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| Azula Quest; A princess is you? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Feb 7 2013, 10:23 PM (38,734 Views) | |
| Chibi-Reaper | Feb 7 2013, 10:23 PM Post #1 |
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Likely to what by a wha?
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Posted Image I suppose that this would be the best place to pick this up from. Definitely going to have to re-create or gather together all of the previous posts, of course. Story Alone, right from post numero uno. Azula. 15 years old. Fourth month, ninth day, of year 100 ASC Master Firebender [23/6] -"Butterfly Wings" Fire-flight [3/???] -"Rocket Boost" Advanced flame propulsion [1/???] -"Dragon's Breath" burning exhalation [3/???] -"Advanced Fire Stream" focused fire spout [2/???] --"Hunting Dragon" Flame Spout Seeking Missile [1/???] -"Flame Wall" basically that. [1/???] -"Pinwheel Shot" distance projectile [1/???] -"Butterfly Swarm" razor-fire butterflies [1/???] -"Lava Bending" Fortress Killer [1/X] -"Inner Fire Reinforcement" Self-buff [2/???] -"Edge Enhance" Sword-buff Flames [1/???] -"Voice of Command?" ...not what it says on the tin? [1/1?] Air Bender [4/?] -"Cold Sky Fire" Lighting manipulation. [4/???] --"???" Force Lightning Taser? [1/???] --"???" Electro-Net. [1/???] Advanced Etiquette [2/2?] Spiritualism [3/3?] Leadership [6/???] Politics [6/???] "Agressive Self Defense" [3/???] -Unpleasant Surprises [2/?] Strategy [4/???] Logistics [2/???] Second Child Arts [1/???] Somewhat Cultured [4/???] Basic Trading Knowledge [2/???] Creepy child. Praise the Sun. Fire Good. ... Jealous. So jealous. Once burned, twice....? Tea-sipper. Ruby Butterfly. Divine Right of Kings? Cap'n Jin. Toph Customer, or some other pun. Old Man of the Mountain: Not Your Buddy. Lotus Initiate. Raijin Approves. Fuujin... not so much. Edited by Chibi-Reaper, Feb 9 2013, 06:48 PM.
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| Scope | Feb 8 2013, 01:58 PM Post #401 |
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If for some reason the body thing wins out. Restrict her to a human lifetime or something. Turn her into our Alucard. Maybe have it so she has to protect our direct descendants and if they all die, she goes too. Or something. |
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| ryuan | Feb 8 2013, 02:01 PM Post #402 |
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Specially because of the feedback loop thing with her powers. Giving her a body is after she does something really great for us like saving Zuko first, then asking if she can have a new body that's not from our own flesh. Giving her a body from our own womb must come after something really monumental, though. Pretty much something in the lines of turning the tides of the war single handed in our favor in case a massive cluster fuck happens in our absence. She knows that having a body for her at all will worth anything. We must also remember that. |
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| target | Feb 8 2013, 02:01 PM Post #403 |
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if its bound to follow our orders and those of the royal family there isnt much wiggel room for it to work with |
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| HioH | Feb 8 2013, 02:04 PM Post #404 |
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Anti vote on anything that gives her a body, especially throu us. |
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| Megaolix | Feb 8 2013, 02:05 PM Post #405 |
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Something that may not have been pointed out... No part in the deal say we can't kill the spirit in a new body if it cause too much trouble, no? |
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| Alratan | Feb 8 2013, 02:06 PM Post #406 |
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Btw, my point about context isn't that we should make a low counteroffer, but that we should make a totally different one, to make it clear we won't let out thinking be conditioned by her initial proposal. |
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| Hymn of Ragnarok | Feb 8 2013, 02:09 PM Post #407 |
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Let me put it this way: Navi is fire. She seeks to spread. She's trying it now. Understandable, but because she is bound to us and cannot make bargains easily, she is firmly held in check. Giving her a body? No more firm check. She has AUTONOMY. Do not give the fire spirit autonomy. Keep her firmly under our control and deny her ability to act independently. |
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| Redon | Feb 8 2013, 02:12 PM Post #408 |
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the baka nerbie
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Yay, I'm through with backing up Witch Quest.... joyyyyyyyyyyyy. *falls over*
Edited by Redon, Feb 8 2013, 02:12 PM.
