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| Azula Quest; A princess is you? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Feb 7 2013, 10:23 PM (38,731 Views) | |
| Chibi-Reaper | Feb 7 2013, 10:23 PM Post #1 |
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Likely to what by a wha?
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Posted Image I suppose that this would be the best place to pick this up from. Definitely going to have to re-create or gather together all of the previous posts, of course. Story Alone, right from post numero uno. Azula. 15 years old. Fourth month, ninth day, of year 100 ASC Master Firebender [23/6] -"Butterfly Wings" Fire-flight [3/???] -"Rocket Boost" Advanced flame propulsion [1/???] -"Dragon's Breath" burning exhalation [3/???] -"Advanced Fire Stream" focused fire spout [2/???] --"Hunting Dragon" Flame Spout Seeking Missile [1/???] -"Flame Wall" basically that. [1/???] -"Pinwheel Shot" distance projectile [1/???] -"Butterfly Swarm" razor-fire butterflies [1/???] -"Lava Bending" Fortress Killer [1/X] -"Inner Fire Reinforcement" Self-buff [2/???] -"Edge Enhance" Sword-buff Flames [1/???] -"Voice of Command?" ...not what it says on the tin? [1/1?] Air Bender [4/?] -"Cold Sky Fire" Lighting manipulation. [4/???] --"???" Force Lightning Taser? [1/???] --"???" Electro-Net. [1/???] Advanced Etiquette [2/2?] Spiritualism [3/3?] Leadership [6/???] Politics [6/???] "Agressive Self Defense" [3/???] -Unpleasant Surprises [2/?] Strategy [4/???] Logistics [2/???] Second Child Arts [1/???] Somewhat Cultured [4/???] Basic Trading Knowledge [2/???] Creepy child. Praise the Sun. Fire Good. ... Jealous. So jealous. Once burned, twice....? Tea-sipper. Ruby Butterfly. Divine Right of Kings? Cap'n Jin. Toph Customer, or some other pun. Old Man of the Mountain: Not Your Buddy. Lotus Initiate. Raijin Approves. Fuujin... not so much. Edited by Chibi-Reaper, Feb 9 2013, 06:48 PM.
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| target | Feb 8 2013, 07:12 PM Post #551 |
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Newbie
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yeh if zuko dies everything goes to shit, hell azula might even have a breakdown. ill back takeing the deal even without more safteys [x]accept the deal i do suggest we add this to the deal though [x]You'll not deliberately misinterpret any commands and instructions I give. You will never try to harm me, or arrange that I am harmed. After I die you will still follow the instructions given. You will not use your human shell to make any form of spiritual deal with anyone. You will generally act in good faith. If so you accept, you have a deal." |
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| Redon | Feb 8 2013, 07:14 PM Post #552 |
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the baka nerbie
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"It is not without its benefits..." the butterfly says. "Do you not fear, little bender of flame, the times when the sun grows dark, and Agni, great Agni, turns his eyes away from the world? Do you not know that great lord Agni, the mighty Sun, does not stretch his hand out to you humans who choose to step into our world? Bind yourself to me, and you must carry me with you, but never will we be separate...." Spirits don't lie, that's not Agni. |
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| Larekko12 | Feb 8 2013, 07:14 PM Post #553 |
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Um you mean we get pregnant than never have sex again. Otherwise we'll have twins. Cause she's making the body wholesale. |
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| Earth-Destroyer | Feb 8 2013, 07:15 PM Post #554 |
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Newbie
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Thought of something. If we do take the deal we should add a stipulation that she does not firebend beyond what a average human firebender. Who has spent an equal amount of time practicing, as she has. This neatly insure that the avatar will be able to kill her if needed. |
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| Larekko12 | Feb 8 2013, 07:16 PM Post #555 |
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That's referencing how you can't bend in the spirt world. |
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| Vorpal | Feb 8 2013, 07:16 PM Post #556 |
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neither a dandy nor a clown
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Whichever comes last? But a prior agreement said:
Uh-oh. Edit: to elaborate, it's not at all clear what that would imply for this agreement... does it mean she won't have the child's body any more or does it mean she will have it by default but won't have to follow any restrictions she gets from us? My paranoia's leaning toward the latter. Edited by Vorpal, Feb 8 2013, 07:20 PM.
