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Virginia Tech and Gun Laws; Someone had to do it
Topic Started: Apr 18 2007, 03:35 PM (3,156 Views)
ThePlague
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A right does not mean someone is obliged to fill it. Thus, while access to to air, food, and education should not be infringed, neither is anyone else obliged to fill it for another. That's why it's ok not to distribute arms to newborns. It's similar to free speech in that regard: everyone has freedom of speech, but that doesn't mean the government is obliged to distribute printing presses.

The best one can hope for in any government is for it NOT to infringe on human rights, such as the ability to defend oneself, or feed oneself, etc.
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lori
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that chick, you know
Lori
The problem with stricter gun control as a solution to mindless, tragic mass murder is that it's a lot like giving someone with AIDS a shot of penicillin. It's an extremely simple solution to a complex problem.

This man had serious problems. How hard would it have been to fashion some homemade bombs to toss into classrooms, especially now with recipes a mouse click away? There were probably a million steps along the way, that instructors and peers and counselors and police should have taken to prevent this from happening. He was crazy, and he slipped through more cracks than just gun laws.

This man did not kill people because it was easy to get guns. He may have killed 33 people instead of 20, maybe. Or he may have instead set up a Kansas City type slaughter. A well-planted bomb, a day care. His method may have been influenced by gun laws. His actions, murdering a lot of innocent people, had more to do with his psychopathology, the warning signs that weren't noticed, the complaints that weren't followed through on.

I'm not arguing against gun control. But, please, God, I hope that this doesn't get demeaned into soap boxes for interest groups. Let's not scurry around like mad trying to find the one reason this happened. It's not one reason. There's no simple solution.
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CheapShades
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Twat Valid
staci
Apr 18 2007, 08:11 PM
Summer's coming. We have the right to bare arms, bare legs, bare backs, and even bare tummies.

Up here in Canada, we also have the right to bare boobies. :boobs:
In public.
"Touch Her Soft Lips and Part" -- Henry V, Shakespeare
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Lea
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Clearly this guy was sick. Clearly there were red flags popping up all over the place. He was thrown out of his writing class because both his professor and his fellow classmates where disturbed by his writings. He was put into a mental hospital after stalking young women.. .. and the list goes on and on.


In this instance whether there are laws or not against gun control, it may have happened anyway.. not because of the gun laws but because those that saw all those red flags, very few did anything about it.Those that were told did less still.


The same of course could be said for Martin Bryant. Mentally ill people who have access to fire arms. the key words being "have access to".

It could be argued that did America not have the right to bear arms that this tragedy could have been avoided. After all guns are readily available, crimes of passion are often done spur of the moment and can result in ugly consequences. A make shift bomb on the other hand requires at least a small amount of time to make and time enough to think through your actions.. at least it removes the "heat of the moment" from the equation.

As I said... to the rest of the world, particularly those of us who live in countries that DO have gun control and do NOT have the kinds of rampage killings that go on in the U.S. it makes no sense that there is nothing being done about gun control, that it seems to be, at least to an outsider, ignored.

The odd thing about Americans (and I really do love you all dearly) is that you're so unwilling to let go of things.. especially those things that are cited as "American Rights!/The American way".. even if they are proving to be really bad for you.

How many more mass killings will it take?


1.. 10.. 100.. 1000? before you see what the rest of us see?




Then again, I suppose it comes under the heading of : "only in America........".
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RevWolf
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MacGyver of Sex
Only in America? and a few paragraphs back you admitted our own country produced the king of em all, albino fruitcake Bryant. Gun rampages by the mentally ill are not confined to the US and Australia.
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Evil_Henry
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In Vino Veritas
Everyone should wear body armour to increase sales of armour piercing rounds.

It's the only way.
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Lea
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RevWolf
Apr 19 2007, 08:49 AM
Only in America?  and a few paragraphs back you admitted our own country produced the king of em all, albino fruitcake Bryant. Gun rampages by the mentally ill are not confined to the US and Australia.

Australia did something about it.


America has not.




