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Will and daddy Swann
Topic Started: Jul 16 2006, 01:17 PM (263 Views)
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Clearly Will's not getting along very well with his father-in-law-to-be... (Good one for Scrabble, that.) Is that Swann's fault, or Binky's?

As many people wiser than myself have calculated, there's about a year between COTBP and DMC. When COTBP ends, clearly Swann isn't very happy that Lizzy chose Will - and really, with the mores of that time, we can't blame him. In fact, that Swann would allow them to be together at all is an amazing sacrifice on Swann's part. I think we can all agree on that...
Now, at the beginning of DMC, clearly there's still a great deal of friction between Binky and daddy Swann, with the former accusing the latter of a lack of faith in him. Is there any truth to that, you think, or is Swann just being realistic, playing it safe because his daughter's life is at stake? Does it all boil down to Will having a huge inferiority complex? I'm tempted to think so, and it's understandable enough. It's even kind of funny, because if Will's opinion of himself hadn't become much better during the inter-POTC (what with Lizzy loving and mentally supporting him), he wouldn't have felt inferior; he'd have thought it was only right that he was treated like that. Or do you think that maybe Swann really wasn't nice to Will at all, making no secret of the fact that he only put up with him to keep Elizabeth happy?

If we do write it down to Will's inferiority complex, why do you think he'd still not been able to feel accepted after a whole year? Was it because he chose to remain a blacksmith? (At least until the wedding; I think Swann would have tried to get him into a better position afterwards. But maybe he'd tried to do that already, and Will had refused.) Had there been nasty remarks from high and low alike? Had Will embarrassed himself completely at some sort of formal occasion? Did Will maybe (and this is a hugely uncertain and overanalysing maybe) feel guilty for setting a pirate free, even if he couldn't have not done it - and did he perhaps feel guilty for indirectly destroying Norrington's career by doing so, while Norrington had treated him better than most would have by letting him off the hook and withdrawing as competition for Elizabeth's hand - and did that guilt cause Will to feel the need to prove himself, to prove that he was worthy, even more than when he was only trying to impress Elizabeth?
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Scallywag
I'm sure they'll get along eventually, it's the thing with films, and even real life, parents are always cautious about who their children end up with, Will hasn't really proved he's a good enough man to take the Governor's daughter, no, not yet he hasn't but I'm sure by the third one he'll have done something to fix this, the two do seem to have a lot in common, just check out when Daddy Swann breaks the candlestick thing, like father-in-law, like son-in-law. :rolleyes:
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Think too much? Some people think too little, it's good to balance out the thinking and not thinking scales a bit. :P
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:lol: Well put.

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the two do seem to have a lot in common, just check out when Daddy Swann breaks the candlestick thing, like father-in-law, like son-in-law.

Ah, good point! :D I hadn't thought about that one.

As long as we're overthinking: Maybe Will also has issues with daddy Swann because of his own daddy issues? He thought he knew his father (or knew about his father, anyway), but it turns out his father was a filthy much hated pirate instead - so maybe Will's wondering when he'll find out Swann's evil double life (or something).

Sidethought: Has anyone ever wondered how Bootstrap manages to recognise Will, anyway? I mean, he hasn't seen him since he was a tiny little boy - and he wouldn't have seen himself either, as pictures were not quite as common back then as they are now, so the family resemblance can't be the reason for recognition either. So we only have the name confusion to work with, and neither of them seems to be getting that until late. The only excuse Bootstrap had for thinking it was Will is that Jack mentioned that Will helped him get back the Pearl, whereupon Bootstrap presumed he'd turned pirate... So if Jack hadn't mentioned Will, would Bootstrap have recognised him? Most likely not. The story might have taken a very different turn then.
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KrissXed
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Uh...

They had mirrors... didn't they?

I mean, they said that he was a spitting image of his father, andno doubt his fatehr rememebered his own reflection from 13 years or so before. I remember what I looked like ten years ago, even without pictures.

Right? :unsure:
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You guys think too much.

I'm glad I do, 'cause discussing the movie is FUN. Brings it closer to me :P



First of all:
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Sidethought: Has anyone ever wondered how Bootstrap manages to recognise Will, anyway?

Well, *rolleyes*, although nowadays it's obviously hard to believe, Will has been called the spitting image of his father before. So it's likely he looks like his father when he had the same age. I think we also may assume Bootstrap looked a few times into a mirror back in those days, so he probably recognized Will by registrating "Hey that young man looks a lot like me in the Good Old Days... Wait a minute didn't Jack Sparrow mention something about my son lately and didn't that creep just call HIM Mr. Turner a minute ago???" Or something like that anyway :lol:

To get to your original question Dutch, I don't really think the gov has been unfriendly towards Will the entire past year, of wich we don't know anything ofcourse. It's just not in his nature to treat a person without respect as long as a person's behavior doesn't demand that.
Like you said, allowing his daughter to marry a blacksmith is a great sacrifice by the Governor, considering the bright future of a marriage to Commodore Norrington he had faced for her, only for a short time. I think you could best describe their relationship as awkward, and it only becomes more nasty when indeed Liz's life gets at stake. Also you must realise here that Swann shows his lack of faith in Will at the moment when Will has the chance to sail away in order to reach CJS, while Liz is still behind barrs. It's rather understandable that Swann fears the temptation of freedom Will will be facing as soon as he turn his back to Port Royal. On the other hand, he doesn't have solid reasons to doubt Will's loyalty, for he has proven that already- twice in general.

To come to Will's inferiority complex, I didn't really get the impression he now sees his opportunity to prove his qualities towards his father-in-law-to-be? To Will this is merely one of these things in life he faces that make him do the Right Thing. Like he had to save Liz from Barbossa and Jack from the noose. Saving Liz is what he must do now again. To me Will seems such a stubborn Right-Do-er, that in fact he doesn't care wether he makes the right impression or not. I never really saw him as a person with a inferiority-complex... I think Will is aware of the fact that he is not like the people of Liz's society; not living by 'etiquette' but acting more on impulses risen by his feelings of righteousness. And therefor keeps distance from them, not wanting to entirely fit in, as much as they don't want him to fit in their culture.

*takes a deep breath*

Wow. I DO think too much. If only it made more sense too... :mjeyds:
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Scallywag
I think it may be that spitting image thing, there might not have been mirrors around but with swords and the bottom of a tankard he'd see his reflection at some point I guess, and I guess there is some recognition between those of the same family, even if they haven't seen each other in years you always recognise them no matter how much they've changed, and with that connection being stronger being father and son I guess it makes sense he knows.
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