take to heart, but if Sam can finally get a solid emotional arc on Supernatural perhaps he can finally achieve this. Dean Winchester: The Mark of Cain and a Dark Path? As we said, the time has once again come for Dean to play a larger part in the mythology. Consider this: Sam’s quest to close the Gates of Hell in season 8 was, in many ways, a continuation of his initial season 4 storyline, which saw him essentially unlocking the final seal in order to open the Gates (or, more specifically, Lucifer’s cage, but the comparison is still valid). While Sam absolutely paid for his actions in season 4 by sacrificing himself in “Swan Song” and spending over a century in Hell, his season 8 storyline was a natural continuation of the themes that are typically associated with Sam and harkened back to his earlier storyline. With regards to Dean, we have absolutely no idea what the Mark of Cain will do to him. It seems logical to assume that the side effects that Cain so ominously alluded to have the potential to affect Dean’s emotional state and choices. What Cain initially did to save his brother took away his brother’s autonomy, but the intent behind his choice was love. Once he joined Lucifer and received his Mark, he turned into a man who enjoyed the kill. Much like Sam’s storyarc last season is related to his own season 4 story, the Mark of Cain has the potential to relate back to Dean’s own season 4 storyline: recovering from the effects of Hell and becoming a torturer while down in the pit. Dean’s emotional state post-Hell was a big deal in season 4, but once he confessed his actions to Sam, he internalized the pain he felt over what he had done and the enjoyment he derived from it. Since then, we’ve seen him struggle over the fact that being a hunter has made him a continuous killer. Purgatory went a long way in helping him accept that enjoying the killing of true monsters doesn’t necessarily make him an evil person, but while he has accepted these facets of his personality, he’s never truly reconciled them. If the Mark of Cain has the potential to essentially make Dean go “dark side”, then it’s not only a valuable path to help him finally deal with his post-Hell storyline, but it also opens up the door to a better understanding of his brother. It’s obvious that there is still a part of Dean that doesn’t truly understand the choices Sam made in season 4. Despite his own Big Sin, Dean has never known what it is like to be seduced by darkness, to fall victim to its allure, or to truly give in to it as a mortal man. The closest he has ever come was becoming a torturer in Hell, and though he admits in “Family Remains” that he look pleasure in torturing souls, initially it was a response to the desire to simply avoid further pain in Hell, not out of revenge, solace, or desire to atone. If Dean is tempted by this Mark, if he goes through his own arc of becoming darker and darker, he can finally understand why Sam made the choices that he did and such understanding is crucial not only for him to understand his own desires/faults/strengths, but also to mending his relationship with Sam. True understanding of each other’s thought processes – despite how different the brothers inherently are from each other – can only help them see each other’s perspectives. Which, in turn, helps heal the rift between them. As much as Dean would be better served by understanding Sam and his own weaknesses, Sam would be better served by finally accomplishing something he hasn’t done in a very long time: saving Dean. In the season 8 finale, Sam told Dean that he confessed his biggest sin in the church: letting Dean down. While Sam has so often struggled for independence, we know how pained he is when he feels that he has failed his brother. In this respect, Sam has failed Dean twice. His inability to save Dean from Hell was clearly out of his control, as the entire situation had been manipulated so that Dean could break the first seal down in Hell. The second time, Sam wasn’t able to save Dean from Purgatory. While part of the problem there was his complete lack of knowledge on where to start and what happened to his brother, another part was his so-called “deal” the brothers had made, and the final part was simply Sam giving up because he was too broken. Sam internalizes his failures to the point where he feels that they are all that define him. He has failed the brother who brought him back to life twice and he has, he feels, also failed the world at large. Furthermore, not only did Sam fail repeatedly at saving his brother, his self worth falls even lower when he learns, twice over, that supernatural beings were the ones to save Dean. For Sam, this means that no amount of gained knowledge or strength would change the fact that he naturally would not have been able to succeed, yet a completely human Dean is arguably able to excel at bringing his brother back to life. There’s a two-fold irony there, especially when you take into account that both Sam and Dean are both constantly unnerved at the possibility of Sam not being entirely human. Sam consistently exists in a bizarre drift between human and “other”; one being not good enough, the other being unacceptable. The ability to be able to save Dean from any darkness caused by the Mark of Cain could go a long way not only in benefiting Dean, but it may also help Sam with his own guilt because it’s possible that no one can save him from this more than Sam. Sam and Dean’s story doesn’t have to be Cain and Abel’s story. It already isn’t. The fact that Dean didn’t kill his brother as Cain did his is testament to the diverted paths this group of siblings have already taken. Sam and Dean’s story doesn’t have to end with betrayal disguised as salvation. In “Hunted”, Dean discloses that their father told him that if he couldn’t save Sam he’d