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Azula Quest; A princess is you?
Topic Started: Feb 7 2013, 10:23 PM (38,732 Views)
Chibi-Reaper
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Likely to what by a wha?
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I suppose that this would be the best place to pick this up from.

Definitely going to have to re-create or gather together all of the previous posts, of course.

Story Alone, right from post numero uno.

Azula.

15 years old.

Fourth month, ninth day, of year 100 ASC

Master Firebender [23/6]
-"Butterfly Wings" Fire-flight [3/???]
-"Rocket Boost" Advanced flame propulsion [1/???]
-"Dragon's Breath" burning exhalation [3/???]
-"Advanced Fire Stream" focused fire spout [2/???]
--"Hunting Dragon" Flame Spout Seeking Missile [1/???]
-"Flame Wall" basically that. [1/???]
-"Pinwheel Shot" distance projectile [1/???]
-"Butterfly Swarm" razor-fire butterflies [1/???]
-"Lava Bending" Fortress Killer [1/X]
-"Inner Fire Reinforcement" Self-buff [2/???]
-"Edge Enhance" Sword-buff Flames [1/???]
-"Voice of Command?" ...not what it says on the tin? [1/1?]
Air Bender [4/?]
-"Cold Sky Fire" Lighting manipulation. [4/???]
--"???" Force Lightning Taser? [1/???]
--"???" Electro-Net. [1/???]
Advanced Etiquette [2/2?]
Spiritualism [3/3?]
Leadership [6/???]
Politics [6/???]
"Agressive Self Defense" [3/???]
-Unpleasant Surprises [2/?]
Strategy [4/???]
Logistics [2/???]
Second Child Arts [1/???]
Somewhat Cultured [4/???]
Basic Trading Knowledge [2/???]

Creepy child.
Praise the Sun.
Fire Good.
... Jealous. So jealous.
Once burned, twice....?
Tea-sipper.
Ruby Butterfly.
Divine Right of Kings?
Cap'n Jin.
Toph Customer, or some other pun.
Old Man of the Mountain: Not Your Buddy.
Lotus Initiate.
Raijin Approves. Fuujin... not so much.
Edited by Chibi-Reaper, Feb 9 2013, 06:48 PM.
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MacroDaemon
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Hymn of Ragnarok
Feb 8 2013, 06:13 PM
MacroDaemon
Feb 8 2013, 06:11 PM
I think she expects us to live forever, to be honest. Something about living for an extremely long time is going to give her a chance to pull something off, I'm sure of it.
The longer she has the body, the greater her feedback loop lasts.

80 years of life is, quite frankly, pants shittingly huge. Navi may very well be back to her pre-Avatar power with this.

Of course, banking on our lifespan may be one motive.
Hmm, this is very much true. With the offered deal, we can't afford to die early, as her only true leash is gone, but the longer we live, the more dangerous she becomes.

We need to get some way to constantly gain power that is similar to hers, only not reliant on her.
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Border42
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Fish out of gap.
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Wasn't it already established that powerful benders can live pants-shittingly long times? If so, she's got a good while to unleash whatever plans she has in place.
Edited by Border42, Feb 8 2013, 06:18 PM.
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Chibi-Reaper
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GoC
Feb 8 2013, 06:16 PM
So what is the actual agreement? Is the descendants using her fires a thing?
Can we include a bargain for information in here somewhere?

I'm thinking: A. She expects us to become immortal. B. She knows Zuko escapes (time shenanigans).
In the case of B, she might well know that Zuko escapes because she saw her power going to him, and so she knows that you made some kind of deal regarding it.
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Archanist
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I don't like that deal... I really don't like it...

Chibi, are we sure that if we don't help Zuko he will die? Because, I think we can trust him to take care of himself.

...

Still, even if he were to die, I'll say No.

[x]No, refuse.
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Hymn of Ragnarok
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Chibi-Reaper
Feb 8 2013, 06:11 PM
Not quite. It's A- eat navi or B- she infuses what energy she can.