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| Creticus | Feb 8 2013, 02:14 PM Post #409 |
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Given how spirits seem to behave in this setting, kin-slaying seems like it'll bring up more problems from that sphere. Edited by Creticus, Feb 8 2013, 02:14 PM.
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| target | Feb 8 2013, 02:16 PM Post #410 |
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if its bound to follow our commands then we can command it not to make deals with others while it is flesh |
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| Hymn of Ragnarok | Feb 8 2013, 02:17 PM Post #411 |
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Also, I would not count on Azula being willing to kill the Butterfly's body, even if she can convince everyone else what happened was an accident or a good thing. She's not entirely rational with what she considers HERS. Even if that works, we cannot keep an eye on it all the time. Moreover, we can't take suspicious actions that weaken our political standing in the eyes of others, and the Butterfly can use this against us. Hell, think of the Fire Sages. This right here is the kind of action they WOULD have to try and kill us for, and the Butterfly's child. They sat nice and quite on our case because it skirted the line. Giving a spirit a body? THAT crosses it. The Fire Sages will not just sit back and take this. Edited by Hymn of Ragnarok, Feb 8 2013, 02:18 PM.
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| Larekko12 | Feb 8 2013, 02:22 PM Post #412 |
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Well you give her a body yeah. But then you slap a bunch of restrictions on it so that's she's anything from you wild hedonist daughter that appears sort of chaotic good to your families Alucard with neatly delineated levels of power and bound to argue in good faith for the families self interest. Well that or make our contracts Ancestral, with sensory sharing same accident prevention terms and she can't talk to them without our permission till their majority. The Current Matrairch or Patriarch has supernal negotiation primacy and she has to report any dealish thing to them for going overs unless like the Matriarchs gone all tyrannical crazy? I mean I was pretty okay with everything she did beyond the killing orphans and nasty human experiments, and cannibalism and stuff. And we can proabably attach psychic connections to the deal. But we do have time limit on this stuff. I mean sure this place is atemporal but we can still paradox and stuff. |
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| NSMS | Feb 8 2013, 02:28 PM Post #413 |
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Even if we put restrictions on her, there WILL be something we missed. Not to mention the whole spirit uncontrolled growth of power thing. As for being okay with everything she did beyond the evil stuff... well, her having done non-evil stuff doesn't change the fact that she did the evil stuff. |
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| Earth-Destroyer | Feb 8 2013, 02:28 PM Post #414 |
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If she gains a body she might gain the ability to break her agreements. |
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| Hymn of Ragnarok | Feb 8 2013, 02:32 PM Post #415 |
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And let's not forget: FIRE SAGES. We skirted the line last time. Giving a spirit a body? That's jumping straight over. Let's not make an open enemy of them. We can deal with them not teaching us. We do not want them actively hostile and airing our dirty laundry. |
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| Megaolix | Feb 8 2013, 02:40 PM Post #416 |
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So what? Do we point out to Evil navi that the Fire Sages will pretty much cut that plan of being born short?
Edited by Megaolix, Feb 8 2013, 02:40 PM.
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| Hymn of Ragnarok | Feb 8 2013, 02:43 PM Post #417 |
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It would help convince her that her idea is short sighted and unlikely to bear fruit. Also, it puts us and our associates in so much danger that there is no way we'll agree to it, so she might as well drop the idea entirely. There's just too many things that can go wrong. We give Navi this much rope and we might as well hang ourselves right now. If Navi doesn't do it directly, others will. And the fact that we'd have to keep Navi secret gives her tremendous leverage over us, even if we try to minimize it. So yeah, we can shut this down fast. |
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| Megaolix | Feb 8 2013, 02:47 PM Post #418 |
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Is there any alternative we can propose? Sure, we don't want to give her freedom, but we do need to give something for that deal. |
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| NSMS | Feb 8 2013, 02:50 PM Post #419 |
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Lots of alternatives have been proposed- offering to give her the opportunity to bind herself to others, building shrines, burning stuff, a heridetary contract that lets her experience what our descendants feel... Yeah, we're not short on suggestions. Edited by NSMS, Feb 8 2013, 02:55 PM.
