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Azula Quest; A princess is you?
Topic Started: Feb 7 2013, 10:23 PM (38,738 Views)
Chibi-Reaper
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Likely to what by a wha?
[ * ]
Posted Image

I suppose that this would be the best place to pick this up from.

Definitely going to have to re-create or gather together all of the previous posts, of course.

Story Alone, right from post numero uno.

Azula.

15 years old.

Fourth month, ninth day, of year 100 ASC

Master Firebender [23/6]
-"Butterfly Wings" Fire-flight [3/???]
-"Rocket Boost" Advanced flame propulsion [1/???]
-"Dragon's Breath" burning exhalation [3/???]
-"Advanced Fire Stream" focused fire spout [2/???]
--"Hunting Dragon" Flame Spout Seeking Missile [1/???]
-"Flame Wall" basically that. [1/???]
-"Pinwheel Shot" distance projectile [1/???]
-"Butterfly Swarm" razor-fire butterflies [1/???]
-"Lava Bending" Fortress Killer [1/X]
-"Inner Fire Reinforcement" Self-buff [2/???]
-"Edge Enhance" Sword-buff Flames [1/???]
-"Voice of Command?" ...not what it says on the tin? [1/1?]
Air Bender [4/?]
-"Cold Sky Fire" Lighting manipulation. [4/???]
--"???" Force Lightning Taser? [1/???]
--"???" Electro-Net. [1/???]
Advanced Etiquette [2/2?]
Spiritualism [3/3?]
Leadership [6/???]
Politics [6/???]
"Agressive Self Defense" [3/???]
-Unpleasant Surprises [2/?]
Strategy [4/???]
Logistics [2/???]
Second Child Arts [1/???]
Somewhat Cultured [4/???]
Basic Trading Knowledge [2/???]

Creepy child.
Praise the Sun.
Fire Good.
... Jealous. So jealous.
Once burned, twice....?
Tea-sipper.
Ruby Butterfly.
Divine Right of Kings?
Cap'n Jin.
Toph Customer, or some other pun.
Old Man of the Mountain: Not Your Buddy.
Lotus Initiate.
Raijin Approves. Fuujin... not so much.
Edited by Chibi-Reaper, Feb 9 2013, 06:48 PM.
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Yog
Newbie
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Garlak
Feb 8 2013, 03:29 AM
Counter-offers:

Build her a shrine instead.

Sacrifice/offer something in her name.

Offer to give our children the chance to form a contract similar to the one Azula made for Azulon. They don't have to accept, and the "Offer contract to future child" doesn't get passed on.


Re-negotiating current offer:

Can only form a body after we have a number of healthy, living children of a few years of age. 2 would be good. And the "several years old" part would mean it can't take advantage of triplet or twin thing which could put her in the running for the succession. Also, she HAS to forsake/disavow any shot at inheriting. (Also a number of other restrictions, on behavior, longevity, etc.)



Collected some possible ideas together in a more coherent whole.

I think we go with

1) Shrine first

2) Sacrifice, with restrictions: no humans, no mass animal slaughter, etc.

3) Offer to give our children the chance to form a contract similar to the one Azula made for Azulon. They don't have to accept, and the "Offer contract to future child" doesn't get passed on.

I'm not willing to go higher. Actually, I'm voting to reject the deal, or let parts of her power go to waste rather than accept the higher deal.

thisisinsane
Feb 8 2013, 03:34 AM
[X] You will craft for yourself a DRAGON body- egg and all.
[X] You will forfeit all right to succession, even in the event that all others of my line are extinguished.
[X] You will limit yourself to the strength, power, and vitality you would possess were you a natural dragon while you posses that form, up to and including forfeiting the body if it takes damage that would be fatal to such a dragon
[X] You will cause no unnecessary trauma to myself in the birthing process.
[X] If the pregnancy fails for any reason except my deliberate and malicious termination it shall be considered a natural death and result in forfeiting of the body.
[X] You shall not harm any citizen of the fire nation, any of it's subordinate nations, or any nations that are born from same unless they attack you first.
[X] You will not knowingly goad any so protected into attacking you.
[X] If the presence of your body threatens the existence of a child naturally conceived for any reason, you shall terminate the body yourself without harming the child or myself and our deal shall be considered fulfilled.
[X] Use politics 6 to catch any loopholes I missed.

So I figured I'd try to make a workable deal. Adjust or reject as you all see fit, but I thought we should at least consider it.

This is too good for her. We start by giving her the sh*ttiest counter-proposal. Then we negotiate up.

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Solaris
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eh

[x] Externally absorb her power, send the rest to Zuko when he needs it.
[x] Hoof it to the top.

I'm assuming this is the deal where we don't owe her anything or mutate. Even a small boost in power at the right time would be a godsend.
Edited by Solaris, Feb 8 2013, 03:40 AM.
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Garlak
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... and I'll form the head!
[ * ]
Dragons are immortal -- or at least, ageless.

Meaning if she isn't killed, she'll be able to get endless power. A human, at the least, might die after a century and a half-ish.

Plus, we will have given birth to a goddam dragon.

Very against this.
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Yog
Newbie
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Garlak
Feb 8 2013, 03:39 AM
Dragons are immortal -- or at least, ageless.

Meaning if she isn't killed, she'll be able to get endless power. A human, at the least, might die after a century and a half-ish.

Plus, we will have given birth to a goddam dragon.

Very against this.
Totally agreed with that.

I strongly object to any deal where we cave into her demands for a body.

Very strongly.

Basically, I flat out reject any such deal.
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MacroDaemon
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[X] Eat her.
[X] Continue with all haste.