In B, whether the excess goes to Zuko, or she throws it uselessly out in the rain for some other spirit to stumble upon and add to its power, she's still throwing out excess which she is not easily going to get back.

She's not pleased about that either way. But giving it to Zuko gives her a bargaining position for something she really wants. Just making her throw the power out to where any old rain spirit shmuck can pick it up and appropriate it? She's going to be much, much less happy about that. It's not really in the cards, you might say. Giving up power that can't easily be returned for a reason is acceptable. She's not just going to throw it down the hill to where she can't get it back and where the sacrifice does her no extra good.

Not a good metaphor, but it's something like, from her perspective, sending power to Zuko as cutting your leg off to get out from beneath a fallen tree before you starve to death or something comes along and sees an easy meal, versus throwing it away as cutting it off because, hell, you have a hacksaw in the garage, why not?
Thank you for correcting my misconception.

Hmm....honestly, I would bet that by the end of this timeframe she might be powerful to manifest without a body anymore. Which is crazy mad power.

I have to think about this. The guarantee of Zuko's survival as opposed to be a superior chance is a much different thing to offer, but Navi is going to be getting much more than she gives. And survives.
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Pipeman
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NSMS
Feb 8 2013, 06:17 PM
Just noticed- nowhere in the agreement does it say that we have to have a third child. Just that if we do have one, it would be her. Could that be a possible way around this?
Trying to cheat a spirit out of a deal is bad.

It's even worse when that spirit already lives in our body.


I also just thought of something.

[x] "You shall bend slightly worse than our heir, unless we personally allow you to go all out."

Should both keep the feedback in check and prevent a repetition of the nigh civil-war.
Edited by Pipeman, Feb 8 2013, 06:24 PM.
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Bastur2
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edited

liked this on the post above
[x] You shall bend slightly worse than our heir, unless we personally allow her to go all out.
and I will trow
[x] you will be loyal to the fire nation
[x] Go for it.
Edited by Bastur2, Feb 8 2013, 06:25 PM.
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Aranfan
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[x] Accept


For the surety of Zuko's survival, and thus the preventing of the Civil War, this is worth it.
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NSMS
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Here's something to add to the deal if we do take it: whenever we request it, from this moment on she will act to tutor us in fire, heat and lavabending to the best of her ability and share with us any knowledge we desire on those subjects.
Edited by NSMS, Feb 8 2013, 06:25 PM.
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Redon
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[x] Decline. Go with option 1.
Edited by Redon, Feb 8 2013, 06:25 PM.
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Hymn of Ragnarok
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Chibi-Reaper
Feb 8 2013, 06:18 PM
GoC
Feb 8 2013, 06:16 PM
So what is the actual agreement? Is the descendants using her fires a thing?
Can we include a bargain for information in here somewhere?

I'm thinking: A. She expects us to become immortal. B. She knows Zuko escapes (time shenanigans).
In the case of B, she might well know that Zuko escapes because she saw her power going to him, and so she knows that you made some kind of deal regarding it.
I had wondered about that, actually. She's positive he gets out of his current peril, but not beyond. Only that he'll get to somewhere where Agni can reach a little further.

...

If time-shenanigans are true, and Navi really HAS to close this deal....then telling her we'd rather do A, eat her, might put enough pressure on her that she'll spill her guts.
Edited by Hymn of Ragnarok, Feb 8 2013, 06:25 PM.
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Felius
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Add "You'll not deliberately misinterpret any commands and instructions I give. You will never try to harm me, or arrange that I am harmed. After I die you will still follow the instructions given. You will not use your human shell to make any form of spiritual deal with anyone. You will generally act in good faith. If so you accept, you have a deal." or something of the genre. Just closing a few loopholes. I'm half tempted to say "You will not try to exploit any loopholes that might exist." but that's ever broader than "act in good faith." :P
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serapheus
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Contract?~
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[X] Option 1

No...Just no.
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NSMS
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...I honestly can't make up my mind on this. I think I'll sit this decision out.
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Guile
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Feb 8 2013, 06:19 PM
I don't like that deal... I really don't like it...