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| Hymn of Ragnarok | Feb 8 2013, 02:53 PM Post #420 |
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I like my suggestion: chance for chance. She's going to lose that power by boosting us, but she can gift some to Zuko. She wants something for that. So, we'll consider finding another candidate for her to bind herself to. No promises, save to look. But then, Navi offers no promises that Zuko will survive intact either. Just giving him a chance. Chance for chance. A chance to recoup the power lost in far greater excess, for a chance of Zuko's survival. Seems like a fair trade for me. And we haggle up from here. Also, on the chance for a chance? The person we and Navi choose may refuse. We want to keep that option open so we aren't forced to pay an additional price. Edited by Hymn of Ragnarok, Feb 8 2013, 02:58 PM.
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| Redon | Feb 8 2013, 03:04 PM Post #421 |
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the baka nerbie
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I'm still voting option one, but if I was going to go the other route why not just make part of the deal having to learn and obey all human laws. Part of the original problem was the fact that the only thing she listened to was what she wanted. |
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| Larekko12 | Feb 8 2013, 03:06 PM Post #422 |
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Ya know it was pretty much this or having both of us die. Or Zuko die and us be warped terribly. All in a situation that in the grand scheme things could have been avoided if you say decided to not act like little bitches and proceeded to educate myself properly if you felt I'd make bad deals or trip into serious situations like this that I had absolutely no reason to suspect could happen. I mean really bad show old chap. Bad Show. There's also GODDDAMN CIVIL WAR you let crop up being weak ineffective little bitches who can't do their jobs or suck up there gorge enough to proactively warn the one member of the royal family who is there and believes in spirits. I mean I tried to argue lower but time was a thing. And the heir was facing a giant scorpion. |
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| Hymn of Ragnarok | Feb 8 2013, 03:08 PM Post #423 |
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[X] "You will take no body born from my womb. If it is a boon you desire, I would entertain the thought of arranging another person to have a binding similar to what we share. You will not speak to or tempt them. You will not grant further bargains. But you will have another mortal lifetime with which to gain more power." [X] "No, this is not the promise of another body. This is the promise to look for a suitable candidate. You will have only a chance to gain another binding and continue to regain power. But then, that is what you offer to give Zuko, is it not? A better chance. When you give your power to me, a portion will be denied to you. By giving the portion to Zuko, you may have a chance to further recoup your loses instead of losing it without recompense." [X] "Here is what I offer: I will allow you to offer your binding to one person, and you shall have only one attempt. This person must be someone I approve of and I must consent to put forth your offer. If I find the person unsuitable, you must find another. If I find them suitable, I will make the offer at an appropriate time. If they refuse, your have lost your chance. If they consent, you gain another binding and chance to grow stronger. But you will not seek another binding, or body to possess." [X] "Chance for Chance. What say you?" |
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| Megaolix | Feb 8 2013, 03:09 PM Post #424 |
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Not like I have anything better in mind. Sure. [X] "You will take no body born from my womb. If it is a boon you desire, I would entertain the thought of arranging another person to have a binding similar to what we share. You will not speak to or tempt them. You will not grant further bargains. But you will have another mortal lifetime with which to gain more power." [X] "No, this is not the promise of another body. This is the promise to look for a suitable candidate. You will have only a chance to gain another binding and continue to regain power. But then, that is what you offer to give Zuko, is it not? A better chance. When you give your power to me, a portion will be denied to you. By giving the portion to Zuko, you may have a chance to further recoup your loses instead of losing it without recompense." [X] "Here is what I offer: I will allow you to offer your binding to one person, and you shall have only one attempt. This person must be someone I approve of and I must consent to put forth your offer. If I find the person unsuitable, you must find another. If I find them suitable, I will make the offer at an appropriate time. If they refuse, your have lost your chance. If they consent, you gain another binding and chance to grow stronger. But you will not seek another binding, or body to possess." [X] "Chance for Chance. What say you?" |