have to kill him. In that situation and in every situation beyond, Dean has always saved Sam, not killed him or let him die. In this way, Dean is dissimilar to Cain, who killed his brother instead of finding another way to save him from Lucifer. This right here shows how Dean is not the complete mirror of Cain and how the stories can split instead of repeat. If Sam can come to understand Dean’s determination to save his brother because he loves him and Dean can understand Sam’s weakness then the brothers can approach each other on a far more level playing field. We know much debate has been going around as to exactly how this saving might take place. Will Abaddon possess Sam or Castiel or someone else close to Dean? We both would argue that such a tactic would not only be repetitive, but it would also serve no actual purpose. Dean doesn’t need to be saved from becoming dark because he’s afraid of killing someone or by being put into a circumstance where killing a demon via someone in his life is the only way out of the situation. It’s not that this would be an easy way out, but it diminishes his own free will via emotional blackmail, as it were. He needs to be saved from darkness because Sam helps him realize (as he should realize himself) that he is worth living and he cannot give in to the dark side. Sam needs to reiterate the speech he gave Dean in “Trial and Error”, but without the impending self-sacrifice on the horizon, and Dean needs to believe and accept it. Dean needs to get back to the moment in “Dream a Little Dream” where he confronts the demon version of himself; not for one moment does Dean regret the choice that he made, but he understands in that moment that Hell is not the place he deserves to go. Next page: What happened to Sam and Dean? Sam and Dean’s Relationship: What Went Wrong? If you spend any time in the Supernatural fandom, you may have heard that some people consider the Winchester brothers’ bond to be toxic. That their dependency on each other is a Bad Thing that leaves victims in its wake. Others, meanwhile, feel that this bond is still the foundation that the show is built on and don’t want it to change (at least, not too much). We would argue that their dependency in and of itself is not the problem; the brothers’ dependency has, in fact, given us some of the most well written, well acted moments in canon and has saved the world both directly and indirectly. But it’s the execution of their inherently pure motivations that has occasionally subverted the intent, so we submit this: that the Winchesters have an unusually strong bond that makes absolute sense when you consider the circumstances of their lives. There is no possible scenario in which you can judge Sam and Dean by the standards of a normal pair of siblings, even extremely close siblings. The line between older brother and father blurred for Dean towards Sam so long ago, a by-product of an absentee father and the memory of a young boy who carried his baby brother from a burning house and, as a result, the brother and child lines blurred for Sam. The season 9 episode “Bad Boys” showed us that Dean gave up a shot at a normal life not because he was upset at the possibility of disobeying or disappointing his father (a man who, as we saw in season 1, was someone Dean desperately wanted to respect him) but because he saw his little brother in the car and realized that he loved Sam too much to walk away, something Dean tells us simply with his smile. He does not want to be with Sam because of obligation, he wants to be with Sam because of their connection and because he derives happiness from Sam and his accomplishments. Sam, meanwhile, has had several opportunities to go off and live that “normal life” that he seems so desperate for. His most successful attempt went up in flames – literally – when Jessica died in the pilot, which we later learn was all part of a manipulative plan anyway. Since then, Sam’s most recent opportunity to leave Dean took place in season 8, when he could have reconciled with Amelia and left hunting behind. Instead, Sam chose Dean and this life, as he always does, and later, he talked about being content with his lot. To suggest that Sam desperately still wants to get away not only ignores his own choices, but breaking the “dependency” simply to save Sam from Dean and this life is a moot point, since he has chosen both. So when Dean left him at the end of “Road Trip”, Sam could have stopped hunting. Even after Castiel left him to track Metatron, Sam chose to work cases, eventually reuniting him with his brother. Repeatedly, we have seen Sam and Dean part ways only to come back together and it’s almost always Sam who comes back to Dean willingly. In fact, in “The End” it’s Sam who wants to come back and initially Dean fights him on it. Later, given the opportunity to remain in a supernatural coma living an idealized version of his life in “The Man Who Knew Too Much”, Sam again chooses Dean. Given his track record, there’s no doubt that Sam will not only continue on as a hunter, but will also re-embrace Dean in the process. Some people may consider the dependency to be toxic, however the problem between the Winchesters is not the principle existence of their dependency, but it the heights to which they allow their dependency to take them. There is pure and enduring love between Sam and Dean. There is nothing wrong with a person having that One Person Who is More Special Than Anyone Else. For many people, it is their child. For others, it is their spouse or other loved one. For Sam and Dean, it is Dean and Sam. Yes, they do bad things to save each other’s lives. This is not in dispute. Yes, there are casualties for these actions, but the real love between these brothers is something that should be celebrated, not derided, so long as it is wielded in