Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Add Reply
Dream World Ubers Master Team; Discussion for making the best uber team ever.
Topic Started: May 20 2012, 01:20 AM (714 Views)
Sheetanshu

I invite all the PokeHeaven Members to advise about the best-of-best DW Ubers team so that we can combine the ideas into one single force of the ubers that will cross across Heavens....
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
-Manaphy--

I like this idea, however it is going to be hard considering every threat imaginable is in this Tier, so it will take quite some time to figure out this team.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
CHAMPION LANCE
Member Avatar
POKéMON LEAGUE CHAMPION
Indeed, but at the same time I think the process will also be an enjoyable experience for all of us.

Although, with that said, I'm not quite sure how we should begin approaching the process of constructing the ultimate DW Ubers team. Though I know very well that a successful DW Ubers team in no way requires the use of an Arceus, I think it wouldn't be unsafe to assume that the best DW Ubers team will likely contain this Pokémon. So, we will start off by discussing the Arceus Forme and moveset this team will contain, perhaps?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
-Manaphy--

Maybe starting with Arceus would be a good place, however usually Arceus is helpful to add in the team later as it can serve many roles to patch things up.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
CHAMPION LANCE
Member Avatar
POKéMON LEAGUE CHAMPION
You have an excellent point there. From my experience in building teams, the Forme and moveset of the Arceus it contains does indeed usually depend on what weaknesses the rest of the team needs to have covered. Thus, I propose approaching the creation of this team from a different angle...

Most Über teams contain either Kyogre or Groudon, and what Pokémon the rest of the team consists of is usually affected immensely simply by the trainer's choice between these two weather summoners, as while some Pokémon benefit from the torrential downpour that Kyogre calls forth, others appreciate the harsh sunlight that Groudon provides instead.

Thus, I believe a fitting first question to ask and discuss about would be whether you believe that this team should contain Kyogre, Groudon, both, or neither, and why. If your answer is neither, it would also be helpful specify whether or not you want an Abomasnow, Hippowdon or Tyranitar in the team, as such Pokémon, being weather summoners, also heavily shape the way in which the rest of the team is built.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Sopan
Member Avatar

Well, regarding weather, I'd be moving between two possible choices: Rain and Sun, that is Kyogre and Groudon. I don't think the other weathers (Hail and Sand) are that useful in DW Ubers. Hail is absolutely useless as it provides no functionality other than giving Blizzard 100% accuracy, restoring the healths of Ice Body Pokémon and increasing the evasion of Snow Cloak Pokémon. Sand can at times be useful due to the presence of Pokémon like Excadrill, Arceus-Rock, Ferrothorn, etc., who perform pretty well in the sand. But I still think we should choose between Sun and Rain as I think these are the most useful weathers in Dream World Ubers.

Rain provides insane power to the its summoner itself, that is, Kyogre, and turns it into a beast. On the other hand, Sunny weather doesn't directly increase the power of its summoner --- Groudon. But well, Pokémon like Ho-Oh and Reshiram become extremely powerful under the sun, and function as two great Physical and Special sweepers. I think this is the basic difference between the two weathers. So, whether we should choose Sunny or Rainy weather depends upon the fact that whether we want to focus the extra power from the weather on a single Pokémon and sweep with it, as in the case of Kyogre, or spread the power to the whole team and strategically sweep, as in the case of sun teams. So I think we should firstly try to decide the basic strategy our team would use in battles. In other words, we need to be certain about the type of team we are going to build : A Hyper-Offense Team, A Balanced Team or a Stall Team. So, shouldn't we discuss that first?
Edited by Sopan, May 20 2012, 05:16 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
CHAMPION LANCE
Member Avatar
POKéMON LEAGUE CHAMPION
Very well.