Australia had one.

America has had.. and will continue to have.. many.



You were saying Rev?



As i said.. "Only in America" would such a blatant problem go unchecked.
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ConfusedMonkey
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Satan Valid
RevWolf
Apr 19 2007, 09:49 AM
Only in America?  and a few paragraphs back you admitted our own country produced the king of em all, albino fruitcake Bryant. Gun rampages by the mentally ill are not confined to the US and Australia.

He was probably a decendent of one of the British prisoners we sent over there many years ago.

Just like many Americans are from European descent. It's in the blood.. :dalek:
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RevWolf
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yes monkey, and fucking proud of it too.

I already showed Lea what australia did about it- handed the guns to criminals. Funnily enough, we still get people shot dead.
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RevWolf
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MacGyver of Sex
btw are you SURE we've only had ONE?
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Evil_Henry
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In Vino Veritas
The population cannot be trusted with instant kill weapons. They can barely be trusted with pointy sticks.

To restrict firearms in America you'd need a radical change in ideology - and I really don't see that happening. This is a country that allows (in some states) the sale of fully automatic weapons, which is completely unwarranted. You may as well have grenades, mortars and a tank in your driveway.
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ConfusedMonkey
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OK - let Americans bear arms, but only allow massive civil war type artillery.

Imagine getting that into a school concealed.

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Lea
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RevWolf
Apr 19 2007, 10:44 AM
yes monkey, and fucking proud of it too.

I already showed Lea what australia did about it- handed the guns to criminals. Funnily enough, we still get people shot dead.

Show me the proof Rev.

As it stands, as it has been shown.. those guns were destroyed.



When you're ready to do more than just type about it...
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Xx_SwordWords_xX
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Satan Valid
The problem isn't guns (after all Canada has more guns per capita than the USA), the problem is the culture.

with this...... being shown around the world

....it's no wonder. Why is NBC glorifying the man? Publishing the pictures the shooter sent (intended to have published)...is that not glorifying the situation?

Canada has more guns per capita with a much lower per capita gun violence stat.... why? Is it that there is more "space" per person (don't laugh I've actually heard of this theory)? Is it because our culture views guns as weapons for hunting or sport, rather than an accessory to keep on your person?

I'm rambling... I'll stop... but these are all interesting questions which no one seems to be able to answer.

"Bowling for Columbine" doesn't give many answers, but does offer the discussion of "why" and at least gets us asking questions.
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Lea
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at the most basic of levels it comes down to idelogies.

Australians see guns as something that is necessary to farming - shooting threats.. killing beasts that are injured.. it's a natural way of life.

Canadians see it as a hunting tool. Synie talks about it all the time in the chatroom.. about hunting deer..


The English see it as a hunting tool.. rabits.. foxes.. birds.. you name it.


Americans.. it's a weapon.. a method of killing another human being.


Ideologies matter here.. ask an Aussie.. they'll tell you it's necessary to a farm.. ask a Canadian..moose don't fall easy.. ask an English man.. I say sir I think your fox has run us into a ditch...

Ask an American.. it's a weapon.



You're right swords.. smack bang on the canookian monopoly money.


;)
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ConfusedMonkey
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Paul's baiting you over in Tart's group, Lea. Just so's you know. :lol:
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Xx_SwordWords_xX
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(Syncar is American)



Monopoly money :huh:? Pffffft.... :angry: I've been to Australia... I've seen your various size, various coloured, plastic windowed money... WAYYYYYY more Monopoly than ours! :rolleyes:
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Lea
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perhaps he'd like a nice hot cuppa then gov?


scratch that.. I think he needs a good hot cuppa and a bit of a biscuit then
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ConfusedMonkey
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I'm sure everything could be resolved over a pot of tea and some chocolate hobnobs. Mmn... hobnobs.
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Lea
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Oh I think so too.. if only he wasn't holding onto his willy so tight.. it might leave enough room for that bikkie and nice hot cuppa to do some good.


and it would do the poor poppet some good now wouldn't it love?
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