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| Redon | Feb 8 2013, 03:11 PM Post #425 |
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the baka nerbie
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Remember what Iroh said, He wouldn't have taken the deal to save his father, the sages won't give a rats ass about it. |
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| Larekko12 | Feb 8 2013, 03:11 PM Post #426 |
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That's a really really really weak deal. She's taking garuntee'd loss she doesn't need to to significantly boost Zuko's chances at survival from Dismal to pretty damn good. Where we'd be offering her something we have not right or claim to. The chance that she can find some idiot to piggy back on that would except. And here's the important part and we're not putting the people we no know would accept on this deal for part times shifting like say Ty lee. Your giving her nothing effectively cause the chance any one in the know will accept are stupid slim unless we find someone suicidal. |
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| NSMS | Feb 8 2013, 03:11 PM Post #427 |
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Sounds good. Possibly a bit wordy- we'll get interrupted less than halfway into that most likely- but a good starting counteroffer. Edit: To Larekko- this is our STARTING offer to her. Not the final deal we're going to make with her. Edited by NSMS, Feb 8 2013, 03:12 PM.
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| Hymn of Ragnarok | Feb 8 2013, 03:13 PM Post #428 |
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No, she's losing part of her power to boost us and her chances of survival. She will permanently lose part of herself this way, but she'll do it just for us. She's making an offer to dump the excess with Zuko in exchange for a favor. It gives him a better chance, nothing more. This is her chance to get something instead of nothing. She just needs to choose her moment carefully. I think we can get her to accept. If not, certainly get her to haggle up from this instead of down from our child. Edited by Hymn of Ragnarok, Feb 8 2013, 03:14 PM.
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| Larekko12 | Feb 8 2013, 03:14 PM Post #429 |
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And Chibi himself said the situations are different. We both up and die in this? Shit is Going to Hell. Civil War Springs up. Fire nations rips itself apart at the seems. Zuko dies in this? With Spirits being the tagline reason? With the only witnesses all having reason to lie in our favor? Assasinations. Civil War Shit goes to hell. |
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| Earth-Destroyer | Feb 8 2013, 03:19 PM Post #430 |
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No Larekko the civil war was only an issue, because the spirits had spent decades preparing for a chance. Like an unclear line of succession of take advantage of. |
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| Redon | Feb 8 2013, 03:20 PM Post #431 |
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the baka nerbie
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I'm pretty sure the giant spirit was seen by more then a handful of people. |
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| Larekko12 | Feb 8 2013, 03:24 PM Post #432 |
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Um No she's not. In deal one we ingest her. It hurts like a bitch we get up the mountain get mutated. Throw up she gets pretty much everything back if we don't faff around like a bitch due to contract. We and her survive. Cool Bean. Zuko likely get maimed killed or possessed cause he's not sepiroth the second coming. She helps Zuko's she's taking a hard loss plain and simple and needs compensation and we'd demand no less in her postion. The excess power that would mutate us goes to him and she can't get that back. Your counter offer is even more ridiculous then hers cause it offers nothing and I mean nothing concrete and offers things you have not right to give. The closest thing you can say is that we can't offer zuko's essence for the body or summthin' in hers. an ancestral contract no body is a better counter position. Or just leveling restrictions to propriety on the body and putting it a ways down the lines. \ Or promising to Play Infernal Fire God Every Sunday to speed up her recovery. Or hell making a lease on loan for massive no compromising hyper indulgence. That's damped for now but one of us turning up unaccountably dead and reignite that. Or the Line of Succesion just disappearing entirely. Edited by Larekko12, Feb 8 2013, 03:26 PM.