Yes, there will probably be physical, mental and spiritual mutation, but I simply do not want Yosei to get her hands on a body. Too many problems, no matter what we do. Accidents happen, shit goes wrong, loopholes get missed, etc.
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Pipeman
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thisisinsane
Feb 8 2013, 03:34 AM
[X] You will craft for yourself a DRAGON body- egg and all.
[X] You will forfeit all right to succession, even in the event that all others of my line are extinguished.
[X] You will limit yourself to the strength, power, and vitality you would possess were you a natural dragon while you posses that form, up to and including forfeiting the body if it takes damage that would be fatal to such a dragon
[X] You will cause no unnecessary trauma to myself in the birthing process.
[X] If the pregnancy fails for any reason except my deliberate and malicious termination it shall be considered a natural death and result in forfeiting of the body.
[X] You shall not harm any citizen of the fire nation, any of it's subordinate nations, or any nations that are born from same unless they attack you first.
[X] You will not knowingly goad any so protected into attacking you.
[X] If the presence of your body threatens the existence of a child naturally conceived for any reason, you shall terminate the body yourself without harming the child or myself and our deal shall be considered fulfilled.
[X] Use politics 6 to catch any loopholes I missed.

So I figured I'd try to make a workable deal. Adjust or reject as you all see fit, but I thought we should at least consider it.
This sounds good. Maybe exchange some of the clauses for a simple 'You will follow my commands'.

[x] Support

Now we don't even have to look for a dragon to ride.
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EnderofWorlds
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Snow Fairy and Winter Saint
[ * ]
[X] You will craft for yourself a DRAGON body- egg and all.
[X] You will forfeit all right to succession, even in the event that all others of my line are extinguished.
[X] You will limit yourself to the strength, power, and vitality you would possess were you a natural dragon while you posses that form, up to and including forfeiting the body if it takes damage that would be fatal to such a dragon
[X] You will cause no unnecessary trauma to myself in the birthing process.
[X] If the pregnancy fails for any reason except my deliberate and malicious termination it shall be considered a natural death and result in forfeiting of the body.
[X] You shall not harm any citizen of the fire nation, any of it's subordinate nations, or any nations that are born from same unless they attack you first.
[X] You will not knowingly goad any so protected into attacking you.
[X] If the presence of your body threatens the existence of a child naturally conceived for any reason, you shall terminate the body yourself without harming the child or myself and our deal shall be considered fulfilled.
[X] Use politics 6 to catch any loopholes I missed.
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Solaris
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Garlak
Feb 8 2013, 03:39 AM
Dragons are immortal -- or at least, ageless.

Meaning if she isn't killed, she'll be able to get endless power. A human, at the least, might die after a century and a half-ish.

Plus, we will have given birth to a goddam dragon.

Very against this.
This is a really good point. Seriously, let's not do this. Especially with us removing the law on dragon hunting.
Edited by Solaris, Feb 8 2013, 03:44 AM.
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Pipeman
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Garlak
Feb 8 2013, 03:39 AM
Dragons are immortal -- or at least, ageless.

Meaning if she isn't killed, she'll be able to get endless power. A human, at the least, might die after a century and a half-ish.

Plus, we will have given birth to a goddam dragon.

Very against this.
It's a normal dragon body and not a spirit dragon. She'd be like any other dragon, really.
They can be far more easily killed than someone whose flesh grows back in seconds.
Edited by Pipeman, Feb 8 2013, 03:46 AM.
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Garlak
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... and I'll form the head!
[ * ]
MacroDaemon
Feb 8 2013, 03:41 AM
[X] Eat her.
[X] Continue with all haste.


Yes, there will probably be physical, mental and spiritual mutation, but I simply do not want Yosei to get her hands on a body. Too many problems, no matter what we do. Accidents happen, shit goes wrong, loopholes get missed, etc.
... Why not absorb some of her power, instead? It will super-charge us, result in no mutation or changes, and she doesn't get a body or anything.




Also, I can't believe people are going for the dragon stuff. Ugh. We don't even know if that's possible, argh. And your option STILL would result in the *first* child being a goddam dragon, argh.

If anything, you should insist on it not being the first, AND that it wouldn't be borne by us, but that she'd craft the egg and lay in it until ready to hatch, rather than be birthed by us.
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Yog
Newbie
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Pipeman
Feb 8 2013, 03:42 AM
thisisinsane
Feb 8 2013, 03:34 AM
[X] You will craft for yourself a DRAGON body- egg and all.
[X] You will forfeit all right to succession, even in the event that all others of my line are extinguished.
[X] You will limit yourself to the strength, power, and vitality you would possess were you a natural dragon while you posses that form, up to and including forfeiting the body if it takes damage that would be fatal to such a dragon
[X] You will cause no unnecessary trauma to myself in the birthing process.
[X] If the pregnancy fails for any reason except my deliberate and malicious termination it shall be considered a natural death and result in forfeiting of the body.
[X] You shall not harm any citizen of the fire nation, any of it's subordinate nations, or any nations that are born from same unless they attack you first.
[X] You will not knowingly goad any so protected into attacking you.
[X] If the presence of your body threatens the existence of a child naturally conceived for any reason, you shall terminate the body yourself without harming the child or myself and our deal shall be considered fulfilled.
[X] Use politics 6 to catch any loopholes I missed.

So I figured I'd try to make a workable deal. Adjust or reject as you all see fit, but I thought we should at least consider it.
This sounds good. Maybe exchange some of the clauses for a simple 'You will follow my commands'.

[x] Support

Now we don't even have to look for a dragon to ride.


EnderofWorlds
Feb 8 2013, 03:42 AM
[X] You will craft for yourself a DRAGON body- egg and all.
[X] You will forfeit all right to succession, even in the event that all others of my line are extinguished.
[X] You will limit yourself to the strength, power, and vitality you would possess were you a natural dragon while you posses that form, up to and including forfeiting the body if it takes damage that would be fatal to such a dragon
[X] You will cause no unnecessary trauma to myself in the birthing process.
[X] If the pregnancy fails for any reason except my deliberate and malicious termination it shall be considered a natural death and result in forfeiting of the body.
[X] You shall not harm any citizen of the fire nation, any of it's subordinate nations, or any nations that are born from same unless they attack you first.
[X] You will not knowingly goad any so protected into attacking you.
[X] If the presence of your body threatens the existence of a child naturally conceived for any reason, you shall terminate the body yourself without harming the child or myself and our deal shall be considered fulfilled.
[X] Use politics 6 to catch any loopholes I missed.