a manner that doesn’t nearly cause the world to end or someone — anyone — to get hurt. But what’s at the true root of the problems between Dean and Sam? Here is what we think: together they possess two fundamental and conflicting characteristics from which most of their problems develop. At the most basic level, Sam is a runner. He was a rebellious boy who grew up into a man who longs to be independent, to have freedom and to not conform to the requirements of his father or to the truths of the life he has been given. This has led to Sam not only wielding his independence like a sword against Dean, because he knows how much the threat of leaving hurts his brother. But he also manifests his desire to run in more simple things, such as running from the truth by keeping secrets or coming up with excuses to justify his behavior. Meanwhile, at his core, Dean is a clinger. Much has been said over the years about how Dean derives his self-worth from Sam, how he’s constantly clinging to his loved ones — to Sam most of all — because he cannot bear to be alone unless he is punishing himself. All of this is true. Like Sam’s desire to be free is not necessarily a flaw unless it is wielded in a manner to hurt Dean or to prevent himself from facing the truth, Dean’s inability to be alone isn’t a flaw until it becomes a problem. In order to ensure that Dean is not alone, he must be in control of the situation. Dean can a controlling/bossy individual and this is part of what makes him a natural leader. It stems from the fact that he had to be in charge of a child when he himself was a child. He had to control his life — and Sam’s life, to a degree — because otherwise these two young children could die and revenge against the demon that killed their mother may never be achieved. His motives for this are somewhat pure; he wants to be able to control various aspects of Sam’s life, for example, in order to ensure that his brother remains alive and with him. But Sam — ever the man who wants to be free — wants to be away from this suffocation and Dean doesn’t understand why his manner of exerting control isn’t in line with Sam’s desires. When Sam decided to follow Ruby in season 4, what he was really doing was choosing his own path — choosing his independence — despite the fact that the initial push towards this path came as a result of trying to avenge Dean. When his brother tried to get him to stop — nay, to see reason — Sam refused to do so. When Sam chose not to look for Dean (another sin that Dean has clearly held against him), he was honoring a promise the boys had made… but what he was really doing was running. He ran away from reality and subsequently ended up settling on Amelia to escape his pain at losing Dean and then he ran from her when her husband returned. When Dean tricked Sam into accepting Gadreel, he was doing what he always does: refusing to let Sam leave him alone. Dean’s penchant for control used to manifest itself in small ways. “I’m the oldest, so I know best,” he would tell Sam. While these conversations may seem innocent, they are little ways in which Dean tries to assert control over a situation to avoid losing a loved one. All of this came to a head in season 9 when Dean used emotional manipulation to change Sam’s decision to die and arguably forced the will to live upon him. Dean was desperate and there is no situation where he will let Sam die, but while it’s true that he machinated the situation because he wanted to control the it, Sam’s choice was his own in that moment. Unfortunately, while Sam accepted fake Dean’s offer to find a way to save his life, he had absolutely no idea the situation Dean had conceived in order to do it. Dean seems convinced that Sam would never have agreed to being possessed, but the truth is that we’ll never know whether he would have agreed to the specifics of Dean’s plan given the choice because Dean made that choice for him. The situation further deteriorated when Sam found out the truth of what Dean had done. In so many ways, Dean has not forgiven him for his past sins (because Dean internalizes this betrayal) and now Sam has the Big Sin to hold against Dean. Let’s be clear, Sam has a right to be angry at Dean for what Dean did to him. That is not in dispute in any way. What frustrated us — and hurt us as fans of Supernatural and of Sam and Dean — is, partly, the manner in which Sam delivered his message. If you browsed the internet after the last two episodes, you may have seen a debate raging over whether Sam’s anger is justified. Over whether he was too harsh on Dean. We would argue that he was justified in his anger, but that we wish the conversation had gone differently. Sam is not a stranger to Big Sins and one would think that while Sam shouldn’t have condoned Dean’s actions, he would have understood them on some level. In fact, as far back as “Faith” we learn that Sam does have a similar compulsion to throw caution to the wind to save Dean simply because he loves him, simply because he is Sam’s brother. This is reiterated in “Mystery Spot” and again in season 4 when we learn that Sam tried to sell his soul in exchange for Dean but nobody was buying. It’s not impossible or uncharacteristic to believe that Sam will forgive Dean completely (or, at least, forgive him and then repress any lingering feelings), as some people are worried about or even hoping for, depending on their point of view. Furthermore, blaming Dean from stopping him from dying to close the Gates of Hell was as petty as Dean blaming Sam for not telling him when he had no soul. Sam may have been ill, but he had the autonomy to reject or accept Dean’s pleas to stop the trials. He needs to own that choice like he wants Dean to own the choice he made regarding Ezekiel/Gadreel and the way Dean handled the situation once Sam was more or less