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| Hymn of Ragnarok | Feb 8 2013, 03:26 PM Post #433 |
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Larekko, you are trying to give her way too fucking much. She's willing to let us eat her. She's also willing to let us take her power. These things, she'll do for free and is willing. Giving power to Zuko if we go with option 2 is the only thing she's putting a price tag on. So if we push option two as the only one we're willing to accept, and push her to accept SOMETHING instead of NOTHING, for the sakes of both of our survival? She can be coerced. |
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| Redon | Feb 8 2013, 03:27 PM Post #434 |
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the baka nerbie
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Zuko has the chains of destiny going for him, he's not going to die for no reason since they aren't fulfilled yet. |
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| NSMS | Feb 8 2013, 03:27 PM Post #435 |
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Hence why the chance at a contract is our FIRST counteroffer i.e. it's deliberately low in order to force her to negotiate up from our offer, not us negotiate down from hers. And if she goes for it, then hey, so much the better. |
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| Redon | Feb 8 2013, 03:36 PM Post #436 |
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the baka nerbie
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The sunday thing is a horrible idea, all it takes is missing one for complete body jacking to commence. |
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| HioH | Feb 8 2013, 03:42 PM Post #437 |
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[X] "You will take no body born from my womb. If it is a boon you desire, I would entertain the thought of arranging another person to have a binding similar to what we share. You will not speak to or tempt them. You will not grant further bargains. But you will have another mortal lifetime with which to gain more power." [X] "No, this is not the promise of another body. This is the promise to look for a suitable candidate. You will have only a chance to gain another binding and continue to regain power. But then, that is what you offer to give Zuko, is it not? A better chance. When you give your power to me, a portion will be denied to you. By giving the portion to Zuko, you may have a chance to further recoup your loses instead of losing it without recompense." [X] "Here is what I offer: I will allow you to offer your binding to one person, and you shall have only one attempt. This person must be someone I approve of and I must consent to put forth your offer. If I find the person unsuitable, you must find another. If I find them suitable, I will make the offer at an appropriate time. If they refuse, your have lost your chance. If they consent, you gain another binding and chance to grow stronger. But you will not seek another binding, or body to possess." [X] "Chance for Chance. What say you?" this seems like a good start |
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| Guile | Feb 8 2013, 03:48 PM Post #438 |
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Azula hates destiny. And it's a hell of a thing to stake a life on when we CAN help. |
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| Liam-don | Feb 8 2013, 03:56 PM Post #439 |
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You're pushing it. Yes, Destiny is a thing. But it's not some unstoppable force that can railroads events to always get its ways, otherwise we'd be fucked and would have gone down the path of canon!Azula already. Destiny can pull strings from behind the scene to tip events in a certain direction but it's not a foolproof plot shield. There's no garantee Zuko will live. |
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| NSMS | Feb 8 2013, 03:56 PM Post #440 |
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Also, given how far Zuko has strayed off the path that destiny wants him to follow the benefits he gets from it are probably diminishing steadily and becoming less reliable. Edited by NSMS, Feb 8 2013, 03:57 PM.
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| Redon | Feb 8 2013, 04:08 PM Post #441 |
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He's still not just going to up and die for no good reason though, if what you guys were saying was true, Toph would already be out of the picture. Since there's no way she'd be against us unless we pulled a 180 at this point.
Edited by Redon, Feb 8 2013, 04:09 PM.
