Black & Gold by Alia Atreides
Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]

Parley Info

New Members:
Quote of the Month:
Popular Threads:
Join the Crew!
Rules & Guidelines
Navigating Parley
FAQ
Introductions

Latest News:
Celebrating 3 Years!
Joinable Groups
"Mother's love, Jack! You should know better than to wake a man when he's sleeping. It's bad luck."

- Joshamee Gibbs, Curse of the Black Pearl

PotC 4 Pics
Pirates of the Caribbean 4
Johnny Depp
Joe Pancake
What's the Last Movie You Saw?
The Person Below Me Game
Ask a Pirate
Our Button:

Affiliates:
Avast, ye maties! We welcome you to Parley with us!

Currently, you be a guest on our ship. This means you can only see certain room on board our ship. If you join our crew, you'll be able to access crewmember-only sections, and use many crew-only features such as customizing yer profile, sending personal messages by messenger pigeon, and votin' in polls. Joinin' us is quick, free, and as painless as it can get!


Make yer mark here!


If ye be already a crew member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Locked Topic
In Defense of Beckett; Who does have some redeaming qualities
Topic Started: Jul 29 2006, 01:21 AM (396 Views)
Alia Atreides
Member Avatar
Journeyman Craftswoman
So I've noticed a lot of people dislike Beckett--he's the villain, it's natural, however unlike Barbossa of the first film, he didn't seem to be the sort of villain that audiences loved to hate. I have quite a few theories on why this is, and I'll probably end up sharing them, but in keeping in mind with the title of this thread, I think perhaps I should point out Beckett's positive traits, and answer for some of his negative ones.

-Ambition - Well...okay, that's also a negative when in the extreme. It is like Aristotle's theories about virtues and vices--in the moderation it is a virtue, but veer to either extreme and it becomes a vice. So there is a such thing as healthy ambition, and though it would sort of go over the line out of healthy ambition to most people--I see no difference between the type of ambition Beckett here has, and for an example...we'll say...ooh...John Adams' ambition early on. Second president of the United States...usually regarded well, until you look back on the fact that he completely suspended the free press, violating the first amendment, and all that stuff relating to the Alien and Sedition Acts. (Yes, I love history, just a little too much, I know). He along with Sam Adams were very instrumental in starting the Revolutionary War--and both believed they would be rewarded for their efforts. But really--I think Beckett falls within human norms in this area. He must hold a very high position within the EITC, and so he isn't just looking out for himself, its the company as well. He's no different than any current CEO in the world today, or any small business owner. If we weren't all consumers, would we want to have competition for our companies?

-Cunning - He's one smart cookie. No denying that. Knowledge is power, and he's got both in abundance. He knows about past histories of the characters, he knows what they are up to throughout the film (nothing like tough guy like Mercer to do your dirty work, and Beckett "giving them an offer they can't refuse"). He can even tell daddy Swann what the little one is up to. He knows how to read people, how to get them to side with him, and so on. In a more charismatic guy, or say Jack--this stuff would sound good, however since its describing Beckett, I think most of its just considered not good.

- Honesty - Seriously, not kidding here. He is honest about things, at least he doesn't outright lie. He admits up front that he knows Jack, he admits that he is out for power and to further his company. Honestly (no pun intended), I think that that counts for a lot more in the long run. He's a villain who isn't about to lie about being a villain. What he does is for profit, for him, for the company, and he's not about to lie about it. It's refreshing.

Now see, what I suppose I object most to is how people are outright against Beckett as a villain. I'm not saying I'd actually want to know this guy, he's a piece of work, but since we are not actually in that world, I can step back and say--yeah, he's pretty cool in a decent villain way.

What I see--not pointing to people here, seriously I'm not, but Beckett's getting treated much the same way Norrington was initially when PotC first came out. Mostly it was younger girls who were going the first time, "oh, he's so evil! He tried to hang Jack!" Or, "Ewwww, he's too old to marry Elizabeth!" or "He was soo mean to Will in that one scene!" Now I think a lot of why some people (read: not all) dislike Beckett is that he is out to get Jack, is willing to arrest and hang Liz, Will, and Norrie, and stops a wedding on that account, etc. It's all business...except for Jack perhaps, I'm sure that it is nothing personal. Beckett is going to mow down people who stand in the way of him and his company. As a villain, and in a character, I simply find that an interesting facet to play with and think about.

I don't know, in the end I suppose I like him better because he is like Elizabeth, but doesn't hide what he is. Both of them want to get what it is they want, and both will go to extreme ends to get it. Liz accepted a proposal to save another man (though apparently willing to follow through with it), didn't follow through with it relying on the man's good graces to release her from the promise, and manipulated Jack and tricked him in order to save the rest of the crew. She deceives to achieve what she wants, and Beckett is honest about what he does, and does not hide anything (that we know of yet).

Really random stuff I guess looking back on my ramblings...but still aimed at defending Beckett as an honest villain, and with perhaps more admirable traits than Elizabeth.

But other thoughts, accusations about my going easy on him 'cause he's easy on my eyes, opinions, calling me on my bs...stuff like that is more then welcome. Disagree with me on a point? Call me on it. I like to hear what others say--sometimes they change my mind, make me look at things differently, or harden my resolve.

But I'd like feedback or other opinions on the defense of dear Beckett.
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Brookworm
Member Avatar
Wretch
I agree with your observations of Beckett. Now that they've been put in a different light than my own, I can see him differently, not the stereotype he was. However I still see him as annoying. I never thought of Norrie in this manner. Perhaps the deep voice and upright character attracted me more so than Beckett's, all animosity towards "Jack's opponent" aside. Of course, I tend to be heavily influenced by what the writers and filmmakers intended to influence me with. I suppose I'm a prime target audience for Disney movies.
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Aurora Knight
Member Avatar
Swabbie
I honestly think that Beckett is going to die before this triology is over (this is not a spoiler - I simply think it's very likely), and perhaps he should.

