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Surprised about Norrie? Click here *spoilers*; For those who feel betrayed by Norrie
Topic Started: Jul 10 2006, 05:29 PM (572 Views)
Se7en
Unregistered

I've been thinking a lot lately about how much Norrington changed from the first movie to this one, especially after reading quite a few posts here and elsewhere complaining about the change.

Well, I've come to the conclusion that he really hasn't changed that much, if at all.

In the first movie, there is no explanation, not even a clue as to the relationship Lizzie and Norrie had maintained since the day they picked Will up. Does Norrie even love Elizabeth? Or is it that he wants to marry the governor's daughter to gain further honor/favor with the governor?

As evidence that he only saw Elizabeth as a profit (not a person), I submit a quote from the first movie for inspection:
"This promotion throws into sharp relief that which I have not yet *ACHIEVED* - a marriage to a fine woman."

And when Elizabeth was kidnapped, he made sure that he was the leader/planner of the crew that would go and save her. That is why he is so irritated that Will suggests that they use Jack. He doesn't want to enlist the help of a pirate; instead, he wants all the credit of saving her.

And after they rescue Elizabeth and she suggests they go back for Will, he doesn't want to because it would mean that he supports the act of pirating. [mjeyds]

And then he makes sure Elizabeth's kidnappers are killed...for honor.

Uh, at least that's what I think. *shrug*

Any thoughts?

It also explains why he didn't really care when Lizzy pretended to faint in the 2nd installment. He didn't see her as profit anymore, seeing as how she was to be arrested.
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KrissXed
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Interesting...

The fact of the matter is simple. We did not see the true Norrington in the first movie, we saw only the facade that he pulls over himself to show to society. I have always said that myself and Norrington are very much alike, and that statement still rings true today.I have never put into words on this board what kind of man I think Norrington truely is, or what I truely think of the psychology that lies behind my favorite character, but I will now.

Norrington is Jack, but on the other side of the spectrum. Look at it. Everything they both do is for personal gain in some way or another, the only difference is they have different ways of going about it, and Liz said it in this movie. She said it to Jack. She said you're going to do something corageous becuase you're going to want to reap the benifits that follow. That is what Norrington does. He does the corageous thing, the brave honorable thing, and then he reaps the benefits. He gives himself to others, to the crown, to his men, and everything he does is so deeply appreciated that he is rewarded for it later.

On another side, both men are truely observational. They both plan and decieve in their minds, and things usually go as planned. And when they don't they always land on their feet and keep going from there, making up new plans as problems arise. Think about it.

Who was the one in DMC, the only one, that noticed the tension between Liz and Jack, and who brought it to Liz's attention? Who brought to Lizzie's attention the real reason Will might beon the Flying Dutchman. Who was it that noticed in a heartbeat that Jack had put Davey's heart in the jar of sand, without already knowing that Jack had opened the chest in the first place as Will did?

And let's look at this shall we? Why do you think Norrington ran away with the chest? What was the point of that? He already had the heart, so why run with the chest too? He couldn't have known they would catch up with him, so he must have wanted it for something. So I will insert this prediction for review...

Is it possible that Norrington would have tried to trick Beckett? Maybe give him the chest without the key, keep the heart, key, and letters of mark for himself. Maybe return to the Pearl?

I think Norrington is going to play a very very large role in the third movie (if he doesn't I'll be POed) and I think we will see what kind of a man he truely is.

That is all for now... :D
-Kriss-
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Se7en
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Quote:
 
Is it possible that Norrington would have tried to trick Beckett? Maybe give him the chest without the key, keep the heart, key, and letters of mark for himself. Maybe return to the Pearl?


*explode*

And I'm glad to see someone agrees with me. He hasn't really changed. We just finally see him for what he really is.

Now, I wouldn't say Jack does everything for personal gain. He was rowing away from the Black Pearl, but then he came back. And I dunno...in this one, he seemed much more compassionate than the first one. To explain this better, I'll wait until I see it more. :P :P
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pirategirl0306
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True, we have now seen two completely different sides of Norrington. The question is, which is the real James? Is he really a man of honor, and desperation has driven him to become a "rum-pot deckhand what takes orders from pirates"? Or has he really been this clever and sneaky all along? I think POTC 3 holds the answers...