WHY???!!!

This is the BETTER DEAL FOR HER THAT SHE ASKED FOR! And she expected her offer to be rejected.

Do you know how negotiation works? One side makes an offer, another side rejects it and makes a counter-offer. They reach a middle ground.

This is us basically caving to all her demands and giving her even more than she asked for.

NO, NO, NO.

Flat out no.

No way.

We start negotiating with our counter proposal, to see how low she would go.

She is desperate too.

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Pipeman
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Garlak
Feb 8 2013, 03:46 AM
MacroDaemon
Feb 8 2013, 03:41 AM
[X] Eat her.
[X] Continue with all haste.


Yes, there will probably be physical, mental and spiritual mutation, but I simply do not want Yosei to get her hands on a body. Too many problems, no matter what we do. Accidents happen, shit goes wrong, loopholes get missed, etc.
... Why not absorb some of her power, instead? It will super-charge us, result in no mutation or changes, and she doesn't get a body or anything.
Chibi just said that doesn't work.
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MacroDaemon
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Garlak
Feb 8 2013, 03:46 AM
MacroDaemon
Feb 8 2013, 03:41 AM
[X] Eat her.
[X] Continue with all haste.


Yes, there will probably be physical, mental and spiritual mutation, but I simply do not want Yosei to get her hands on a body. Too many problems, no matter what we do. Accidents happen, shit goes wrong, loopholes get missed, etc.
... Why not absorb some of her power, instead? It will super-charge us, result in no mutation or changes, and she doesn't get a body or anything.
Uhm, well, to be honest, mostly because I believe eating her has more votes than the other option and I feel that pretty much anything else is better than giving Yosei a body. Sorry, heh..
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Yog
Newbie
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Pipeman
Feb 8 2013, 03:44 AM
Garlak
Feb 8 2013, 03:39 AM
Dragons are immortal -- or at least, ageless.

Meaning if she isn't killed, she'll be able to get endless power. A human, at the least, might die after a century and a half-ish.

Plus, we will have given birth to a goddam dragon.

Very against this.
It's a normal dragon body and not a spirit dragon. She'd be like any other dragon, really.
They can be far more easily killed than someone whose flesh grows back in seconds.
It is still giving her a body.

We don't need to start our negotiation by agreeing to give her a body.

At all. We don't want her to have a body. Much less dragon body.

We should start with a counter-offer that doesn't result in her getting one.
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Garlak
Member Avatar
... and I'll form the head!
[ * ]
Pipeman
Feb 8 2013, 03:44 AM
Garlak
Feb 8 2013, 03:39 AM
Dragons are immortal -- or at least, ageless.

Meaning if she isn't killed, she'll be able to get endless power. A human, at the least, might die after a century and a half-ish.

Plus, we will have given birth to a goddam dragon.

Very against this.
It's a normal dragon body and not a spirit dragon. She'd be like any other dragon, really.
They can be far more easily killed than someone whose flesh grows back in seconds.
Dragons! Are! Ageless!!

Sure, she can be KILLED. But not if she plays things smart.

And she could decide to just go off somewhere and fly around and bend a lot, and get super-powered in just years or decades rather than the centuries that dragons have to take.

How long did it take for Yosei's previous human host to be able to match the freaking Avatar? Years? Decades? She'll get just as powerful just as fast as a dragon... And then she'll continue living. And she'll be able to live forever unless killed, and she'll be growing stronger each time she used Bending.




Did you consider this at all?
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Torgamous
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Untitled
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Garlak
Feb 8 2013, 02:55 AM
How would YOSEI avoid a claim to the throne? Without doing so in a way that would bring trouble?
Change the time of formation from "first time we lay with our husband" to "first time we're impregnated", and Navi'll be one of a pair of twins. We tell her to come out second. "The first time following our first pregnancy" would also work.

Not foolproof, since the heir can die, but it'll avoid immediate complications and give us some more time to work with.
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Yog
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MacroDaemon
Feb 8 2013, 03:48 AM
Uhm, well, to be honest, mostly because I believe eating her has more votes than the other option and I feel that pretty much anything else is better than giving Yosei a body. Sorry, heh..
Why not try negotiating first? Without agreeing to give her a body.
Torgamous
Feb 8 2013, 03:49 AM
Garlak
Feb 8 2013, 02:55 AM
How would YOSEI avoid a claim to the throne? Without doing so in a way that would bring trouble?
Change the time of formation from "first time we lay with our husband" to "first time we're impregnated", and Navi'll be one of a pair of twins. We tell her to come out second. "The first time following our first pregnancy" would also work.

Not foolproof, since the heir can die, but it'll avoid immediate complications and give us some more time to work with.
Why do you want to start the negotiation by agreeing to get her a body at all? We don't want her to get a body. At all.

We should start with an offer that doesn't get her one.
Edited by Yog, Feb 8 2013, 03:50 AM.
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EnderofWorlds
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Snow Fairy and Winter Saint
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Yog
Feb 8 2013, 03:48 AM
It is still giving her a body.

We don't need to start our negotiation by agreeing to give her a body.

At all. We don't want her to have a body. Much less dragon body.

We should start with a counter-offer that doesn't result in her getting one.
I do; another asset on our side in the future if we play our cards right.
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Garlak
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... and I'll form the head!
[ * ]
MacroDaemon
Feb 8 2013, 03:48 AM
Garlak
Feb 8 2013, 03:46 AM
MacroDaemon
Feb 8 2013, 03:41 AM
[X] Eat her.
[X] Continue with all haste.


