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Jack's Compass; *spoilers*
Topic Started: Jul 20 2006, 07:15 PM (929 Views)
nulldevice
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That's true that all they said was that Jack had to give up the bearings. If he had the compass, he wouldn't actually have to know the true bearings, would he? So, it's possible th emagic compass was obtained later -- otherwise, had anyone realized this, they certainly wouldn't have marooned Jack along with the compass -- either the first or second time.

As to Beckett knowing about the compass, I bet Norrington told him Jack had a compass that "didn't work". Beckett, however, must have some other connections to know about the compass in the first place. Exactly how is hard to say.
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KrissXed
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Okay.. then here's a question... how did he know the bearing to Isle De Muerta?
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d-rose
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Quote:
 
Quote:
 
(d-rose @ Jul 26 2006, 06:26 PM)
How does a cuttler become a Lord anyway?


I'm not sure what you mean here; Cutler is his first name.


Um.. well, in dutch translation it was translated as his profession (just checked my dictionary, a cutler is a knife maker) :P
So... Confusion?!
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Joe Pancake
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DutchS
Jul 26 2006, 12:41 PM
Right!

So... one would almost think that Beckett has had dealings with Tia Dalma himself - but he doesn't seem the type (even ignoring a possibly troubled past between them).

That's exactly what I said in one of the threads over at CB! Beckett has to be connected to her in some way. He has knowledge that even Norrington , "the scourge of piracy in the Caribbean" doesn't possess. I mean think about it. In CotBP, when Norrie is taking inventory of Jack's effects he notes (with obvious eyeroll) "a compass that doesn't point north...". and then in DMC, when Jack tells Liz his compass is unique, Norrie chimes in, "Unique, as in broken." So althought a famed pirate hunter he may be, even HE doesn't know the real value/meaning of that compass. So, in my opinion, Beckett has some pretty significant ties with not only Tia, but with Jack as well. Very thought provoking, his enigmatic back story. Of all the subplots, this one is one of the most interesting to me.
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nulldevice
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Argh... there are two compas threads now, perhaps they should be consolidated? See my comments on the other one about the compass. Norrington is stoill clueless about the compass:
Quote:
 
Jack Sparrow: And whoever possesses that chest possesses the leverage to command Jones to do whatever it is he or she wants, including... saving brave William from his grim fate.

Norrington: You don't actually believe him, do you?

Elizabeth Swann: How do we find it?

Jack Sparrow: With this. My Compass. Is unique.

Norrington: "Unique" here having the meaning of broken.

Jack Sparrow: True enough. This Compass does not point north.


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RumsGone
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DutchS
Jul 26 2006, 11:39 AM
Did he? If he knew the location of the Isla de Muerta, he could have used any old compass. In fact, if he didn't have a normal compass, it would be a lot more difficult to give Barbossa the (normal) bearings. And Barbossa's cruel, but he's not stupid; he'd figure out that there was something going on with the compass, and he'd have taken it.

I had always wondered that very thing, Dutch. Of course, in COTBP, we all assumed that Jack had the bearings because of that compass...but like you, I had wondered how it was that Barbs (sharp as he is) wouldn't have figured it was something special. There was never anything said explicitly about if Jack had/used the compass back then.

Given what we now know, I'm thinking Jack bartered for the compass post-mutiny specifically in order to find the Pearl. The bearings to the Isla de Muerta he may have come upon in much the same way as he got the clue/drawing of the key. It may have been stories and such, and Jack just managed to ferret out how to find the island. :)
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Aurora Knight
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d-rose
Jul 26 2006, 07:21 PM
Um.. well, in dutch translation it was translated as his profession (just checked my dictionary, a cutler is a knife maker) :P
So... Confusion?!


Are you Dutch? Me too! (Well, ok, only a quarter or so, and I don't speak it. *sadness*)

In the English version, his proper name is Cutler Beckett, and Cutler is his first name. It could have been picked by the writers as a reference to his personality, but it's definitely just his name.
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Taryn Sparrow
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This is a new question about the compass - I posted it on this thread so as not to start something entirely.

I read this on IMDB.com and thought I'd post my answer (as well as the question here), so as to stimulate some new ideas.

The question about the compass was what was it pointing to when it obviously wasn't working for Jack?

I replied:

That one could stimulate some really interesting thoughts, I think. What could Jack Sparrow want most in the world - so much so that it interferes with itself? Or is he perhaps thinking so quickly as to how to get one thing that different methods of getting there lead to different paths, and thus different spots on the compass.

Well, we know Jack loves women, the sea, and especially the Black Pearl, (his line: "she's only a ship, mate," I can only see being made because he's trying to dull the pain of losing the Pearl). We know Jack didn't want to die, so perhaps the compass was swinging between RUN TO LAND and FIND THE KEY TO BARGAIN WITH DAVY JONES.