And I think the real reason he didn't care about Elizabeth fainting on the beach is that he was too intent on finally killing Jack. Although that was probably the funniest part of the whole movie! :laugh:
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KrissXed
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Quote:
 
True, we have now seen two completely different sides of Norrington. The question is, which is the real James? Is he really a man of honor, and desperation has driven him to become a "rum-pot deckhand what takes orders from pirates"? Or has he really been this clever and sneaky all along? I think POTC 3 holds the answers...


We only saw the proper Norrington in the first movie because that was all that was needed for the plot. If you take his character at face value in P1, you will think he is some uptight gentleman that onle cares about what other people think. But if you truely look into his actions, motives, and words chosen, you will see him for what he truely is. I think he has always been sneaky and clever, always having the wheels in his head spinning, always thinking about how to handle things. I think he is quicker and much smarter than Jack (and definitly a better swordsman :laugh:) and I think we will see much more of this in P3. :D

Let me just say it for the record.. again..

I :heart: :norrie:
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Se7en
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Quote:
 
having the wheels in his head spinning


Reminds me of that one part in the movie...

*laughs*

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KrissXed
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:laugh: No pun intended...
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KrissXed
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OOOO... I thought you meant the special smilies that you can't find here....

When youpost replies, see that little box on the left? With the smilies in it? In the box it says 'Show all' Click that. :D
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ElvenLight
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KrissXed
Jul 10 2006, 12:16 PM
Interesting...

The fact of the matter is simple. We did not see the true Norrington in the first movie, we saw only the facade that he pulls over himself to show to society. I have always said that myself and Norrington are very much alike, and that statement still rings true today.I have never put into words on this board what kind of man I think Norrington truely is, or what I truely think of the psychology that lies behind my favorite character, but I will now.

Norrington is Jack, but on the other side of the spectrum. Look at it. Everything they both do is for personal gain in some way or another, the only difference is they have different ways of going about it, and Liz said it in this movie. She said it to Jack. She said you're going to do something corageous becuase you're going to want to reap the benifits that follow. That is what Norrington does. He does the corageous thing, the brave honorable thing, and then he reaps the benefits. He gives himself to others, to the crown, to his men, and everything he does is so deeply appreciated that he is rewarded for it later.

On another side, both men are truely observational. They both plan and decieve in their minds, and things usually go as planned. And when they don't they always land on their feet and keep going from there, making up new plans as problems arise. Think about it.

Who was the one in DMC, the only one, that noticed the tension between Liz and Jack, and who brought it to Liz's attention? Who brought to Lizzie's attention the real reason Will might beon the Flying Dutchman. Who was it that noticed in a heartbeat that Jack had put Davey's heart in the jar of sand, without already knowing that Jack had opened the chest in the first place as Will did?

And let's look at this shall we? Why do you think Norrington ran away with the chest? What was the point of that? He already had the heart, so why run with the chest too? He couldn't have known they would catch up with him, so he must have wanted it for something. So I will insert this prediction for review...

Is it possible that Norrington would have tried to trick Beckett? Maybe give him the chest without the key, keep the heart, key, and letters of mark for himself. Maybe return to the Pearl?

I think Norrington is going to play a very very large role in the third movie (if he doesn't I'll be POed) and I think we will see what kind of a man he truely is.

That is all for now... :D
-Kriss-

Ah, once again a Rumrunner has taken exactly what I feel and expressed it in words far better than I ever could. Kriss, I feel the same about Norrington and I think everything you said made perfect sense. Norrington is Jack for different reasons than Jack is Jack. They do similar things with an entirely different thought process.

I was very pleased to have more of Norrington in this movie, as he is probably my favorite character. I sincerely hope that he has a big juicy role in the last movie (hopefully with a happy ending for him).

For the record: I also :heart: :norrie: !

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KrissXed
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:hug: for Elven. We need to make you an official Norrian mate. :D
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d-rose
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Swabbie
Here's another devoted Norrian. :)
I was sooooo glad to find out that there was more Norrie for us in DMC and that he had turned to the darker side of society... He's so incredibly sexy this way, the ultimate opposite from how he used to look... But let's not get distracted and carried away now.