As much as I like hyper offense, I personally believe that bulky offense is the best team type in DW Ubers, as from my experience, hyper offensive teams are too easily neutralized by the omnipresent Multiscale Lugia with Thunder Wave, as well as fast and bulky Arceus with Will-o-Wisp, such as puregenius's Beelzebub (an Arceus-Ghost with 4 Special Attack, 252 HP and Speed, Timid, and the moves Focus Blast, Judgment, Recover and Will-o-Wisp). Additionally, the best check that most hyper offensive teams seem to have for the dreaded Extreme Killer Arceus is Choice Scarf Terrakion, which is way too easily played around in my opinion, due to how extremely common Chandelure, Arceus-Ghost and both Formes of Giratina are in the tier. Without Choice Scarf Terrakion, hyper offensive teams can do very little to defend against an Arceus-Normal after one Swords Dance, which I'd say is a huge disadvantage considering that is the greatest threat in the entire metagame.

Balanced and stall teams, on the other hand, can already have an aspect of impracticality observed in theory. As -Manaphy-- mentioned before, DW Ubers is a tier containing every imaginable threat in the game, meaning that aiming to be prepared to defend against, let alone stalling out all of such threats rather than outright taking them out like more offensive teams try to do, already puts one at a disadvantage, since every team can only possibly contain six Pokémon and twenty four moves in total after all. Veteran In Love, a famous GSC OU battler once said that "The best offense is a good defense," and he was talking about the GSC OU metagame, an extremely stall-oriented environment. In the harsh DW Ubers environment, in which the offensive Pokémon that one needs to be prepared to counter are both more powerful and more numerous, it only makes sense that this statement would apply even more here.

Of course, I'm not saying that all teams whose strategy lie in the extreme ends of the offensive and defensive spectrum are unreliable, as there can always be exceptions. For example, Donkey's stall team is obviously an excellent team judging by the fact that he made it to #1 on the DW Ubers ladder with it, while the same can be said for my Extreme BattleMasters team despite its nature as a hyper offensive team, since it did peak at #2 on the ladder with 1642 points after all. But it is undeniable that Arceus (both offensive and defensive variants), Multiscale Lugia and a myriad of extremely powerful threats with offensive stats towering up to 150 plague the DW Ubers metagame, making bulky offensive teams the best in this tier in my opinion, as such teams seem to be able to deal with all of the aforementioned Pokémon most effectively overall.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
-Manaphy--

Bulky offensive teams are the best for this specifically IMO. However, I would like to advise against as standard Groudon/Ho-Oh team, as by now it's been well done before and we know how it works. Also, don't act like Kyogre is the only Rain Abuser; Several Pokemon need it for Thunder and others such as Palkia and Manaphy enjoy it greatly, and additionally unlike Sun teams Steel Types become much more effective under Rain.

What I do suggest is that we keep the threats I'm about to list in mind while we create this team; both to have a check to them and possibly use them to base our team around. These are the biggest threats in the metagame, based from my experience, and every good Bulky Offensive team should have a check for them:

Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image

How can we check these threats? How can we possibly use them effectively? How can we use them to surprise people? What support do they need? These are things we'll have to agree upon.

