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| Simple question; Regarding the composition and the text | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Mar 8 2015, 06:13 PM (438 Views) | |
| apv | Mar 8 2015, 06:13 PM Post #1 |
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Dear Emma, I've been reading your's and Rebbeca Maloy's articles. But, of course, my perspective is not academic or musicological but more from the point of view of a composer, a Portuguese composer. And from that point of view I've choosed two texts from Psalm 37. The first one: [2] Domine, ne in furore tuo arguas me, neque in ira tua corripias me [3] quoniam sagittae tuae infixae sunt mihi, et confirmasti super me manum tuam and the second one, that is object of many considerations and analysis in the articles and in the book: [22] Ne derelinquas me, Domine Deus meus; ne discesseris a me. Is it an acceptable choice, regarding the constraints or/and the rules that have been proposed? Considering the 3 to 5 minutes initial timeframe, I think I might have arround 4 minutes written for that particular Choir (treble, altus, tenors and basses) and organ. I have still a long time to finish but the question should be asked now. Best wishes António Pinho Vargas |
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| Emma Hornby | Mar 8 2015, 07:50 PM Post #2 |
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These are really good choices of texts, yes! In the Old Hispanic liturgy, texts like that would almost certainly have been associated with Lent, in case that helps you choose your direction for the musical setting. You might like to read Augustine's commentary on Psalm 37 (there is probably a portuguese translation on the internet somewhere - English version here: http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/1801038.htm (they have it as psalm 38 there - they must be following the protestant psalm numbering). The Iberian cantors will definitely have known Augustine's commentaries, and you might find they inspire you a bit too. If you have more questions, don't hesitate! |
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| Elsa De Luca | Mar 9 2015, 04:48 PM Post #3 |
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Muito bemvindo no nosso forum, António Pinho Vargas. Não hesite em nos contactar caso tivesse mais perguntas. Melhores cumprimentos, Elsa De Luca |
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| apv | Mar 10 2015, 10:27 AM Post #4 |
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Obrigado Elsa de Luca |
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| Raquel Rojo Carrillo | Mar 19 2015, 03:37 PM Post #5 |
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Hello António Pinho Vargas, Welcome to our forum and thank you very much for your questions. As Emma says, those are great texts that would fit well with Lenten occasions, or, if you are thinking about a contemporary setting, any situation that has to do with repentance, initiation and persecution, topics that recur in Old Hispanic Lenten chants (more on these and other Lenten topics can be found in Hornby, Emma and Rebecca Maloy, Music and Meaning in Old Hispanic Lenten Chants: Psalmi, threni and the Easter Vigil Canticles (Woodbridge, Suffolk: Boydell & Brewer, 2013). I would like to add to her comments something about how the Biblical texts were treated in the Old hispanic chants. I have observed this in the genre of chants that I am currently analysing, the vespertinus (first chant of the Old Hispanic vespers, which is present in most of the surviving manuscripts), and my observations coincide with those found by Hornby and Maloy in the aforementioned Lenten chants they studied, and with some of Nils A. Nadeau's study of one of the Old Hispanic chant manuscripts (Nadeau, Nils Andre, ‘“Pro Sonorum Diversitate vel Novitate”: The Singing of Scripture in the Hispano-Visigothic Votive Masses’ (unpublished PhD thesis, Cornell University, Ithaca, New York, 1998)): although the Old Hispanic chants draw their texts from the Bible (especially from the Psalter), in the great majority of cases (though not all!) these texts do not coincide in all of their words with their source; instead, they often present a new ordering for biblical words and verses, and/or alterations to these words. This also happens in plainchant genres from other liturgies, as already noticed by previous authors (see for example McKinnon, James, The Advent Project: the later-seventh-century creation of the Roman Mass proper (California: University of California Press, 2000), p.103). These modifications of the source-texts are sometimes very subtle (cases that might be owed to the particular version or translation of the Bible that was used). In most cases, however, they are quite significant—we can find, for example, changes in different properties of one or more words (voice, tense, number, mood, time, etc.), as well as combinations of different biblical verses or books within a chant verse, shortened versions of biblical verses, vocatives such as 'Domine' (O Lord!) that are added to the original scriptural passages, repetitions of biblical verses’ sections, or even free paraphrases that are based on such verses. These modifications seem to respond to the liturgical occasion to which the chant was intended for, and to a deliberate attempt to create a new type of item for the liturgy, a musical item, which had a different role from that of the readings and prayers. In other words: feel free to modify the texts if necessary. Best wishes, Raquel Edited by Raquel Rojo Carrillo, Mar 19 2015, 03:38 PM.
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| Alison Willis | Jul 21 2015, 06:38 PM Post #6 |
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Can I first say how interesting I am finding all these discussions. I too have a simple question to do with the text I am working with currently. I am developing a piece around the Cantus Ad Acccedentes (Gustate et videte) and would like to know if this is appropriate to the context of the project? Whilst extremely interested in the project from a liturgical and historical perspective I am primarily a composer rather than a musicologist so would appreciate your feedback! Thanks. Alison |
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| Emma Hornby | Jul 22 2015, 08:31 PM Post #7 |
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Totally appropriate! Just shout if you need any advice about the text or interpreting the neumes (if you are doing that), or anything else. Sounds exciting :-) |
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| Alison Willis | Jul 23 2015, 11:36 AM Post #8 |
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Thank you Emma. The current version of the text that I am working with is: "Gustate et videte quam suavis est Dominus, Alleluia, Alleluia, Alleluia. Benedicam Dominum in omni tempore semper laus eius in ore meo, Alleluia, Alleluia, Alleluia." Does this look OK? The more I research the less I seem to know! Alison |
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| Emma Hornby | Jul 24 2015, 08:44 PM Post #9 |
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There are several different versions of that chant - some with alleluias and some without. Not sure where the version you are looking at has come from, exactly - if you let me know, I can check it for you. There's one in the Real Academia de la Historia in Madrid (manuscript Aemil 56) which has "Gustate et videte quam suavis est Dominus, Alleluia. Verse: Benedicam Domino [NB I think I'd expect domino not dominum in your text] in omni tempore semper laus eius in ore meo, Alleluia. Verse: In domino laudabitur anima mea audiant mansueti et letentur alleluia Verse: Redimet dominus animas servorum suorum et non derelinquet omnes qui sperant in eum. Gloria [+rest of doxology] amen. Alleluia Verse: Repletum est gaudio os nostrum et lingua sua exultatione, alleluia. You don't have to use that much text at all!! They certainly do short versions like the one you mentioned; it's just in case you want a bit more text for any reason. |
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8:25 PM Jul 11