Yes, there will probably be physical, mental and spiritual mutation, but I simply do not want Yosei to get her hands on a body. Too many problems, no matter what we do. Accidents happen, shit goes wrong, loopholes get missed, etc.
... Why not absorb some of her power, instead? It will super-charge us, result in no mutation or changes, and she doesn't get a body or anything.
Uhm, well, to be honest, mostly because I believe eating her has more votes than the other option and I feel that pretty much anything else is better than giving Yosei a body. Sorry, heh..


... Then at least maybe vote for "Either super-charge, or eat her; no giving her a body"?

Pipeman
Feb 8 2013, 03:47 AM
Garlak
Feb 8 2013, 03:46 AM
MacroDaemon
Feb 8 2013, 03:41 AM
[X] Eat her.
[X] Continue with all haste.


Yes, there will probably be physical, mental and spiritual mutation, but I simply do not want Yosei to get her hands on a body. Too many problems, no matter what we do. Accidents happen, shit goes wrong, loopholes get missed, etc.
... Why not absorb some of her power, instead? It will super-charge us, result in no mutation or changes, and she doesn't get a body or anything.
Chibi just said that doesn't work.


No, that is explicitly NOT what Chibi said. If we eat her, we get long-term-ish power, but mutations.

If we instead absorb power but NOT eat her, we get a super-charge for a while that we can use to get to the mountain, and no mutations.

Chibi
 
Yeah, might not have clarified that, but physical ingestion means that you're slowly 'digesting'... well, along with literally digesting, everything. There's an upper safe limit to how much you can have in the tank, and this just fills it up and keeps it at that limit until you hit the end goal and spew the fairy back out. Part of why it's mutating you in many potential ways.

The other way, external power injecting or however you want to call it, fills you up to the top once, and then some, beyond normal limits and right to the point where you're a hair away from exploding. You have to get moving, quickly, after that, because you risk unexpected incandescence and such until you get it back down to 'safe' capacity if you don't burn some of that off, though you don't risk mutation because it's not that slow and steady infusion, just setting yourself on fire maybe. A few scars, possibly. But it still leaves a mass of extra power that you can't take in, but she can't keep, because it would still leave her too big. So your choices are throw it uselessly away, or give it to someone else, who has 'room in the tank', as it were.
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GLH
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Newbie
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Hey Chibi, should I be doing vote counts? Also, is there some way to get rid of the first post from showing up on every page?
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Yog
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EnderofWorlds
Feb 8 2013, 03:50 AM
I do; another asset on our side in the future if we play our cards right.
She is evil.

Chibi flat-out stated that she is evil.

We aren't converting her. She's an evil inhuman monster hedonist.
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Pipeman
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Yog
Feb 8 2013, 03:47 AM
Pipeman
Feb 8 2013, 03:42 AM
thisisinsane
Feb 8 2013, 03:34 AM
[X] You will craft for yourself a DRAGON body- egg and all.
[X] You will forfeit all right to succession, even in the event that all others of my line are extinguished.
[X] You will limit yourself to the strength, power, and vitality you would possess were you a natural dragon while you posses that form, up to and including forfeiting the body if it takes damage that would be fatal to such a dragon
[X] You will cause no unnecessary trauma to myself in the birthing process.
[X] If the pregnancy fails for any reason except my deliberate and malicious termination it shall be considered a natural death and result in forfeiting of the body.
[X] You shall not harm any citizen of the fire nation, any of it's subordinate nations, or any nations that are born from same unless they attack you first.
[X] You will not knowingly goad any so protected into attacking you.
[X] If the presence of your body threatens the existence of a child naturally conceived for any reason, you shall terminate the body yourself without harming the child or myself and our deal shall be considered fulfilled.
[X] Use politics 6 to catch any loopholes I missed.

So I figured I'd try to make a workable deal. Adjust or reject as you all see fit, but I thought we should at least consider it.
This sounds good. Maybe exchange some of the clauses for a simple 'You will follow my commands'.

[x] Support

Now we don't even have to look for a dragon to ride.


EnderofWorlds
Feb 8 2013, 03:42 AM
[X] You will craft for yourself a DRAGON body- egg and all.
[X] You will forfeit all right to succession, even in the event that all others of my line are extinguished.
[X] You will limit yourself to the strength, power, and vitality you would possess were you a natural dragon while you posses that form, up to and including forfeiting the body if it takes damage that would be fatal to such a dragon
[X] You will cause no unnecessary trauma to myself in the birthing process.
[X] If the pregnancy fails for any reason except my deliberate and malicious termination it shall be considered a natural death and result in forfeiting of the body.
[X] You shall not harm any citizen of the fire nation, any of it's subordinate nations, or any nations that are born from same unless they attack you first.
[X] You will not knowingly goad any so protected into attacking you.
[X] If the presence of your body threatens the existence of a child naturally conceived for any reason, you shall terminate the body yourself without harming the child or myself and our deal shall be considered fulfilled.
[X] Use politics 6 to catch any loopholes I missed.


WHY???!!!

This is the BETTER DEAL FOR HER THAT SHE ASKED FOR! And she expected her offer to be rejected.

Do you know how negotiation works? One side makes an offer, another side rejects it and makes a counter-offer. They reach a middle ground.

This is us basically caving to all her demands and giving her even more than she asked for.

NO, NO, NO.

Flat out no.

No way.

We start negotiating with our counter proposal, to see how low she would go.

She is desperate too.

Because it is NOT more than she asked for.

A dragon is only as powerful as a dragon.
There are other dragons.
They are not running around doing crazy shit because we'd just kill them.

Being a dragon also prevents her from passing herself off as human until Navi, of all people, has the patience to learn the transformation trick and given that most of the Fire Nation doesn't believe dragons can be born from humans, she will not be seen as our monster child that eats people, but out pet dragon that isn't very well trained.