functional. In the same way, Dean should never have been angry with a soulful Sam for something his soulless self did. All that kind of blame does is confuse the issue. They have more than enough real sins to blame each other for that we don’t need to add other ones to the list. Like we said in the beginning, we’re not here to say that Sam was too harsh. If anything, Dean has not actually said the words “I’m sorry” to Sam for what he did, and it’s possible that Sam isn’t in a place to hear “I’m sorry, Sammy” just yet and that is completely valid. Unfortunately, what Dean did was take what happened to Sam and make it all about him. In the past – when Sam has committed sins that directly impacted Dean — this has been an acceptable reaction, but here it was not. When it came time for Dean to apologize, he trailed off instead. The sentiment was definitely there, but the words were not. And words, more than anything else, are what the Winchesters need to deliver. The problem with the brothers is that they’ve both spent so long repressing hurt and betrayal and anger that it’s become second nature to them. They have emotional conversations, but they still hold on to their lingering anger. When Dean aired the fact that he still holds Ruby against Sam in “Southern Comfort”, the show negated the honesty of that confession by not allowing Dean to remember that he had said this. So instead of the two of them finally talking out their problems, the feelings were once again buried. Sam took Dean’s anger and then let it fester within himself, while Dean didn’t even know that he let his anger out. Additionally, there’s the fact that Dean is, as far as we know, completely unaware of what Sam went through in “Mystery Spot”. Oversights like these are what have created larger chasms for the brothers, because not only would Dean be able to address Sam’s tendency to internalize (as we mentioned, this is another manifestation of Sam’s penchant for running), but it may also give Dean more security as far as Sam is concerned, making him less apt to cling to the point of suffocation. Jeremy Carver has said that he is hoping to, in a way, “fix” the Winchesters’ relationship. There’s no doubt that it’s not as conflict-free as it used to be — although one could make the argument that the two brothers always had conflict because of their fundamental personality traits — but now there’s certainly a great deal of anger, betrayal, and secrets festering between them. One of the most important things to realize is that in order to build Sam and Dean back up, they do need to break them down. While it’s difficult to watch, it’s also necessary to see it stripped to the bone; however, what the fans need to see is some sliver of hope that there is that light at the end of the tunnel and therein lies the current issue. The real problem with Sam’s speech at the end of “Sharp Teeth” is that it was so harsh in the sense that it really gave such little hope that the situation could be improved. Sam is right, Dean’s claim that they’re family can’t erase the sins they have committed — either against the world in each other’s names or against each other, whether for good or bad reasons, despite the fact that that they’ve both used it as the sole explanation for their reason at different times. That said, Sam’s statement also solves nothing, it only further shows that both brothers would rather be with each other, no matter the circumstances, than be without the other. This is still an aspect of their dependency, but we would rather see them be happy to be together because they bring out the best in each other than see them be miserable and together because they cannot resolve their issues. At the same time, his ultimatum that they could work as colleagues or really have no relationship at all came from his frustration with Dean, and likely their relationship as a whole, but there was no indication to either Dean or the audience that this situation could be repaired if only both of them aired their grievances (finally!) and compromised on a solution (which we will get to shortly). We know that Sam loves Dean as Dean loves him. Yes, Sam is a runner, but he still loves his brother. When Dean died in “Mystery Spot” or when he went to Hell, Sam was utterly desperate to find a way to save his brother. At the end of “Exile on Main St.” a soulless Sam told Dean that “it’s just better with you around”. Furthermore, he tells him in the same scene that Dean’s existence in Lisa and Ben’s life puts them in danger. This was the purest version of Sam as far as logical conclusions and he understood this. At the end of the day, the point is that Sam got into the Impala with Dean after the end of their talk in “Sharp Teeth” and admitted that it was better when they could share the “crappiness” of their lives together. His speech was harsh, and while it’s clear that he loves Dean, we really wish there had been a bit more hope at the end of his declaration, or some indication of a way to fix this problem or that he even wants to fix this problem. Sam seems to recognize the problem, but he posed no way in which to go about fixing the situation. Meanwhile, Dean was clearly distraught at Sam’s ultimatum to him, but agreed to join Sam regardless. When his go-to catch phrase (“but we’re family!”) didn’t fix the situation instantly, he still chose to take a furious Sam back into his life because, as we’ve seen, Dean would rather have any Sam with him than no Sam at all. The situation is dire, but it can be fixed. But let’s be clear that we do not desire perfection from the brothers. On the contrary, infallibility holds no entertainment value. We assume that even when the brothers work out their issues, they will lapse again in some way. Decades of conditioning, both internal and external, don’t disappear. The brothers merely need to work on a way to cultivate their dependency back into an asset instead of a weapon that has the potential to hurt themselves and others. Continuing post. |