Chibi, are we sure that if we don't help Zuko he will die? Because, I think we can trust him to take care of himself.

...

Still, even if he were to die, I'll say No.

[x]No, refuse.
Sure, he's only trapped down a lightless hole. In the spirit realm. Unable to bend. Surrounded by monsters. Fighting a giant monster.

But he has a sword! He'll probably be fine.
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Khiruki
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Take it easy!
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[X] Yes.

I like Navi too much to say no. At worst, she'll be the Caligula of the family. I just find that more hilarious than horrible.
Edited by Khiruki, Feb 8 2013, 06:31 PM.
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Pipeman
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Do spirits actually exploit loopholes in the classical sense?

IIRC Chibi did say somewhere the fact, that the Avatar betrayed her, came totally out of the left field for Navi.

At the same time however we had the canibal spirit clearly trying to trick us into eating.

Could we have a GM ruling on this?
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Redon
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Guile
Feb 8 2013, 06:29 PM
Archanist
Feb 8 2013, 06:19 PM
I don't like that deal... I really don't like it...

Chibi, are we sure that if we don't help Zuko he will die? Because, I think we can trust him to take care of himself.

...

Still, even if he were to die, I'll say No.

[x]No, refuse.
Sure, he's only trapped down a lightless hole. In the spirit realm. Unable to bend. Surrounded by monsters. Fighting a giant monster.

But he has a sword! He'll probably be fine.
I like how you never once consider the fact that the spirit could be misinterpreting the situation in her favor. Like you know, what spirits have been known to do for ages?
Edited by Redon, Feb 8 2013, 06:33 PM.
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Megaolix
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...Is there any clause to mention that the spirit won't try to kill us once born?
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mc2rpg
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[x] Accept

So long as we don't do something dumb like not warn anyone of what she is then the damage can be mitigated by the rideiculous posse we are building and our other children. We might want to pop out a fourth kid relatively quickly after her birth just so someone is available to follow Navi around all the time and try to keep shit under control.
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Larekko12
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NSMS
Feb 8 2013, 05:58 PM
Larekko12
Feb 8 2013, 05:50 PM
We already have a sweet deal and a rather amiable working relationship. Oh and Zuko's stuck out there you twit without a shred of plot armor and theres little prognosis to say that coming out only having lost an arm is not a best case scenario. And we don't have to fucking outwit he but come to an acceptable and closed agreement with a line of succession planned
If by the 'line of succession planned' bit you mean you're in favour of offering her a body, then bare in mind just how badly that could end up: (1) usual spirit in mortal flesh issues, (2) any kind of deal intended to restrict her behavior would inevitably have exploitable loopholes, (3) fire sages will try to burninate us, (4) PR problems from having Navi as a daughter (whether or not her true nature is publicly known), (5) reactions of Zuko, Iroh, etc.

If you aren't in favour, then I apologise, but it was unclear from your post.
Well first of all. Obedience. Human child. Second child assasing for shadow work indulgence and get her killy on? Sounds sweet very sweet.

Also. Hymn I fucking told you she'd lol no that bulshit.

[x]Accept. Or push it to third child.

Third I meant a line of succession for who's holding her leash. Like you but if you die Iroh. But if hes dead zukes and if him ty and if her mai and if her toph and if her so and and so forth.

Megaolix
Feb 8 2013, 06:35 PM
...Is there any clause to mention that the spirit won't try to kill us once born?
Yes. Obedience and acting like a human. We say no killing mommy.
Edited by Larekko12, Feb 8 2013, 06:38 PM.
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MacroDaemon
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[x] Refuse and eat her.