I too think his looks are his greatest change. As for his 'rude' and sarcastic way of behaving, I think he has always been that way but due to his position he had restricted himself in expressing it. Remember his blunt way of speaking to Lizzie as a child? His tongue can be deadly, I think... I would be so hurt if I were Liz and he asked me how my latest fiancee is doing. Ouch. (But then again, I guess he had every right to say that after what she did to him)
His view on life has changed, though. He seems so bitter now, wich is only understandable. Somehow I can't feel pity for him anymore at all (well, only in the pigs dirt) I think somehow my respect for him is gone... He used to keep his head high, despite the nasty things that happened to him, but now he is so... I don't know, tame. Untill he finds the heart anyway. The he does the piratey thing and I started to respect him at another way, lol.

I wonder, did he resign from his Commodore-ship himself or was he fired? I cannot see Governor Swann doing that -especially not while he personnally adviced the Commodore to commit an act of piracy by letting the Pearl go- and since the governor was at the time the only person with authority to resign him, I think Norrington decided to step back himself. I wonder why... Not because he was troubled by his concsious... Maybe because of all his failures he felt obliged to do so, and decided to go after CJS in personal life... Maybe it was the rum he drank to make all frustration go away and therefor wasn't able to do his tasks anymore... Who knows? What do you think?

For some reason I don't think we'll get to see much more of Norrie in PotCII... They'll have to make decisions what to put in it and what not... and I fear Norrie will not be important enough :(
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pirategirl0306
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I believe that Governor Swann said that Norrington resigned his commision as commodore (which didn't really answer Beckett's question, but it answers yours!). I guess he was just so devastated and ashamed at what he had done that he felt he had to resign. I agree that Gov. Swann wouldn't have fired him.

I agree that we may not see as much of Norrington in POTC 3 as some would like. He's pretty much content now because Jack Sparrow is dead (although he may not know that :unsure: ), he got a full pardon thanks to the letters Elizabeth stole, and he's in the good graces of the current "ruler" of Port Royal. So there's not really much left for him to do. Not being a Norrian and being a bit angry with him, though, I'm not too sad about that! Although Scruffy Norrington was definitely much hotter than Ice Cream Norrington... ;)
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d-rose
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Swabbie
It doesn't make much sense though... is what I'm thinking now. If he resigned himself indeed, why would he want this letters of mark so badly? He doesn't know about his arrest untill Liz must have told him about it and I doubt if she even did so.
And why would Norrington care to get his status of a free man and respect back if he had withdrawn himself from all that on purpose?
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KrissXed
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I think Norrington would have resigned himself feeling it was the only proper thing to do. After having lost his entire crew and gone out on a madmans mission, and coming back empty handed, I believe that all that was left for him was to resign. He could not have stayed in Port Royal after that, I mean, he would have been a laughing stock, so all that was really left for him was to make way for Tortuga and drink himself into a stupor, help him forget what he once was, but in a sense, he yearns for it. I mean, he wasn't Commodore for even an hour befoe Jack showed up and ruined it all. Not only did he save his girl, when Norrington should have been able to do it himself, but he duped them all and escaped. Not once, but three times. Norrington was probably pressured into going after Jack by the crown or his other superiors, and after having failed that mission, he was probably asked to step down, or he figured it was the only option left for him.

But think about it, of course he wants his old life back. He wants things the way they were before Jack ever showed up, and being reinstated will give him all that. And id not being reinstated, then at least becoming a privateer. At least that way he will still be on a ship, and still have some respect from the king.

:D YOu can tell I think about this alot. :D
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nulldevice
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First of all, Norrington's running away with the chest was just a diversion -- he could then simply say, "Oh, I thought the heart was still in it -- Jack must have stolen it and hidden it away!" That would throw off his persuers. He knew exactly what he was doing and for once, he actually outsmarted Jack!!!

Wjy is he doing all this? He wants revenge -- not only initially against Jack, but as Jack correctly pointed out, it was actually WIll that messed things up, by freeing Jack. However, the real blame for Jack's escape was Norrington himself... they could have gone after Jack right away, ort done something to capture him as soon as he went over the wall.

IMO, I think Norrington decided not to go after Jack because he had already made up his mind that he wanted out, that he was ready to resign his commission. So, the bitterness was all implated, I think, from the momemnt Jack got away, WIll got his pardon and Liz decided to opt to be will WIll -- a threefold slap in the face.
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