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| Aranfan | Feb 8 2013, 04:12 PM Post #442 |
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[X] "You will take no body born from my womb. If it is a boon you desire, I would entertain the thought of arranging another person to have a binding similar to what we share. You will not speak to or tempt them. You will not grant further bargains. But you will have another mortal lifetime with which to gain more power." [X] "No, this is not the promise of another body. This is the promise to look for a suitable candidate. You will have only a chance to gain another binding and continue to regain power. But then, that is what you offer to give Zuko, is it not? A better chance. When you give your power to me, a portion will be denied to you. By giving the portion to Zuko, you may have a chance to further recoup your loses instead of losing it without recompense." [X] "Here is what I offer: I will allow you to offer your binding to one person, and you shall have only one attempt. This person must be someone I approve of and I must consent to put forth your offer. If I find the person unsuitable, you must find another. If I find them suitable, I will make the offer at an appropriate time. If they refuse, your have lost your chance. If they consent, you gain another binding and chance to grow stronger. But you will not seek another binding, or body to possess." [X] "Chance for Chance. What say you?" |
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| Larekko12 | Feb 8 2013, 04:13 PM Post #443 |
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Hymn. Your giving her nothing. All you're doing is saying that you'll lift the restrictions on her dealing with others then look for someone who'll let her piggy back or take her body. That's nothing. We can't deal on the presumption of giving her something that's not ours to give. We also aren't willing to deal on the presumption that we'll offer those we can coerce to take the deal. Your trying to reduce her postion to nothing in a frankly stupid manner. Sure I understand the art of haggling down. But if her price is ten thousand dollars you're saying I'll give you chance the chance to get say 1000 and you have no right to promise on the assumption of other. Trying to say she's just giving for zuko is ignoring that she's giving cold hard cash and pain for him to survive. The gap is too huge and it's just gonna poison things. |
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| NSMS | Feb 8 2013, 04:14 PM Post #444 |
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All I'm saying is that his plot armour is either weakening or gone. He's not going to suddenly drop dead for no reason, but at the same time he isn't necessarily going to miraculously win or survive fights he shouldn't any more. As for Toph, the only fights she's been in since we picked her up have been ones where her opponent(s) were massively outclassed. |
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| thisisinsane | Feb 8 2013, 04:16 PM Post #445 |
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[X] "You will take no body born from my womb. If it is a boon you desire, I would entertain the thought of arranging another person to have a binding similar to what we share. You will not speak to or tempt them. You will not grant further bargains. But you will have another mortal lifetime with which to gain more power." [X] "No, this is not the promise of another body. This is the promise to look for a suitable candidate. You will have only a chance to gain another binding and continue to regain power. But then, that is what you offer to give Zuko, is it not? A better chance. When you give your power to me, a portion will be denied to you. By giving the portion to Zuko, you may have a chance to further recoup your loses instead of losing it without recompense." [X] "Here is what I offer: I will allow you to offer your binding to one person, and you shall have only one attempt. This person must be someone I approve of and I must consent to put forth your offer. If I find the person unsuitable, you must find another. If I find them suitable, I will make the offer at an appropriate time. If they refuse, your have lost your chance. If they consent, you gain another binding and chance to grow stronger. But you will not seek another binding, or body to possess." [X] "Chance for Chance. What say you?" Better than my plan or any other I've seen so far. |
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| Larekko12 | Feb 8 2013, 04:16 PM Post #446 |
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He's still not gonna up and die for no good reason? HE'S FIGHTING A GIANT FUCKING SCORPION IN THE SPIRIT WORLD WITH A LEGION OF MORE OF THEM AT HIS BACK YOU RETARD! That's more than amble enough reason for him to die in here. Ya know just like it would have been more than enough reason for us to have died to hama for making a bad decision or not brining ty lee and just going with zuko. |
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| HighMongrel | Feb 8 2013, 04:17 PM Post #447 |
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You know, I'm tempted to... you know what may as well, doesn't look like it's gonna win though it would be interesting to say the least. [x] Eat the fairy |
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| Adam Kardamon | Feb 8 2013, 04:24 PM Post #448 |
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He has no fire bending.................. Dude. fighting Giant scorpion spirits with a sword. He has no AOE. We have to help him. we have to [x] EAT NAVI! |
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| Hymn of Ragnarok | Feb 8 2013, 04:27 PM Post #449 |
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We have to choose the option that gives Zuko no help at all? |
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| NSMS | Feb 8 2013, 04:28 PM Post #450 |
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Newbie
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That would not help him. Also, she probably tastes nasty. |
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6:47 PM Jul 10