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
puregenius

i dont think we should be so hasty in ruling out sand

its rarity does not detract form its usefulness
sand is an extremely anti-metagame play style because it damages almost all the pokemon commonly found in ubers while ur team should remain relatively untouched
diversity in weather starters is one of the key advantages of using sand
rain and sun MUST resort to kyogre or groudon respectively or have a semi useless member in their team
ttar and hippo are both perfectly viable
physically defensive hippo (the only set u should be using) is a complete stop to groudon and can proceed to wear it down toxic or set up rocks
hippo also has reliable recovery which ALL other weather starters lack
while ttar does not fair well against any weather starter, it does an excellent job in checking the sweepers of sun teams (bar blaziken)
ttar can also weaken kyogres locked into ice beam or thunder with a STABed pursuit, provided the advantage in weather wars
excadril is one of the biggest reasons to play sand
its typing leaves it immune to both toxic and thunder wave as well as providing a coveted dragon resist
in sand, its speed is ridiculous and basically ensures that u will outspeed ur opponent
while some speedy pokemon may be stopped by ek arceus, excadril's steel typing also provides a normal resist
some teams may stuggle to find a place for a spinner, but excadril can also play this role while filling various other roles such as revenger and sweeper
rock pokemon also garner a +1 spdef boost, which is enough to make something like terrakion seem bulky while taking neutral hits, and things like rockeus to become an almost unbreakable special wall
the only commonly used rock type seen on non sand teams is terrakion
this basically means most of the time, only u will be abusing this buff
while garchomp may not seem as threatening in a tier where base 150 in an atk stat is common, his stats are perfectly distributed
sand veil is an excellent ability and can potentially salvage lost games
garchomp can also boost his atk with swords dance
which brings about the point, most sand abusers hit off the weaker physical side of most ubers
sand also helps defensively
all entry hazard, toxic, leech seed, etc damage seems so much worse when sandstorm is added into the mix
sand instantly kills shedninja
this point may not seem significant, but when building the perfect team, every single thing counts
it's a threat that some teams may struggle with, but sand teams can effortlessly beat

i think ive made my point no?

(im not saying we should use sand im just saying we should not ignore it and listing advantages may provide a more well informed decision)
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
CHAMPION LANCE
Member Avatar
POKéMON LEAGUE CHAMPION
Yeah. I've faced some pretty devastating sand teams in DW Ubers before, including yours, and Calm Mind Arceus-Rock in the sand is especially powerful. I believe they are perfectly viable in the tier, and indeed, should be taken into consideration as both threats to be dealt with, as well as a potential weather for our team to use in this discussion. I personally find it hard to consider one as the absolute "best-of-best DW Ubers team" though, but I am completely open to discussion, as it is what this thread is for after all.

-Manaphy--
May 21 2012, 01:32 AM
Bulky offensive teams are the best for this specifically IMO. However, I would like to advise against as standard Groudon/Ho-Oh team, as by now it's been well done before and we know how it works. Also, don't act like Kyogre is the only Rain Abuser; Several Pokemon need it for Thunder and others such as Palkia and Manaphy enjoy it greatly, and additionally unlike Sun teams Steel Types become much more effective under Rain.

What I do suggest is that we keep the threats I'm about to list in mind while we create this team; both to have a check to them and possibly use them to base our team around. These are the biggest threats in the metagame, based from my experience, and every good Bulky Offensive team should have a check for them:

Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image

How can we check these threats? How can we possibly use them effectively? How can we use them to surprise people? What support do they need? These are things we'll have to agree upon.



This thread is for creating the "best-of-best DW Ubers team" though. As such, although it is true that teams with Groudon + Ho-Oh have been done to death (although the same could also be said for Kyogre + Ferrothorn, Arceus-Normal + Rayquaza, and numerous other extremely common combinations found across the ladder), if the "best-of-best DW Ubers team" just so happens to contain the Groudon + Ho-Oh combination (and cooincidentally, I actually happen to believe that it does to be honest from my experience, but this is just my opinion), then the team that we are to build shall contain it by all means.

As for checking the four Pokémon you mentioned, that is absolutely important. As threatening as they are though, each of those four Pokémon do have multiple checks, and the ones that should be ideally used is heavily dependent on the way one's team is structured. While we have both agreed that bulky offense is the best team type in DW Ubers, I believe that we should first wait for others to express their opinion on this matter, and also discuss whether the team should contain Kyogre, Groudon, Hippowdon, Tyranitar, none, or multiple of the aforementioned, as I believe that the way in which we will go about checking Kyogre, Arceus-Normal, Mewtwo and Ho-Oh will be heavily dependent on both the team's style as well as the team's weather summoner (or possibly lack thereof).
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
ZetaBoards - Free Forum Hosting
Create your own social network with a free forum.
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Pokémon Discussion · Next Topic »
Add Reply