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| EjamiShipper | Feb 5 2014, 02:10 PM Post #49 |
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Part 2. This is an excellent article and I encourage you to read it. Source/Many Thanks: http://www.screenfad.com/supernatural/supernatural-making-sam-and-dean-winchester-brothers-again-12845 Supernatural: Making Sam and Dean Winchester Brothers Again We examine how the Winchester brothers ended up at this point and how the show can mend their relationship again By Clarissa on February 3, 2014 Final page: The proposed solution… How Do You Make Sam and Dean Brothers Again? The fact is, the situation must be fixed. With nearly five years of enduring conflict, resentment and secrets between the brothers, it’s understandable that fans might be frustrated by yet one more thing that causes problems between Sam and Dean. Their agreement in the season 8 finale basically tricked the fans into thinking that at least some of their problems were solved, that is until Sam gave up again and Dean came swooping in with an angel to save him. If this is truly the writers’ attempt to adjust Sam and Dean’s relationship so that they can essentially stop hurting each other and other people then it must not only be followed through, it must also be resolved soon. By the end of the season at the latest. We cannot have Sam and Dean finally come to important realizations about themselves and each other and then go back to hiding things from each other in season 10 or once against being pulled apart by betrayal or differing opinions, because really, by season 10, we should be on the road to recapturing the feel of season 1 and the majority of season 2: strong arcs and emphasis on the adventures of the brothers and less emphasis on contrived drama that constructs desperate circumstances for them in order to draw them into arcs that are not really about them anymore. A problem in some recent arcs has been the fact that they don’t necessarily connect to them in a substantial way, but Sam and Dean react to them and then get drawn into the situation. The enduring legacy of the arcs of seasons 1-5 is that so much of it was personal for Sam and Dean. Season 8 was similar because closing the Gates of Hell was so personal to the Winchesters after the way in which multiple demons have impacted their lives over the years. But stories such as the leviathans or even the fallen angels simply catch Sam and Dean’s attention not because of personal stakes (beyond the friends/victims that these villains take from them, who are used to create a connection between the brothers and the story), but because Sam and Dean simply have to step in to stop the bad guys once again. This is why we were so pleasantly surprised by Sam telling Dean about the leftover grace and Dean telling Sam the truth about the Mark of Cain so easily in “Sharp Teeth”. This level of disclosure and truth is usually pulled out after episodes of shifty lies and teeth-pulling. It appeared that it was the start of a new chapter in the Winchesters’ relationship, a very small but important step to addressing their issues, but then hope seemed to be lost by Dean lying to Sam about the footage of Garth running from the hospital and the end of Sam’s speech. If, however, the true reunion of Sam and Dean was the next step after their earlier honesty then at least we’re working towards something here and it should — God willing — be resolved by the end of the season. The easiest possible resolution is that the writers finally stop manufacturing conflict between Sam and Dean. Even Supernatural creator Eric Kripke has admitted that conflict between the brothers — or plain old drama — is not a bad thing. He’s not wrong. The problem is that conflict becomes repetitive and annoying when the same scenarios are constantly repeated and no one actually learns from it. Conflict is a good storytelling mechanism when it allows for character growth or it is finally resolved. Stopping conflict doesn’t actually resolve the two conflicting character traits of Sam and Dean (and we’ll get to that soon), but once the boys are finally able to truly work out their issues, the writers need to stop putting them in situations where they are forced to lie to the other because of betrayal or because of an action they believe the other will not approve of in general. The writers also need to stop putting Sam in near-death situations because the truth of the situation is that Dean will never sit back and watch Sam die and the audience does understand this. Dean will always choose Sam, above himself, above the world. The closest Dean has come to acceptance of Sam’s death was he did this was when Sam told him he had to accept Sam’s sacrifice to the apocalypse, however even then, Dean continued to research ways to get Sam back and even wanted to die alongside his brother. It would feel like a betrayal of Dean’s core characteristics — even the pure love he has for his brother that is accompanied by none of the selfishness of not wanting to be alone — if Dean sat back and watched Sam die. In order to not put Dean in a situation where he feels desperate to override Sam’s choices, the writers need to keep Sam alive and healthy and in full control of his faculties for more than five episodes. This would be a benefit to both Sam and Dean, because it would keep Dean from having to constantly make these decisions and it would remind us that Sam is also a world class hunter, fully capable of taking care of himself and of his brother. In addition, this manufactured conflict takes away from new and interesting storylines. For example, we’ve barely spent any time with the