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NSMS
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Megaolix
Feb 8 2013, 06:35 PM
...Is there any clause to mention that the spirit won't try to kill us once born?
The ones where she acts like a normal human, and where she cuts off her life span to 80 years max.
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Hymn of Ragnarok
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Larekko12
Feb 8 2013, 06:37 PM
Also. Hymn I fucking told you she'd lol no that bulshit.
Indeed you did. But not for the reasons she gave, which is that Zuko's survival is ASSURED. Were that explicit from the beginning, well, then it is not a chance for a chance, just like she said.
Edited by Hymn of Ragnarok, Feb 8 2013, 06:41 PM.
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target
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[x]You'll not deliberately misinterpret any commands and instructions I give. You will never try to harm me, or arrange that I am harmed. After I die you will still follow the instructions given. You will not use your human shell to make any form of spiritual deal with anyone. You will generally act in good faith. If so you accept, you have a deal."


[x] accept the deal if navi accepts the above addition to the terms
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Larekko12
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Feb 8 2013, 06:19 PM
I don't like that deal... I really don't like it...

Chibi, are we sure that if we don't help Zuko he will die? Because, I think we can trust him to take care of himself.

...

Still, even if he were to die, I'll say No.

[x]No, refuse.
Idiot. Civil War. This Deal is Good.

Felius
Feb 8 2013, 06:26 PM
Add "You'll not deliberately misinterpret any commands and instructions I give. You will never try to harm me, or arrange that I am harmed. After I die you will still follow the instructions given. You will not use your human shell to make any form of spiritual deal with anyone. You will generally act in good faith. If so you accept, you have a deal." or something of the genre. Just closing a few loopholes. I'm half tempted to say "You will not try to exploit any loopholes that might exist." but that's ever broader than "act in good faith." :P


This Addition makes it fucking better.
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Earth-Destroyer
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[x]You'll not deliberately misinterpret any commands and instructions I give. You will never try to harm me, or arrange that I am harmed. After I die you will still follow the instructions given. You will not use your human shell to make any form of spiritual deal with anyone. You will act in good faith."

[x] And add a clause that say if Azula manages to find a way to extend her life beyond her natural human life span. Yosei get cut off at 150.

Edited by Earth-Destroyer, Feb 8 2013, 07:21 PM.
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Larekko12
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Hymn of Ragnarok
Feb 8 2013, 06:40 PM
Larekko12
Feb 8 2013, 06:37 PM
Also. Hymn I fucking told you she'd lol no that bulshit.
Indeed you did. But not for the reasons she gave, which is that Zuko's survival is ASSURED. Were that explicit from the beginning, well, then it is not a chance for a chance, just like she said.
Her power is a Surety that will surely help Zuko. I've been saying that the whole fucking time. And even now It's a surety that will get him out the darkest part to where agni may help more.
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Hymn of Ragnarok
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Larekko12
Feb 8 2013, 06:43 PM
Hymn of Ragnarok
Feb 8 2013, 06:40 PM
Larekko12
Feb 8 2013, 06:37 PM
Also. Hymn I fucking told you she'd lol no that bulshit.
Indeed you did. But not for the reasons she gave, which is that Zuko's survival is ASSURED. Were that explicit from the beginning, well, then it is not a chance for a chance, just like she said.
Her power is a Surety that will surely help Zuko. I've been saying that the whole fucking time. And even now It's a surety that will get him out the darkest part to where agni may help more.
That it helps him? Obviously. To say otherwise would be sheer stupidity. But his survival was not assured, not out of of the pit. Not until now.
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Bastur2
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Feb 8 2013, 06:43 PM
[x]You'll not deliberately misinterpret any commands and instructions I give. You will never try to harm me, or arrange that I am harmed. After I die you will still follow the instructions given. You will not use your human shell to make any form of spiritual deal with anyone. You will generally act in good faith."

[x] And add a clause that say if Azula manages to find a way to extend her life beyond her natural human life span. Yosei get cut off at 150.
[x] also add a clause to make it loyal to the fire nation and our family.
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Aranfan
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more clauses just gives Navi more wiggle room.
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Pipeman
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So... Are we ever going to tell Zuko about this?
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EnderofWorlds
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Snow Fairy and Winter Saint
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[x] Accept
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Hymn of Ragnarok
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Quote:
 
"A body for a life is what I offer." The fairy corrects. "Spirits of shadow and night and fear are... most vulnerable to heat and flame and fury. My power will ensure that your beloved one escapes the darkest depths and returns to where the light of Agni may shine a little brighter, and guide his path to escape. Chance enters not into matters. Upon that gift, the survival of thy loved one to escape from his current peril is guaranteed, may my fires gutter out and die if I say falsely."