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| Redon | Feb 8 2013, 07:17 PM Post #557 |
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the baka nerbie
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You REALLY want to bet that it's a narrow focus like that? I'm not. |
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| NSMS | Feb 8 2013, 07:18 PM Post #558 |
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... [X] Eat her, head for the moutaintop ASAP And with that, I'm off to get some sleep. Edited by NSMS, Feb 8 2013, 07:19 PM.
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| Pipeman | Feb 8 2013, 07:23 PM Post #559 |
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I vote to adress this issue, if it's an issue at all. Off to sleep now. |
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| Liam-don | Feb 8 2013, 07:25 PM Post #560 |
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Neither Azula nor Zuko chose to come in here. Edited by Liam-don, Feb 8 2013, 07:26 PM.
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| HioH | Feb 8 2013, 07:29 PM Post #561 |
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If i understood i correctly that wont be an issue, she will only live for 80 years, and if we dont survive those 80 years we probably did something wrong, and are dead so we dont care. |
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| Vorpal | Feb 8 2013, 07:29 PM Post #562 |
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neither a dandy nor a clown
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It better be, because if Azula dies first, there doesn't seem to be anything to prevent Navi from going "well, she's dead, so I don't have to follow the terms we agreed upon any more." @HioH: Nope. Whichever comes last. Meaning if Azula dies before Yousei II is 80, she gets a get-out-of-all-agreements-free card. Edited by Vorpal, Feb 8 2013, 07:31 PM.
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| GoC | Feb 8 2013, 07:32 PM Post #563 |
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Dr
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[X] Decline the deal as currently stated If there's a popular good clause to add then the deal is good to go. Otherwise I'm thinking eatery is better. My proposed extra clause is the whole knowledge thing, "answer every question I ask truthfully and completely" and that the deal nullification does not apply to this agreement. Edited by GoC, Feb 8 2013, 07:33 PM.
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| Redon | Feb 8 2013, 07:34 PM Post #564 |
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the baka nerbie
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For Azula, that might be true, but for Zuko, who willingly ran into the portal, that is not. Edited by Redon, Feb 8 2013, 07:34 PM.
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| Hymn of Ragnarok | Feb 8 2013, 07:34 PM Post #565 |
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I can admit when I'm wrong, but I can also stand by where I believe I was correct. Where I well and truly was wrong? Big one was that Navi was willing to give only us her power, without a deal. That was one of my underlying assumptions, and I was incorrect. That one is on me. Navi's power? There is a considerable difference between, "My power will give him a better chance at surviving these pits," and, "My power guarantees his survival." One is probability, the other is certainty. It completely changes the dynamics. But she cannot know this without a degree of foresight and time manipulation. If Zuko was lying on the ground dying right now, her gift would get him out? No. Circumstances do not exist where Zuko could die despite the power? I find it improbable. Chibi straight up told us that Navi can control WHEN her power arrives at Zuko. At very LEAST she is using that the hedge her bets of when Zuko succeeds, and quite possibly looking ahead to see that it happens. He also told us that we could extract this knowledge from her, but it'd be like pulling teeth. I feel like tugging out some teeth. [X] "How can you know that his survival is guaranteed? Even now Zuko is fighting, but for there to be no outcome in which he can lose? His strength cannot wane until he can no longer fight and die as we discuss terms? You have not pressed the urgency of his circumstances since we began negotiations. You have complete and utter certainty that he will survive. Or has he already won? Tell me the means by which you vouch for Zuko's survival." Edited by Hymn of Ragnarok, Feb 8 2013, 07:35 PM.