big angel war this season in favor of so much conflict between the boys and while we’re always happy to spend time with Sam and Dean, we do wish they would be able to focus both of their energies on external forces instead of internal problems. Watching the two of them fighting their enemies in sync is always an amazing thing to behold, so instead of watching Sam and Dean fight, we’d rather see them fighting others. But, like we said, not putting the brothers in contrived situations doesn’t solve their base problems. If we address the two core characteristics we discussed in the previous section, the best solution to get the Winchester brothers back on track and back in a brotherhood that they both value is compromise. First, Sam needs to stop threatening Dean with his independence, because it triggers Dean’s defense mechanism of wanting to keep him close, thus suffocating Sam and continuing the cycle. In addition, Sam needs to reconcile his own self-worth so that he doesn’t want to die every time he’s faced with death (which also triggers Dean’s need to control). He needs to accept his importance to Dean and value that importance as his brother values him. In addition, Sam also needs more of a support system and more friends. The truth is that Dean has seemingly closer bonds with secondary characters than Sam does and this has very often been the case, even in the early seasons. We are told Sam is the sympathetic and empathetic ear, but we are shown that Dean is more capable of forming connections with strangers than Sam is. Seeing Sam bond with Castiel was so enjoyable because it’s so rare, but Sam needs to have more friends so that he can feel he has more independence from only having Dean. Bonding with characters like Castiel, Charlie or even Garth is important for Sam. He seems to connect with Jody in recent episodes, but that’s also not only a rarity, it doesn’t actively translate to closeness, not the way the secondary characters do with Dean. We would like to see far more of it because it would help Sam feel more independent even if Dean is still in his life 24/7. Meanwhile, Dean needs to figure out how to reconcile his base clinging characteristic with Sam’s need for independence. First, Dean needs to work on building his own self-esteem, so that he doesn’t derive it entirely from Sam. As much as Dean has spent so long caring for Sam and loving him, he needs to internalize Sam’s speech in “Trial and Error” (much as Sam himself does, although they both seem to want to die for different reasons). Secondly, Dean has to learn that he cannot control every situation or other people’s actions. Sam may inevitably make a mistake in the future, but Dean cannot remove Sam’s choices as he has done in the past. Likewise, Sam needs to stop throwing himself on his sword so that Dean doesn’t feel cornered to save his life. Of course, a big part of the solution is also communication. For lack of a better plan, someone needs to lock the brothers in a room and not let them come out until they have worked out all of their issues, until they have fully expressed their feelings and truly forgiven one another for the betrayals they committed, but communication is nothing without reconciling the two basic characteristics. Even if, hypothetically, Dean had told Sam about the Gadreel possession in episode 9.02, it still would not have changed the fact that Dean had done this to Sam in a desire to control the situation. The same goes for Sam….even eventual honesty cannot negate that he falls into the habit of running from himself, his anger, a bad situation, Dean, or the truth. Communication must go hand-in-hand with the compromise of their base personalities, otherwise attempts at both communication and reconciliation will mean nothing. In addition, what Sam failed to convey in his speech is that whether they’re brothers or not, that doesn’t solve their internal problems. Working alone doesn’t solve Sam’s “death wish”, or his belief that dying is the only way to redeem himself for his sins. Going off to live a “normal life” not only negates his previous choices to give that up, but it also won’t address his internal issues. This was never more displayed than in “First Born” when, even without Dean in the picture, Sam still wanted Castiel to kill him “for the greater good”, or the fact that Sam confessed that he always knew he was “impure” even when he had no idea demon blood was running through his veins. Who is to say that moving into a house with a white picket fence will magically “cure” him of his problems and absolve him of his sins? At the same time, riding with Sam is not going to magically give Dean the self-esteem that he needs in order to stop clinging to Sam so much. In addition, bringing other people into the picture — friends, love interests, even father figures like Bobby (as much as we’d love him to smack some sense into these boys) — also wouldn’t solve either of Sam and Dean’s problems. These problems that have not only dominated their relationship so long are individual and collective journeys, but have also added to the conflict; Sam often feels replaced and Dean sometimes uses the declaration of “like family” in an attempt to hold onto and control people, even if his intentions are pure. Only they can address their internal issues and only Sam and Dean can forgive each other and repair their relationship. While getting insight into themselves and each other from characters by way of outsider point of view, like Crowley and Castiel, is important and could help them along the way, hinging their “recoveries” on other people only gives them new outlets to focus these destructive feelings onto or a substitute for the person they really need to come to terms with. When we say Sam needs friends, we don’t mean that it will cure him of his problems. What it