It gives her more leeway in her behaviour, gives us deniability for her actions and reduces her from volcano spirit with instant-regeneration-hax to young dragon in terms of power.
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Garlak
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... and I'll form the head!
[ * ]
Torgamous
Feb 8 2013, 03:49 AM
Garlak
Feb 8 2013, 02:55 AM
How would YOSEI avoid a claim to the throne? Without doing so in a way that would bring trouble?
Change the time of formation from "first time we lay with our husband" to "first time we're impregnated", and Navi'll be one of a pair of twins. We tell her to come out second. "The first time following our first pregnancy" would also work.

Not foolproof, since the heir can die, but it'll avoid immediate complications and give us some more time to work with.
Change it to "after we've had several kids, first" for god's sakes.

If she's part of a twin, then she'd be the second child, and standing to inherit!



And, frankly, I STILL don't want to give her a goddam body at all!

And yet there are people out there who want to give her even MORE -- to get a DRAGON body, goddamit!!
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thisisinsane
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Newbie
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Garlak
Feb 8 2013, 03:39 AM
Dragons are immortal -- or at least, ageless.

Meaning if she isn't killed, she'll be able to get endless power. A human, at the least, might die after a century and a half-ish.

Plus, we will have given birth to a goddam dragon.

Very against this.
And she can't hurt any of our citizens with that power, and she'd be limited to the power that that body would naturally posses as long as she had it. Navi would be a dragon with Navi's knowledge that can't hurt our citizens in every meaningful way until she died and would die as a dragon. She gets a lot of power from that which she can't use until she's booted back to the spirit world. But two more conditions.
[X] You may not make any Deals without my permission in that body.
[X] you may not seek to gain rulership of any nation or person while you posses that body.

If you can explain why it's still a bad idea then I'll shift my vote away from it, but I'll need an actual concern here.
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Pipeman
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Garlak
Feb 8 2013, 03:49 AM
Pipeman
Feb 8 2013, 03:44 AM
Garlak
Feb 8 2013, 03:39 AM
Dragons are immortal -- or at least, ageless.

Meaning if she isn't killed, she'll be able to get endless power. A human, at the least, might die after a century and a half-ish.

Plus, we will have given birth to a goddam dragon.

Very against this.
It's a normal dragon body and not a spirit dragon. She'd be like any other dragon, really.
They can be far more easily killed than someone whose flesh grows back in seconds.
Dragons! Are! Ageless!!

Sure, she can be KILLED. But not if she plays things smart.

And she could decide to just go off somewhere and fly around and bend a lot, and get super-powered in just years or decades rather than the centuries that dragons have to take.

How long did it take for Yosei's previous human host to be able to match the freaking Avatar? Years? Decades? She'll get just as powerful just as fast as a dragon... And then she'll continue living. And she'll be able to live forever unless killed, and she'll be growing stronger each time she used Bending.




Did you consider this at all?
She has to stay by our side, Navi doesn't play smart, she's impulsive, and feedback wouldn't make her dragon body more powerful.
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Garlak
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Pipeman
Feb 8 2013, 03:53 AM
Yog
Feb 8 2013, 03:47 AM
Pipeman
Feb 8 2013, 03:42 AM
thisisinsane
Feb 8 2013, 03:34 AM
[X] You will craft for yourself a DRAGON body- egg and all.
[X] You will forfeit all right to succession, even in the event that all others of my line are extinguished.
[X] You will limit yourself to the strength, power, and vitality you would possess were you a natural dragon while you posses that form, up to and including forfeiting the body if it takes damage that would be fatal to such a dragon
[X] You will cause no unnecessary trauma to myself in the birthing process.
[X] If the pregnancy fails for any reason except my deliberate and malicious termination it shall be considered a natural death and result in forfeiting of the body.
[X] You shall not harm any citizen of the fire nation, any of it's subordinate nations, or any nations that are born from same unless they attack you first.
[X] You will not knowingly goad any so protected into attacking you.
[X] If the presence of your body threatens the existence of a child naturally conceived for any reason, you shall terminate the body yourself without harming the child or myself and our deal shall be considered fulfilled.
[X] Use politics 6 to catch any loopholes I missed.

So I figured I'd try to make a workable deal. Adjust or reject as you all see fit, but I thought we should at least consider it.
This sounds good. Maybe exchange some of the clauses for a simple 'You will follow my commands'.

[x] Support

Now we don't even have to look for a dragon to ride.


EnderofWorlds
Feb 8 2013, 03:42 AM
[X] You will craft for yourself a DRAGON body- egg and all.
[X] You will forfeit all right to succession, even in the event that all others of my line are extinguished.
[X] You will limit yourself to the strength, power, and vitality you would possess were you a natural dragon while you posses that form, up to and including forfeiting the body if it takes damage that would be fatal to such a dragon
[X] You will cause no unnecessary trauma to myself in the birthing process.
[X] If the pregnancy fails for any reason except my deliberate and malicious termination it shall be considered a natural death and result in forfeiting of the body.
[X] You shall not harm any citizen of the fire nation, any of it's subordinate nations, or any nations that are born from same unless they attack you first.
[X] You will not knowingly goad any so protected into attacking you.
[X] If the presence of your body threatens the existence of a child naturally conceived for any reason, you shall terminate the body yourself without harming the child or myself and our deal shall be considered fulfilled.
[X] Use politics 6 to catch any loopholes I missed.


WHY???!!!

This is the BETTER DEAL FOR HER THAT SHE ASKED FOR! And she expected her offer to be rejected.

Do you know how negotiation works? One side makes an offer, another side rejects it and makes a counter-offer. They reach a middle ground.

This is us basically caving to all her demands and giving her even more than she asked for.

NO, NO, NO.

Flat out no.

No way.

We start negotiating with our counter proposal, to see how low she would go.