That said, I thought Beckett was a great character and quite sexy in his own right. Alia - I really like your idea about Beckett being like Elizabeth, only "honest" about it. Beckett is bad, but he's *not* conflicted about it. He's just cool confidence. And we like that in a villan. B)
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Admin
Member Avatar
unused account - do not PM
*takes Alia's temperature, finds it very low*
Just as I suspected... You're suffering from ice cream transference. :P

No, you do have good points. Beckett makes sense, and he's... reasonably honest about being dishonest. (Though his honesty is rather limited; if there's a question he doesn't want to give an honest reply to, he simply doesn't reply (the mark Jack left on him being a prime example, but not the only one).) But most of his 'virtues' he can afford because he's practically all-powerful. Why hide your dubious practices if no one can touch you?
Beckett creeps me out because he is that powerful and he has no scruples. He can do whatever he wants to whoever he wants. And that's scary. Also, it makes me not want to sympathise with him because he doesn't need it. That was different with Norrie. I won't deny that I've never truly loved Norrie, and I'm sure I've made fun of him frequently - but I can respect him, and feel sorry for him, and appreciate him. With Beckett, I can only try to control the urge to get as far away from him as I can. :P It doesn't make him a bad villain at all, but it does make him an easy target (like Gillette :innocent: ); he has no redeeming features, so it's all right to hate him. With Norrie and Barbs, that was different.
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Eyemcool76
Member Avatar
Smuggler
Well about honesty. He didnt exactly tell anyone about it except will and elizabeth. And hiding the truth is also another form of dishonesty.

But all villains have ambition, otherwise they wouldn't be villians. They'd be bad people who sit around and do nothing.

And cunning. Believe me every villian must be cunning or he's just a big thug that only ever gets in fights with the protagonist.
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Alia Atreides
Member Avatar
Journeyman Craftswoman
Quote:
 
*takes Alia's temperature, finds it very low*
Just as I suspected... You're suffering from ice cream transference.

Hahaha...it actually took me a bit to get that one. :rolleyes: I was like, WTF...ice-cream? Ooooh my ice-cream Norrie...duh...

Quote:
 
but it does make him an easy target (like Gillette)

Choose life. :P I might just have to start an "In Defense of Gillette" thread...

Quote:
 
Why hide your dubious practices if no one can touch you?

At the risk of bringing modern politics and such in...why don't we ask some of our leaders that?

Therea are always reasons to hide such things though. Anything that is secret and known by you is something you can use to your advantage. I think Beckett's close to straddling the line of giving out too much information--to the point where it could become harmful to him. It all depends on how smart the other characters are.

Quote:
 
Well about honesty. He didnt exactly tell anyone about it except will and elizabeth. And hiding the truth is also another form of dishonesty.

No he didn't. It's not necessary for him to go out and tell things though--so I'm not exactly sure he is hiding the truth--no one really seemed to tell him or ask him to elaborate on what exactly the mark was that was left on him...a hickey maybe?

Actually, ignore the last portion of that line there, I'm overdosing on sugar (or ice-cream :P ), and my "sense of humor" needs work.

Quote:
 
Believe me every villian must be cunning or he's just a big thug that only ever gets in fights with the protagonist.

Oh, all villains should...but there are huge numbers of them, who despite being evil geniouses are still incredibly stupid. Hence that list that still goes around about what people would do if they were going to be an evil dictator and take over the world. Villains are only cunning when it is convenient to the plot it seems.


But see this is one thing I was concerned about--was my attraction to Beckett (that and the fact that I happen to play an original character who is very similar), and the fact that he was just a guy (I tend to harshly judge female characters in movies, I'll admit it) coloring my views of him?

Like I said before, I'll willingly admit this is not a guy I'd like to know in real life. Then again, I'm not sure I'd actually like to know half of these characters, I'd like to "know" some of them...I think it might be neat to match wits with others...and still others remind me of people I know in real life whom I can not stand *cough*Elizabeth Swann*cough*.

I've brought this off topic, someone rescue it and bring it back to Beckett!
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
JackMallory
Member Avatar
Swabbie
DutchS
Jul 29 2006, 04:26 AM
(Though his honesty is rather limited; if there's a question he doesn't want to give an honest reply to, he simply doesn't reply (the mark Jack left on him being a prime example, but not the only one).) But most of his 'virtues' he can afford because he's practically all-powerful. Why hide your dubious practices if no one can touch you?

Yes, if you notice he never did answer the question of "What are the charges?" in the first scene. Gov. Swann answers by reading the warrant aloud.

Something I thought interesting about Beckett was the scene with Will when Will wonders if he's to take the compass from Jack by force, and Beckett says that Will is to bargain for it. Just the look of almost child-like glee at the thought of bargaining. Obviously that is what Beckett does best. First of all, Tom Hollander is SHORT, so maybe Beckett has a touch of "short man's syndrome." :lol: He has a chip on his shoulder against the stronger, more manly types like Jack and Will.

I also thought it was cool how...well...cool he was when Liz pulled the gun on him. So many smarmy type villains in the movies are reduced to cowards when actually confronted with a weapon at their faces, but Beckett is no coward. It was Mercer who murdered the merchant captain but I could see Beckett having the same coldness. The difference is that Beckett would literally not want to get his hands dirty. And Beckett interestingly read Liz better than Liz could read herself when he intimates that she's actually going to save Jack instead of Will and that fate intervened with her wedding. That shows us Beckett really knows his quarry. He is a smart man.
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
« Previous Topic · Old Threads · Next Topic »
Locked Topic



Layouts designed for compatibility with Mozilla Firefox.