will do is allow him to have more independence from Dean so that he doesn’t feel as if Dean is the only thing that he has, triggering his desire for freedom and the endless repetitive cycle. When we say Dean needs to learn self-esteem we don’t mean he has to live independently of Sam, only that he has to learn that he is a person worthy of existing on his own, in addition to wanting to live for — and with — Sam because he loves him. Both boys have attempted to use other people to solve their “issues” or change their lives and it always ended in disaster because other people are not the cure for their internal problems. Sam forcing Dean to recognize that they have a problem was a good first step, but now Sam also has to help Dean understand what the problem is, because this is something Dean is unclear on and Sam seems to know it. That’s not to say that the entire onus is on Sam, but the truth is that with regards to their current situation, Sam is more enlightened and if he waits around for Dean to figure out what’s wrong we may all be waiting until the next apocalypse. This is also why Sam saving Dean from any darkness that the Mark of Cain might bring about would also be important for Dean understanding Sam and vice versa, because it’s another good starting point in their journey towards better understanding. In any argument, there’s often one person who gets the ball rolling towards a resolution. Dean is not at a point where he can figure out his own issues or how to solve their joint ones. But if Sam can start the dialogue between them, both brothers can make concessions, air their grievances and work on forgiving themselves and each other. The truth of the matter is this: Sam and Dean will never be normal. It’s possible that they will both die young during a hunt or they may end the series driving off into the sunset with “work to do”. In order for them to be able to go on and for the show to retain its core relationship in a healthy manner, Supernatural must bring them back to a point where they want to be together because they bring out each other’s best characteristics: love, happiness, devotion, and strength. The Winchesters are heroes and they’re often heroes because of their innate goodness and because of the strength they derive from each other. This is the love that started the apocalypse but also ended it. It’s fragile and crumbling right now but it can become strong again and it’s important to both the characters and the series that their relationship is mended. Sam and Dean have been dealt lives and roles in a world that they are bound to see through. It’s unfair what Fate has brought into their lives and they have changed their paths on many occasions, but the truth is that they are, as they told Metatron when they first met him, “the friggin’ Winchesters”. Unlike Garth, they can’t retire to a normal life (or even the life of a domestic werewolf) because they are too well-known to the universe’s big players. We have seen how their loved ones and significant others can be put in harm’s way when a demon, for example, wants to catch their attention. We saw it happen to Lisa and Ben months after Dean parted ways with them and we even saw it happen to people like Sarah Blake and other former victims they had saved in the past. It could very well have happened to Amelia one day if a demon got tired of Sam’s retirement and needed him for some purpose. And don’t even get us started on how poor Jess was sacrificed so that the boys could eventually assume their roles in the universe’s grand plan. Maybe one day, in death, they can find peace. Or maybe they can retire from active hunting and work the phones. But that’s not today. Instead, Sam and Dean must find a way to be happy and fulfilled in the life they are destined to lead. There’s nothing wrong with Sam and Dean being #1 to each other, we just want to make sure other people don’t die in the process. There’s a way to bring these boys back together on even ground and with all of the benefits that their kind of pure love and devotion can bring. If season 9 is can accomplish that and finally have them moving to a better foundation again, many Supernatural fans will likely be thrilled and we can get back to seeing the bad guys get ganked, Winchester-style. As always, please share your own thoughts in the comments section below. And, since this is a hot-button topic for some, please respect the opposing viewpoints of other fans. |
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| Julian | Feb 6 2014, 03:31 AM Post #50 |
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Expert Dream Interpreter
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Okay. So I don't think Sam is possessed because I really do think Sam wouldn't save Dean if Dean died. He's already done it before. When Sam sacrificed himself to off the Laviathan (I hated those things), Sam didn't look for Dean. Instead, he found a girl and tried to stop hunting. Sam hasn't always wanted this life and that is why if Dean died, he wouldn't try to bring him back. He thinks the "life of hunting" is a life of suffering and loves his brother so much, he'd rather let him rest than have to go through it over and over again. I'm so glad that they are finally dealing with this though. They have been repeating this over and over, but it seems they are finally going to face some truths here. They are finally bringing it to a head. |
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| EjamiShipper | Feb 6 2014, 04:21 PM Post #51 |