She is desperate too.

Because it is NOT more than she asked for.

A dragon is only as powerful as a dragon.
There are other dragons.
They are not running around doing crazy shit because we'd just kill them.

Being a dragon also prevents her from passing herself off as human until Navi, of all people, has the patience to learn the transformation trick and given that most of the Fire Nation doesn't believe dragons can be born from humans, she will not be seen as our monster child that eats people, but out pet dragon that isn't very well trained.

It gives her more leeway in her behaviour, gives us deniability for her actions and reduces her from volcano spirit with instant-regeneration-hax to young dragon in terms of power.
"Not more than she asked for"?

She asked for a human body, and you suggested giving her an AGELESS body, that is also extremely powerful -- more powerful than a human.

What the hell man.

How can you not see that a dragon body is superior to a human body, as far as power (and longevity!) goes?
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Yog
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Pipeman
Feb 8 2013, 03:53 AM
Because it is NOT more than she asked for.

A dragon is only as powerful as a dragon.
There are other dragons.
They are not running around doing crazy shit because we'd just kill them.

Being a dragon also prevents her from passing herself off as human until Navi, of all people, has the patience to learn the transformation trick and given that most of the Fire Nation doesn't believe dragons can be born from humans, she will not be seen as our monster child that eats people, but out pet dragon that isn't very well trained.

It gives her more leeway in her behaviour, gives us deniability for her actions and reduces her from volcano spirit with instant-regeneration-hax to young dragon in terms of power.
Dragons are still natural benders. And it has natural understanding of bending as it is.

And why would you want to get any body at all?

We should start as low as possible. Giving her any body is not low. It's pretty much caving in to her demands.
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Pipeman
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Garlak
Feb 8 2013, 03:52 AM
No, that is explicitly NOT what Chibi said. If we eat her, we get long-term-ish power, but mutations.

If we instead absorb power but NOT eat her, we get a super-charge for a while that we can use to get to the mountain, and no mutations.
You're forgetting, that the second option requires compensating Navi.
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EnderofWorlds
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Yog
Feb 8 2013, 03:53 AM
EnderofWorlds
Feb 8 2013, 03:50 AM
I do; another asset on our side in the future if we play our cards right.
She is evil.

Chibi flat-out stated that she is evil.

We aren't converting her. She's an evil inhuman monster hedonist.
And? We're technically 'evil' too you know. Evil is subjective; she's not some schemer trying to turn the world to ruin, she's basically a teenage sorority chick with a lack of morals. Nothing a proper contract can't handle.
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Garlak
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Pipeman
Feb 8 2013, 03:55 AM
Garlak
Feb 8 2013, 03:49 AM
Pipeman
Feb 8 2013, 03:44 AM
Garlak
Feb 8 2013, 03:39 AM
Dragons are immortal -- or at least, ageless.

Meaning if she isn't killed, she'll be able to get endless power. A human, at the least, might die after a century and a half-ish.

Plus, we will have given birth to a goddam dragon.

Very against this.
It's a normal dragon body and not a spirit dragon. She'd be like any other dragon, really.
They can be far more easily killed than someone whose flesh grows back in seconds.
Dragons! Are! Ageless!!

Sure, she can be KILLED. But not if she plays things smart.

And she could decide to just go off somewhere and fly around and bend a lot, and get super-powered in just years or decades rather than the centuries that dragons have to take.

How long did it take for Yosei's previous human host to be able to match the freaking Avatar? Years? Decades? She'll get just as powerful just as fast as a dragon... And then she'll continue living. And she'll be able to live forever unless killed, and she'll be growing stronger each time she used Bending.




Did you consider this at all?
She has to stay by our side, Navi doesn't play smart, she's impulsive, and feedback wouldn't make her dragon body more powerful.


Are you sure? Really sure?

And even if feedback doesn't, then I bet sheer aging (like other dragons gain power) would get her that power.

thisisinsane
Feb 8 2013, 03:54 AM
Garlak
Feb 8 2013, 03:39 AM
Dragons are immortal -- or at least, ageless.

Meaning if she isn't killed, she'll be able to get endless power. A human, at the least, might die after a century and a half-ish.

Plus, we will have given birth to a goddam dragon.

Very against this.
And she can't hurt any of our citizens with that power, and she'd be limited to the power that that body would naturally posses as long as she had it. Navi would be a dragon with Navi's knowledge that can't hurt our citizens in every meaningful way until she died and would die as a dragon. She gets a lot of power from that which she can't use until she's booted back to the spirit world. But two more conditions.
[X] You may not make any Deals without my permission in that body.
[X] you may not seek to gain rulership of any nation or person while you posses that body.

If you can explain why it's still a bad idea then I'll shift my vote away from it, but I'll need an actual concern here.


I've given plenty of reasons for why it's a bad idea, you just seem to disagree.

And what do you mean by "limited to the power that body would naturally possess"? It's a goddam dragon, they are damn powerful. And she would be getting power from her bending, too. AND she would be getting power from OUR bending too!


There's also the political shitstorm that will happen if we give birth to a dragon.
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Yog
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Feb 8 2013, 03:57 AM
Garlak
Feb 8 2013, 03:52 AM
No, that is explicitly NOT what Chibi said. If we eat her, we get long-term-ish power, but mutations.

If we instead absorb power but NOT eat her, we get a super-charge for a while that we can use to get to the mountain, and no mutations.
You're forgetting, that the second option requires compensating Navi.
And this is what my counter offer is. She gets a chance to keep the contract she has with us past our death.

I expect her to negotiate up from that. To demand that our child has to offer his or her child, etc.

But it will be negate the "I want the body" part.

We need to firmly reject that part. Very firmly.

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Garlak
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Pipeman
Feb 8 2013, 03:57 AM
Garlak
Feb 8 2013, 03:52 AM
No, that is explicitly NOT what Chibi said. If we eat her, we get long-term-ish power, but mutations.