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| Dinya | Feb 8 2013, 07:35 PM Post #566 |
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This still allows her to be the 7th child, whether one is counting only the human ones, or otherwise. Though it seems unlikely that that would happen naturally. Hmm... Let's see... Nah. Assuming no deaths and the most favorable human/dragon birth ratio it's still just 12.6%. It would take some serious meddling to get it done. |
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| MacroDaemon | Feb 8 2013, 07:35 PM Post #567 |
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Well fuck, with that little clause in our original contract, the current deal so many want to accept has a HUGE hole in it. If we die, she wont lose or drop the body, because due to a preexisting deal, all contracts will be void. But the body wont go anywhere and she wont have to give it up, since this deal is about giving her one. Not her controlling it. |
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| Vorpal | Feb 8 2013, 07:36 PM Post #568 |
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neither a dandy nor a clown
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The deal as stated would greatly incentivize Yousei killing Azula because of the prior "all further agreements voided upon Azula's death". Unless that can be bypassed somehow to make any deal made here binding even after Azula's death, it's a real crap-shoot. [x] Insist on "whichever comes first" or no deal at all. |
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| Earth-Destroyer | Feb 8 2013, 07:39 PM Post #569 |
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[x] "No Yosei whichever comes first" "I will not allow a spirt to move about unchained in the mortal world" |
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| target | Feb 8 2013, 07:40 PM Post #570 |
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[x] "No Yosei whichever comes first" "I will not allow a spirt to move about unchained in the mortal world" |
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| Jugular Signal | Feb 8 2013, 07:40 PM Post #571 |
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Changing to this [x] Insist on "whichever comes first" or no deal at all. |
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| Bastur2 | Feb 8 2013, 07:41 PM Post #572 |
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Yes that issue is a worrying one... But, if I was not mistaken, it also had a clause to force her to the spirit world with Azula's death. (I may no wrong tough) Also, I was thinking with myself, and would like to Propose that, before the deal is completed, the butterfly vow that she is dealing in good faith, and she knows that Zuko wouldn't survive without her power... (just to protect us from doing brokering an unnecessary deal) |
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| Aranfan | Feb 8 2013, 07:42 PM Post #573 |
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Change vote: [x] Insist on "whichever comes first". Remind her of the nullification clause in our previous deal. |
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| Felius | Feb 8 2013, 07:45 PM Post #574 |
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Well, technically you could consider that having the body is also a contract and if it is considered complete and null, it follows that Navi needs to leave the body. |
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| Vorpal | Feb 8 2013, 07:47 PM Post #575 |
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neither a dandy nor a clown
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Yeah, that's why I said it wasn't clear. However, if that were the case, then Yousei shouldn't have any problems accepting "whichever comes first" because it would be effectively that anyway in both versions of the agreement. So there wouldn't be any reason for her to insist on "last" as she had. Edited by Vorpal, Feb 8 2013, 07:49 PM.
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| Shouryuu | Feb 8 2013, 07:48 PM Post #576 |
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Wait a minute. If we decide to go off into the rain again, is she forced to come with us regardless of whether a deal is made or not since she is bound to us? Also the deal is unfavorable to us since it only since guarantees Zuko survives this encounter till he reaches a place where Agni can guide his escape. This does not guarantee he survives totally intact at all. It also does not guarantee anything afterwards. Anyway this is my suggestion: [x] Refuse the deal - [x] Ask it to give you power and then use the power to deploy wings and rocket boots to the top of the mountain, overpowering the wings and rocket boots if we have too. - - [x] Finish with Raijin fast then go save Zuko like a big damn hero. |
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| Hymn of Ragnarok | Feb 8 2013, 07:49 PM Post #577 |
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I'm quoting this just to remind people, but there isn't actually a time limit. Also, that we can just push for a contract like the one all firebenders have with Agni, but that's a bit different. This might have its own risks, but I get the serious feeling that Yosei has already sent it, or looked ahead and saw that Zuko has her power right now. Her absolute confidence that Zuko will survive... Either she really, really, REALLY knows that Zuko cannot die, which seems unlikely as these people aren't her types of spirits, or she's cheating. I strongly suspect she is cheating here. If she can see Zuko walking out with her power, then she knows that this deal must come to pass in some form, or that Zuko must receive her power. Maybe we can even force her to send him her power for free this way. Also, while Chibi would have to confirm this, the semantics of Yosei's declaration that Zuko cannot die? Would she gutter out and die upon Zuko's death in the dark, or would she gutter out on the spot if what she spoke was in any way false? Because if it's the latter, then we KNOW she is cheating. |
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| HioH | Feb 8 2013, 07:51 PM Post #578 |
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If we die, we are dead, basic facts. When you are dead you dont really care what happens to the world. still we should try to change it so she isnt free from all contracts if we die first [x] change to : the one that comes first Edited by HioH, Feb 8 2013, 08:10 PM.