Or maybe there's something else entirely...

So what do you all think? Why could Jack not operate that compass? What does he want?
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RumsGone
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Interestingly, Ted (one of the writers) answered this question at KTTC:

Quote:
 
The reason we included the "Why is the rum always gone?" line was not just as a callback to the first movie; it was intended to remind audiences of the specific circumstances that it referenced, and so act as a cue to what Jack had on his mind: the woman who he was first attracted to and then infuriated with (or: the woman who Jack never would have been infuriated with if he had not been attracted to).

So, the deal with compass: Jack simultaneously wanted Elizabeth and wanted to be as far from Elizabeth as possible. Whichever of those he wanted most would cause him to immediately want the other more ... so the compass would not settle, swinging between "Port Royal" and "antipode of Port Royal" (which is sort-of-but-not-quite Singapore, btw).

(There was much debate about whether, in the first scene aboard the Pearl, to show the compass pointing in a specific direction and have Jack set course in the opposite direction, or to show it as it is in the movie. I think the first would have made it more clear to the audience that something weird was going on with Jack ("he's not going where the compass points? What's up with that?"), but the second is actually more demonstrative of his emotional state)(at least, that was the theory).

And, as long as I'm breaking silence on the compass, let me just say: there's no transference. If it points to a waffle, it's not pointing to the waffle because you're hungry or because you really want to be Belgian or something; it points to the waffle 'cause what you want most is that waffle.

Of course, if you've been hungry for a while, anticipating the most delicious meal you could ever imagine, and for some reason you couldn't partake of that meal, and then you found yourself in the presence of a very interesting waffle ... well, that doesn't mean that you suddenly think the aforementioned meal would not be delicious. It just means that, right then, that waffle seems pretty tempting.

Does that make you a terrible person?


I found this REALLY interesting in light of several lines in the movie. In Tia's shack, it was Jack who piped up with the answer that it was a woman that vexed Jones ('what vexes all men'). It does seem Jack was a bit vexed himself. And Gibbs used those very words at the beginning, after Marty pointed out Jack was acting strange-er. 'Aye, something's got Jack vexed...'

And that of course, brings us to Tia's latching onto the fact that the compass couldn't help Jack find the chest. That either he didn't know what he wanted, or else didn't want to claim it as his own. There would be many reasons why he wouldn't want to claim Liz--she clearly drives him nuts (in both good and bad ways, LOL), she's already been claimed by Will, and of course, he knows that really, she'd have a much more stable (much more better? LOL) life with Will for just a start.

It'll be very interesting to see how all this plays out in P3. :)
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KrissXed
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Oh. My. Gosh. *Bounces up and down*

I love how they write. They write sotries to the point hat it makes perfect sense but only after it has been explained, and then you feel stupid for not having noticed.. It' EXXCELLENT! :lol:

EDIT I just spoke to my mom on the subject. I was explaining it and I said that someone on the board had asked what the compass had been pointing to, and her immediate response was Liz. :blink: I have seen this movie 6 times, her three... and she got this in the first viewing...

:blink:
:unsure:
How sad am I? Did anyone else get this?
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Taryn Sparrow
Wretch
My God, you mean Ted came out and SAID Jack was attracted to Elizabeth!??? Best keep that under wraps or the Jack/Liz shippers will go mad!

As a fanfiction writer myself, (having paired my main character up with Sparrow, as is referenced by my name), that comes as a great blow!! It's hard to write fanfiction when you know the 'reality' of the movie is geared towards something else!!

I think I may be quite sad now....
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KrissXed
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:laugh:

I was already a Liz Jack shipper.... so I'm all for this. And I think she loves him, too... or at least the idea of him.
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mttomb
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Great, so this means there are three hot guys in the film and they're all irresistably attracted to Liz. :rolleyes: It just ain't right. (Yeah, I probably sound bitter. I don't care. :laugh: )
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KrissXed
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Yes, I amd that observation in the first viewing....

It's no longer a love triangle.... it's a love square... :laugh:
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pirategirl0306
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Well, I don't know that Norrie actually loves Elizabeth that much anymore. He did say on the ship, "There was a time when I would have given anything for you to look like that while thinking about me." Although, there was the look on his face when she was kissing Will on Isla Cruces...hmm, maybe he's just pretending not love her anymore! Elizabeth has all the luck.

I find that really interesting that the writers actually made Elizabeth the reason that Jack was having trouble with his compass. After the whole black spot issue, I could understand his confusion, but before that, I wasn't sure. Now we know! It was Lizzie!
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