If we instead absorb power but NOT eat her, we get a super-charge for a while that we can use to get to the mountain, and no mutations.
You're forgetting, that the second option requires compensating Navi.
NOPE!


The second option does NOT!


It's ONLY if we give that power to ZUKO that she requires compensation!
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Yog
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EnderofWorlds
Feb 8 2013, 03:58 AM
Yog
Feb 8 2013, 03:53 AM
EnderofWorlds
Feb 8 2013, 03:50 AM
I do; another asset on our side in the future if we play our cards right.
She is evil.

Chibi flat-out stated that she is evil.

We aren't converting her. She's an evil inhuman monster hedonist.
And? We're technically 'evil' too you know. Evil is subjective; she's not some schemer trying to turn the world to ruin, she's basically a teenage sorority chick with a lack of morals. Nothing a proper contract can't handle.
We have done everything in our power to not be evil.

She is just plain evil.

There is huge difference.
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thisisinsane
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Yog
Feb 8 2013, 03:56 AM
Dragons are still natural benders. And it has natural understanding of bending as it is.

And why would you want to get any body at all?

We should start as low as possible. Giving her any body is not low. It's pretty much caving in to her demands.
We have no time for protracted negotiations- Zuko is fighting for his life now!!
We have to give her our best offer because we don't have time for anything else.
If she takes it great, if not, if she tries to get anything else- down the hatch.
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Pipeman
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Yog
Feb 8 2013, 03:56 AM
Dragons are still natural benders. And it has natural understanding of bending as it is.

And why would you want to get any body at all?

We should start as low as possible. Giving her any body is not low. It's pretty much caving in to her demands.
The feedback effect is specifically blocked by the 'as powerful as a natural dragon' part.

And quite frankly, I agree that we shouldn't just come right out with the offer but reluctantly let us be guided to it and slap as many restrictions and advantages as we can on it.

That seems kind of obvious to me.
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EnderofWorlds
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Yog
Feb 8 2013, 03:59 AM
Pipeman
Feb 8 2013, 03:57 AM
Garlak
Feb 8 2013, 03:52 AM
No, that is explicitly NOT what Chibi said. If we eat her, we get long-term-ish power, but mutations.

If we instead absorb power but NOT eat her, we get a super-charge for a while that we can use to get to the mountain, and no mutations.
You're forgetting, that the second option requires compensating Navi.
And this is what my counter offer is. She gets a chance to keep the contract she has with us past our death.

I expect her to negotiate up from that. To demand that our child has to offer his or her child, etc.

But it will be negate the "I want the body" part.

We need to firmly reject that part. Very firmly.

And I want her to have a body; again, think Alucard from Hellsing. Now think that, but with fire and on our side.

A proper contract will handle any pressing concerns you have. We have nothing to worry about.
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Aaron Peori
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Garlak
Feb 8 2013, 03:56 AM
She asked for a human body, and you suggested giving her an AGELESS body, that is also extremely powerful -- more powerful than a human.

What the hell man.

How can you not see that a dragon body is superior to a human body, as far as power (and longevity!) goes?


Hey, I'm all for human body with human lifespan.

I'm just gonna throw in my vote with whatever option is most likely to help Zuko here.

-----------
Epsilon
Pst. Trim your quotes people.
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d.fish
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Sure, looks good.

DRAGON MOUNT, BITCHES!
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Yog
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thisisinsane
Feb 8 2013, 04:01 AM
Yog
Feb 8 2013, 03:56 AM
Dragons are still natural benders. And it has natural understanding of bending as it is.

And why would you want to get any body at all?

We should start as low as possible. Giving her any body is not low. It's pretty much caving in to her demands.
We have no time for protracted negotiations- Zuko is fighting for his life now!!
We have to give her our best offer because we don't have time for anything else.
If she takes it great, if not, if she tries to get anything else- down the hatch.
And Navi can send her power through time, as well as space.

And Zuko is a great swordsman.

And we should have some faith in him. He is not a bumbling half-wit with no talent. We know this IC and OOC. He has trained in sword arts here far more than in canon.

Fairy wants us to be desperate.

Fairy itself is desperate. If it doesn't agree to our deal, it dies. End. Finita la comedia.

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Alratan
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We should not offer her a dragon body, or any body at all. The one exception I would contemplate is if she looses all her memories of being a spirit when wearing mortal form, so she'd mentally start off as a normal child.

We certainly shouldn't eat her. We need to help Zuko here. Not doing so could be vey bad for Azula's metal health.

We should at least make the counter-offer of her being allowed to experience the sensations and empower/be empowered by members of the royal family descended from Azula. She has to promise not to try to make further deals with them or speak without being given temporary permission to. Might want to include making no deals with anyone else some other poor victim won't give her a body.

I don't see a downside to a least making a counter-offer. If she rejects it, we can choose something else.
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Pipeman
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Garlak
Feb 8 2013, 04:00 AM
Pipeman
Feb 8 2013, 03:57 AM
Garlak
Feb 8 2013, 03:52 AM
No, that is explicitly NOT what Chibi said. If we eat her, we get long-term-ish power, but mutations.

If we instead absorb power but NOT eat her, we get a super-charge for a while that we can use to get to the mountain, and no mutations.
You're forgetting, that the second option requires compensating Navi.
NOPE!


The second option does NOT!


It's ONLY if we give that power to ZUKO that she requires compensation!
Read again:

Quote:
 
Yeah, might not have clarified that, but physical ingestion means that you're slowly 'digesting'... well, along with literally digesting, everything. There's an upper safe limit to how much you can have in the tank, and this just fills it up and keeps it at that limit until you hit the end goal and spew the fairy back out. Part of why it's mutating you in many potential ways.