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| Hymn of Ragnarok | Feb 8 2013, 07:52 PM Post #579 |
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Not true, if the bit about dead Fire Lords coming back as undead skeletons is the case. As I believe it to be. Our involvement doesn't necessarily end with death, I suspect. We die, we're tossed into the Spirit World I believe. |
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| Redon | Feb 8 2013, 07:53 PM Post #580 |
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the baka nerbie
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That's only if you don't believe in a spirit based society.... Which this world does and has proof of existing. Edited by Redon, Feb 8 2013, 07:53 PM.
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| Vorpal | Feb 8 2013, 07:55 PM Post #581 |
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neither a dandy nor a clown
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Perhaps we should consider dropping any specific time limits at all, as long as Yousei is guaranteed to leave mortal world upon Azula's death. But at under no circumstances should we allow Yousei to remain in the mortal world after Azula's dead. That seems like a compromise that gets Yousei the possibility of living to be an post-octogenarian. Edited by Vorpal, Feb 8 2013, 07:56 PM.
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| Guile | Feb 8 2013, 07:57 PM Post #582 |
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Pretty sure spirits (except for maybe Koh) don't lie. She was incredibly offended by Yangchen lying to her. I'm kinda worried about eating her. We're heavy on the dragon side, and this would change us further into something Other, even after we spit her out. Edited by Guile, Feb 8 2013, 07:57 PM.
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| Liam-don | Feb 8 2013, 07:57 PM Post #583 |
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Gah. Call me when the rule lawyering is done. This is incredibly tedious.
Edited by Liam-don, Feb 8 2013, 08:15 PM.
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| Hymn of Ragnarok | Feb 8 2013, 07:58 PM Post #584 |
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I'm nearly certain Chibi is on the record saying that spirits CAN lie. They usually don't, but they can. What they cannot do is break their words. |
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| Adam Kardamon | Feb 8 2013, 08:06 PM Post #585 |
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You bastards have killed zuko. Stop haggling like a chinese grandmother and [x] ACCEPT! |
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| GLH | Feb 8 2013, 08:07 PM Post #586 |
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[X] Eat her, head for the moutaintop ASAP |
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| serapheus | Feb 8 2013, 08:10 PM Post #587 |
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Contract?~
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Even if we have the 'whichever comes first' clause it still gives her too much of an opportunity to ignore it. If we die before the 80 year line she still gets out of the deal with that clause in it. And I don't know about you guys, but I see Azula either dying deep in the hundreds of years or dying before she turns 50. And I'm pretty sure the latter is more likely. There's also the fact that, with a mortal body of her own, Yosei will become damn near unstoppable by the time even 40 years pass. Look at when she got a body before. While it doesn't say how long she had the body persay, it probably wasn't more than ten years and yet she's shown to have been more powerful that the freaking Avatar in a relatively short time span. In other words, we do not want to give her a body. Ever. |
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| Vorpal | Feb 8 2013, 08:10 PM Post #588 |
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neither a dandy nor a clown
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How many times does the "atemporal hijinks = no time limit" need to be pointed out? |
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| MacroDaemon | Feb 8 2013, 08:11 PM Post #589 |
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Not the right attitude when deciding things that can change the fate of nations. You simply do not rush in such situations. |
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| Vorpal | Feb 8 2013, 08:13 PM Post #590 |
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neither a dandy nor a clown
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Although it was implied that she started out a lot stronger than she is now. As in, she was powerful enough that Amaterasu was her replacement. |
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| Guile | Feb 8 2013, 08:13 PM Post #591 |
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If Yosei has to reverse time to get Zuko the firepower in time, I would imagine she would tack on a few extra little bits for the trouble. Edited by Guile, Feb 8 2013, 08:13 PM.