This....bothers me.

The spirits are vulnerable. Reasonable enough. Zuko cannot lose.

Now I'm suspicious.

Zuko could be attacked from behind. Mere light doesn't bother these guys, Agni's rays are shining down and they don't care. Zuko could get lost, and burn all of the power before he finds the exit. Hell, a sufficiently sneaky creature could attack him from behind.

So either Navi has such intimate knowledge of that area and its denizens that she's positive Zuko cannot lose, or she is abusing temporal shenanigans here.

It may be verging into paranoia, but Navi does not strike me as the type to be quite that knowledgable. I suppose she may call it close enough, but she bet her existence here. All the future power doesn't matter if Zuko dies here.

Like I said. Suspicious.
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Larekko12
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Hymn of Ragnarok
Feb 8 2013, 06:46 PM
Larekko12
Feb 8 2013, 06:43 PM
Hymn of Ragnarok
Feb 8 2013, 06:40 PM
Larekko12
Feb 8 2013, 06:37 PM
Also. Hymn I fucking told you she'd lol no that bulshit.
Indeed you did. But not for the reasons she gave, which is that Zuko's survival is ASSURED. Were that explicit from the beginning, well, then it is not a chance for a chance, just like she said.
Her power is a Surety that will surely help Zuko. I've been saying that the whole fucking time. And even now It's a surety that will get him out the darkest part to where agni may help more.
That it helps him? Obviously. To say otherwise would be sheer stupidity. But his survival was not assured, not out of of the pit. Not until now.
You do know you're giving every appearance of splitting hairs to try to save face right?

And not in the acceptable way with say Ullyssian, The Mountain and the beast upon it, and Empty Moon.
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Liam-don
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While I don't overly care if Zuko lives, his death would create such a shitstorm in the real world it would derail all our plans. Ozai would go nuts, half the country would go up in flame believing we assassinated him for the throne right with the comet right on the horizon. Our hold on the EK would slip as civil would tear the FN apart. And who know if the spirit won't sow the seed of doubts in our friends if Zuko doesn't come out alive.

Essentially, Zuko dying right now is a worst thing that could happen. For that matter, it would probably profit all the spirits that want to restore the balance, so they may actually encourage it. I wouldn't bet our entire future on them.

[x]Accept the Fairy's offer. Third or Seventh child makes no difference to me. But let's try for airbenders.


Edited by Liam-don, Feb 8 2013, 06:55 PM.
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Garlak
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... Do we add a "Zuko and I have to both make it out, safe and sound" clause to the deal then?
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Jiven
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[X] Go for it
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Larekko12
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Hymn of Ragnarok
Feb 8 2013, 06:54 PM
Quote:
 
"A body for a life is what I offer." The fairy corrects. "Spirits of shadow and night and fear are... most vulnerable to heat and flame and fury. My power will ensure that your beloved one escapes the darkest depths and returns to where the light of Agni may shine a little brighter, and guide his path to escape. Chance enters not into matters. Upon that gift, the survival of thy loved one to escape from his current peril is guaranteed, may my fires gutter out and die if I say falsely."


This....bothers me.

The spirits are vulnerable. Reasonable enough. Zuko cannot lose.

Now I'm suspicious.

Zuko could be attacked from behind. Mere light doesn't bother these guys, Agni's rays are shining down and they don't care. Zuko could get lost, and burn all of the power before he finds the exit. Hell, a sufficiently sneaky creature could attack him from behind.

So either Navi has such intimate knowledge of that area and its denizens that she's positive Zuko cannot lose, or she is abusing temporal shenanigans here.

It may be verging into paranoia, but Navi does not strike me as the type to be quite that knowledgable. I suppose she may call it close enough, but she bet her existence here. All the future power doesn't matter if Zuko dies here.