The other way, external power injecting or however you want to call it, fills you up to the top once, and then some, beyond normal limits and right to the point where you're a hair away from exploding. You have to get moving, quickly, after that, because you risk unexpected incandescence and such until you get it back down to 'safe' capacity if you don't burn some of that off, though you don't risk mutation because it's not that slow and steady infusion, just setting yourself on fire maybe. A few scars, possibly. But it still leaves a mass of extra power that you can't take in, but she can't keep, because it would still leave her too big. So your choices are throw it uselessly away, or give it to someone else, who has 'room in the tank', as it were.
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MacroDaemon
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You know, we could probably just threaten the fairy by saying we'll chuck it out into the rain if it doesn't send power to Zuko.. Sure, it's not a nice thing to do, but totally within our power right now.
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Solaris
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Yog
Feb 8 2013, 04:03 AM
thisisinsane
Feb 8 2013, 04:01 AM
Yog
Feb 8 2013, 03:56 AM
Dragons are still natural benders. And it has natural understanding of bending as it is.

And why would you want to get any body at all?

We should start as low as possible. Giving her any body is not low. It's pretty much caving in to her demands.
We have no time for protracted negotiations- Zuko is fighting for his life now!!
We have to give her our best offer because we don't have time for anything else.
If she takes it great, if not, if she tries to get anything else- down the hatch.
And Navi can send her power through time, as well as space.

And Zuko is a great swordsman.

And we should have some faith in him. He is not a bumbling half-wit with no talent. We know this IC and OOC. He has trained in sword arts here far more than in canon.

Fairy wants us to be desperate.

Fairy itself is desperate. If it doesn't agree to our deal, it dies. End. Finita la comedia.

Forgot that our deal breaks space time here. Let's hash this deal out properly dammit.
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Garlak
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EnderofWorlds
Feb 8 2013, 03:58 AM
Yog
Feb 8 2013, 03:53 AM
EnderofWorlds
Feb 8 2013, 03:50 AM
I do; another asset on our side in the future if we play our cards right.
She is evil.

Chibi flat-out stated that she is evil.

We aren't converting her. She's an evil inhuman monster hedonist.
And? We're technically 'evil' too you know. Evil is subjective; she's not some schemer trying to turn the world to ruin, she's basically a teenage sorority chick with a lack of morals. Nothing a proper contract can't handle.
We are not evil. Because we do not act on our more troublesome instincts.


Plus, she's less sorority chick, more Caligula.


And, evil is subjective? Okay.

That is not a meaningful arguement. It's just a statement.

Think about *how* evil she is, and in what way. She set people on fire to make them run faster. She dropped people off roofs to hear them splat. She ate the people she killed because why not. She also had sex with whatever she cared to, consenting or not, and with whatever age or being it was.

She would be damn hard to control or limit, and she would still be careless cruel and damaging under all that.



ALSO, THERE'S THE VERY REAL POSSIBILITY THAT GIVING A SPIRIT A BODY? WOULD BE SEEN BY THE FIRE SAGES AS SOMETHING WORTH KILLING US OVER.
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EnderofWorlds
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Yog
Feb 8 2013, 04:00 AM
We have done everything in our power to not be evil.

She is just plain evil.

There is huge difference.
...As evil as a self-indulgent person with very loose, nonexistent morals is; yes. Again, she's not trying to destroy the world, bring forth chaos, or anything major I would consider 'evil'. At least, the kind of evil I worry about.

She just wants to party around and drink booze; negotiations will cut out the more...unwelcome possibilities of indulgence. That doesn't really seem evil to me...
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Yog
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Pipeman
Feb 8 2013, 04:01 AM
Yog
Feb 8 2013, 03:56 AM
Dragons are still natural benders. And it has natural understanding of bending as it is.

And why would you want to get any body at all?

We should start as low as possible. Giving her any body is not low. It's pretty much caving in to her demands.
The feedback effect is specifically blocked by the 'as powerful as a natural dragon' part.

And quite frankly, I agree that we shouldn't just come right out with the offer but reluctantly let us be guided to it and slap as many restrictions and advantages as we can on it.

That seems kind of obvious to me.
Dragons have no upper cap on their power.

No, flat no.

Also, I think I stated my arguments several times already.

I can stand the stupidity only for so long (sorry, but this is too frustrating).

I'll check on this later. To know if I need to drop this.

Because no, I won't be able to continue if we go through with this.
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Aaron Peori
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Alratan
Feb 8 2013, 04:03 AM
We should not offer her a dragon body, or any body at all. The one exception I would contemplate is if she looses all her memories of being a spirit when wearing mortal form, so she'd mentally start off as a normal child.



This would be hilarious if she has the ability to really effect things backwards in time and the child that is born with no knowledge she's actually an evil spirit is us.

---------
Epsilon
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Solaris
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Thinking about it, giving Navi a body sure would be a good reason to get the Avatar on our tail.
Edited by Solaris, Feb 8 2013, 04:09 AM.
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thisisinsane
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Garlak
Feb 8 2013, 03:59 AM
I've given plenty of reasons for why it's a bad idea, you just seem to disagree.

And what do you mean by "limited to the power that body would naturally possess"? It's a goddam dragon, they are damn powerful. And she would be getting power from her bending, too. AND she would be getting power from OUR bending too!


There's also the political shitstorm that will happen if we give birth to a dragon.
I mean that she doesn't get spirit haxx while in that body-she doesn't get to use extra power she gets from her bending or ours in that form. She can only save it up. Chibi can probably phrase it better but I'm saying she's stuck with the physical and bending abilities of an average dragon of that age, which is powerful but very kill-able.

As for the political shitstorm- that only matters If they can prove it. Iroh said it was as simple as destroying the shells to prevent that.
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EnderofWorlds
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Solaris
Feb 8 2013, 04:07 AM
Thinking about it, giving Navi a body sure would be a good reason to get the Avatar on our tail.
Only if she ends up doing some real heinous shit; which, again, any binding contract will cut out.
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