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| Hymn of Ragnarok | Feb 8 2013, 08:14 PM Post #592 |
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This. Rest assured, if there was a time limit? Yosei would not have failed to mention it again. Instead she gave up after one mention. That's why I want to call her on this hesitance. If she has already looked and she SAW that Zuko has her power, then she must give Zuko her power. No ifs, ands or buts. Or she causes a paradox. I suspect she's looked and she saw Zuko receiving her power and climbing out. So she needs to give him her power, now she just wants something for it. We might be able to get out of this without Yosei getting a body, if we call her bluff. And if it's not a bluff? Well, Chibi already said that Yosei can send the power whenever it is needed. We lose nothing by pressing Yosei on this point. |
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| iamnuff | Feb 8 2013, 08:14 PM Post #593 |
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yeah, if we give her a body, then die before the 80 years are up, all of our deals are void and she gets to do whatever the fuck she wants. so she's going to get her body then keep trying to have us killed. [x] refuse. also, if she says "there is no chance of him dying after i give my power" it sounds suspiciously like "there is no chance of him dying, whether i give him power or not" Zuko has Agni at his back, no deal we can broker could possibly be more powerful than that. just hurry this up so we can get back to doing stuff. [x] eat her, then fly to the top as fast as possible. or just fucking walk. i dont care, so long as we get out of this damn cave and start doing things oh, one more thing. we probably shouldnt sell our fucking children without consulting the father. you-know? so in conclusion. [x] no body [x] om nom nom nom [x] FLY! Edited by iamnuff, Feb 8 2013, 08:18 PM.
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| serapheus | Feb 8 2013, 08:14 PM Post #594 |
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Contract?~
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So~...What you want to let her build up to that level again? Or worse, since she'll have even more time to build up power? |
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| Hymn of Ragnarok | Feb 8 2013, 08:16 PM Post #595 |
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If she has to reverse time, I suspect she won't mention it to us because then we'd have her in a corner. Or just do it for free, because she's go what she wants. If Zuko's already dead, then he's dead. Yosei can't send back her power to save him, she's already observed the outcome. |
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| Vorpal | Feb 8 2013, 08:18 PM Post #596 |
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neither a dandy nor a clown
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Yes. If she's actually bound by these terms and will be forced to leave on those conditions, I don't see a problem with her being growing powerful. There'd be more powerful spirits anyway and she'd be forced not to act anything like her past self. Problem is, our prior agreement provides a gigantic loophole. |
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| Earth-Destroyer | Feb 8 2013, 08:19 PM Post #597 |
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We can and should try to call her bluff. But I suspect as a sprit, she is not fully by bound by liner time.
Edited by Earth-Destroyer, Feb 8 2013, 08:20 PM.
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| HioH | Feb 8 2013, 08:23 PM Post #598 |
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Hymn raises an intresting point, but i am to tired to think it through, will see tommorow what the result of all this is. |
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| GoC | Feb 8 2013, 08:24 PM Post #599 |
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Still, having her actually having to answer our questions? And completely? Useful. |
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| EnderofWorlds | Feb 8 2013, 08:34 PM Post #600 |
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Snow Fairy and Winter Saint
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[x] Insist on "whichever comes first". Remind her of the nullification clause in our previous deal. |
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6:47 PM Jul 10