Like I said. Suspicious.
Agni's light is a bare Sunbeam that barely gives him enough light to see in the deepest darkest parts of the pits.

Agni's light where it can really shine? Where he can see them all coming for ages? That leads him out of the dark zone to a place that grok's fire children? That is what she is saying.
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Hymn of Ragnarok
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Waaaaaaaaaaait a minute.

Zuko's survival IS guaranteed upon the gift of her power, and if this were not true then she'd die on the spot.

So there is no existing outcome in which Zuko will die if he receives her power.

Navi is definitely abusing temporal shenanigans here. Probably at least to deliver the power to Zuko at an opportune moment, entirely possibly to look ahead. I find it hard to believe that Zuko, in all the myriad outcomes, cannot lose after the power. S'a big universe.
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Larekko12
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Hymn of Ragnarok
Feb 8 2013, 06:57 PM
Waaaaaaaaaaait a minute.

Zuko's survival IS guaranteed upon the gift of her power, and if this were not true then she'd die on the spot.

So there is no existing outcome in which Zuko will die if he receives her power.

Navi is definitely abusing temporal shenanigans here. Probably at least to deliver the power to Zuko at an opportune moment, entirely possibly to look ahead. I find it hard to believe that Zuko, in all the myriad outcomes, cannot lose after the power. S'a big universe.
Yes and that changes things how?
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NSMS
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Honestly? I'm tempted to vote to say 'No. I trust Zuko.', eat Navi, and then fly for the mountaintop.
Edited by NSMS, Feb 8 2013, 07:00 PM.
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Aranfan
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Hymn of Ragnarok
Feb 8 2013, 06:57 PM
Waaaaaaaaaaait a minute.

Zuko's survival IS guaranteed upon the gift of her power, and if this were not true then she'd die on the spot.

So there is no existing outcome in which Zuko will die if he receives her power.

Navi is definitely abusing temporal shenanigans here. Probably at least to deliver the power to Zuko at an opportune moment, entirely possibly to look ahead. I find it hard to believe that Zuko, in all the myriad outcomes, cannot lose after the power. S'a big universe.
We have no idea what kind of time-shenanigan model is being used. I can think of two slightly different models where Navi can see the conditional, but Zuko's survival remains conditional on the deal being made and the power being given. Assuming one of those models holds, or one like them, Navi's bargaining position is improved not harmed.
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Liam-don
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Garlak
Feb 8 2013, 06:56 PM
... Do we add a "Zuko and I have to both make it out, safe and sound" clause to the deal then?
Not any point to it. She can't survive the mountain without us and won't get a body if we don't get out. She's already garanteeing Zuko's survival as best as she can too. Clause is completely redundant.
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Larekko12
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NSMS
Feb 8 2013, 07:00 PM
Honestly? I'm tempted to vote to say 'No. I trust Zuko.', eat Navi, and then fly for the mountaintop.
Blinks slowly. We trust Zuko to never willingly leave us. I do not however think we trust him to pull off something the greatest swordsmaster in the history of forever has long odds of doing while not even using his favored weapon.
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Redon
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Actually, all she's saying is he'll get out of the pit, nothing about what happens once he makes it that far... He'll still be in the spirit world. Where maybe he'll find something that dislikes Navi enough to end him... Just throwing out the possibilities.
Edited by Redon, Feb 8 2013, 07:09 PM.
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Larekko12
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Redon
Feb 8 2013, 07:07 PM
Actually, all she's saying is he'll get out of the pit, nothing about what happens once he makes it that far... He'll still be in the spirit world.
He'll get out of the pit to where agni's trying to lead him.
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HioH
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aghh, so much.
[x] accept

worst case, we either dont have a second child or have it in secret then kill it. But probably by the time she is to be born we will be powerful enough to take care of any issuses that might arise
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Jugular Signal
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[x] accept
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Aranfan
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HioH
Feb 8 2013, 07:10 PM


worst case, we either dont have a second child or have it in secret then kill it. But probably by the time she is to be born we will be powerful enough to take care of any issuses that might arise
Navi will be third child, not second.
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