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Point taken. Sam from the very beginning always wanted a "normal life". He was brought into the "hunter life" to basically find their father, granted. BUT, choose to stay in the life after his girlfriend was murdered and father, etc. Many things factored his decision at that time. FF, Sam life wasn't always going to be about hunting? I think he pretty much decided that he was in the "life" after doing it so long. Being Lucifer (plot point taken) and then enduring all those trials. YES, I hated that ridiculous Leviathan story as well (probably SPN's worst season if you ask me) but the writing on certain stories plot points to me anyway gives you whiplash. (I would accredit that to HW changes during crucial storyarcs.) They are going to keep hunting, they are brothers, they won't dessert each other. If you watched "Scarifice" IMHO - I really don't think Dean was the blame. It was Megatron and Castiel at fault in that whole big ass dilemma. Sam would have never had to get to that point of wanting to "die/scarifice" himself if it wasn't for the problem that they created, not Dean. Dean maybe a bit selfish and love his brother too much (some people see that as character flaws) but the same things or different character flaws could be pointed out for Sam. It's apples and oranges, you know? The writers addressing this in S9 is maybe something that needs to be addressed. I am hoping that it doesn't ruin Dean and Sam's EPIC BROMANCE though. I always loved that about them. |
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| EjamiShipper | Feb 6 2014, 04:23 PM Post #52 |
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Oh and as for Gadriel possessing Sam. I was more or less speculating that. Maybe Cas didn't get enough out of his body (Gadriel's grace) and it's effecting his decisions/thoughts. (Much like a repeat of S6 and soulless Sam but with a little more of a personality.) |
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| Julian | Feb 6 2014, 05:25 PM Post #53 |
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I don't think this will destroy Sam and Dean's brotherhood, but will make it stronger unless... the 10th season has them going head to head... I really hope the latter is not the case. |
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| EjamiShipper | Feb 6 2014, 06:58 PM Post #54 |
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I am hoping they won't. Dean and Sam have the "most epic bromance" I have ever seen on TV. They really do when it comes down too it though! I think what has hurt the character development/continuity was the changes in HW's TBH. They tend to flip-flop on the character's motivations or sense of direction/purpose.Clearly it was shown more in some the earlier seasons/stories. I think now they are making it prevelant to finally address the issue once and for all though. Put it too bed so to speak. |
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| EjamiShipper | Feb 6 2014, 08:27 PM Post #55 |
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This is pretty funny, enjoy! Misha Gets Pied Supernatural is currently filming its 17th episode, aka the directorial debut of Misha Collins. And today the actor released a quick video revealing how Jared and Jensen showed their love and appreciation for their co-star. Enjoy, and mark your calendars for March 25, when Misha’s episode airs. Workplace harassment Full Credit/Many Thanks to Mischa Collins! NO COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT INTENDED. ALL RIGHTS BELONG TO THE OWNER OF THIS VIDEO. SOURCE: http://www.supernatural.tv/?p=3933 Edited by EjamiShipper, Feb 6 2014, 08:28 PM.
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| Julian | Feb 8 2014, 04:31 AM Post #56 |
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haha. They are really weird, but it's because they're really close. I agree with you that the HW changes has caused the inconsistency, but I do believe the current regime is trying to bring it back while taking what's happened since. |
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| EjamiShipper | Feb 8 2014, 12:20 PM Post #57 |
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It's true they have the most EPIC "BROMANCE" because they are so tight. Plus I honestly think that JA and JP really know and have developed the characters so well - that they have fleshed out everything - that they make you believe they are actually brothers. But because there have been so many HW changes thru the years, it reflects why the character (s) personality/inconsistencies (core) has really reflected so much. I feel like they are schizo at times. I'm like wait, Dean wasn't like that last episode or season or wait Sam didn't feel that way last season or episode... It gives you whiplash. It seems like Jeremy Carver and Robert Singer are fleshing this out once and for all! Hallelujah!
Edited by EjamiShipper, Feb 8 2014, 12:22 PM.
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| EjamiShipper | Feb 9 2014, 02:47 PM Post #58 |
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As I have said many times before I subscribe to a SPN fan forum thru emails and well, I thought this was worth the read. Very interesting POV from the members.
I think it's safe to say any longtime fan that loves the show and the characters is right there with you!
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| Julian | Feb 11 2014, 02:59 AM Post #59 |
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Very interesting thoughts. I love family dynamics. I guess that's why I chose my profession.
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| EjamiShipper | Feb 13 2014, 01:55 PM Post #60 |
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Really can I ask what you do for a living? You know what pm me.
Edited by EjamiShipper, Feb 13 2014, 03:55 PM.
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I think what has hurt the character development/continuity was the changes in HW's TBH. They tend to flip-flop on the character's motivations or sense of direction/purpose.
4:40 AM Jul 11