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Season 38 - Week 4 - Joe & Mack Returns (MAME); rom joemacr
Topic Started: 3 May 2015, 10:59 AM (429 Views)
zaphod79
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Like 69, but bigger
Week 4 brings us Macias's dinosaur themed nomination of Joe & Mac Returns (MAME)

Klov page : http://www.arcade-museum.com/game_detail.php?game_id=8236

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Flyer : http://flyers.arcade-museum.com/?page=flyer&db=videodb&id=2872&image=1

Scores to be in by 12:00 (Noon UK time) on Sunday the 10th of May

Final Scores:

1) 892230 - Dumple = 100.00 points
2) 388450 - Macias = 68.20 points
3) 345120 - Sputryk = 62.20 points
4) 280830 - DaLar = 55.02 points
5) 186960 - Jakuchu = 46.19 points
6) 171430 - Alexander_Had = 41.75 points
7) 116700 - a.j.green = 35.11 points
8) 101720 - deadpan666 = 30.70 points
9) 101700 - zaphod79 = 27.13 points
10) 87620 - Ralph Wiggum = 22.77 points
11) 85250 - necronom = 19.06 points
12) 54780 - paranoid marvin = 13.78 points
13) 600 - Misery = 7.18 points
14) 500 - HOW = 3.60 points
Edited by necronom, 10 May 2015, 11:30 AM.
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Macias

Great. This is almost as good in my opinion as Diet Go Go, which we played in season 33. I hope you guys enjoy it too. I'll surely put a lot of time into this.

83,100
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Misery
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600

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Yes, I know it's not a scoreboard shot, but I doubt it matters. Just a token score.

Definitely skipping this one.

Too random in a similar way to Bubble Bobble. I quickly found myself exiting and restarting if something like the big club, capable of knocking out but not killing multiple foes at once, did not *immediately* appear, as that appears to be the entire key to scoring well from what I can tell..... there doesnt appear to be a point to going forward if it doesnt show right away, as that's just going forward with an immediate disadvantage.

Never been at all fond of randomness in score-focused gaming. And not really the sort of gameplay I'd get into anyway. Maybe next week.
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Jakuchu

122,540
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Macias

Misery
 
I quickly found myself exiting and restarting if something like the big club, capable of knocking out but not killing multiple foes at once, did not *immediately* appear, as that appears to be the entire key to scoring well from what I can tell..... there doesnt appear to be a point to going forward if it doesnt show right away, as that's just going forward with an immediate disadvantage.


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100% guaranteed.

Here's a good replay showing all spots you need to hit for extra stages, bonus lives and other secrets.
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deadpan666
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61,600

Fun little game! :)
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Sputryk
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127,400

For more frustrating than Diet. Not sure whether I like it more than an average game.

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Dumple
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138260

I like it! Will probably play a lot of this one.
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Misery
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Macias
3 May 2015, 04:52 PM
Misery
 
I quickly found myself exiting and restarting if something like the big club, capable of knocking out but not killing multiple foes at once, did not *immediately* appear, as that appears to be the entire key to scoring well from what I can tell..... there doesnt appear to be a point to going forward if it doesnt show right away, as that's just going forward with an immediate disadvantage.


Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted ImagePosted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image

100% guaranteed.

Here's a good replay showing all spots you need to hit for extra stages, bonus lives and other secrets.
Nah, as far as I'm concerned that's just as bad, or possibly even worse.

A good example of why I dont like memory-focused design is shmup bosses. In a well designed one, even if you havent seen the boss before, you can analyze it's attacks as they come at you, and react and figure out a way to dodge; you can beat the boss without dying the FIRST time you encounter it due to pure skill in the genre as a whole. But then there's the other sort, the kind that fires a pattern where the only way to dodge it is to remember some special trick. This is not skill based: It's impossible to dodge when you initially encounter it because you have not already fought it enough to figure out the spot you're supposed to magically know to move to (and figuring it out is usually simply random chance, by trying random things each time), or the specific action that has to be taken to dodge it. Your skill in the genre matters not one bit going into that fight for the first time, because you simply wont know what it is. Making it even stupider, something like that is actually usually very EASY once you DO learn it; it ends up adding nothing at all to the gameplay as a whole. I've always found that sort of design to be very tedious.

It's also why I dislike things like Dodonpachi Daioujou; the scoring in that is *entirely* memory based. There is one proper movement path to take through each stage for a good score, and if you forget even a small part of it, your skill at dodging and defeating enemies and stuff like that matters not: your score falls apart completely regardless.

I know it's fairly common in games from that era that this week's game is from, but still. I'd rather just avoid it.
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Macias

Misery
 
A good example of why I dont like memory-focused design is shmup bosses. In a well designed one, even if you havent seen the boss before, you can analyze it's attacks as they come at you, and react and figure out a way to dodge; you can beat the boss without dying the FIRST time you encounter it due to pure skill in the genre as a whole. But then there's the other sort, the kind that fires a pattern where the only way to dodge it is to remember some special trick. This is not skill based: It's impossible to dodge when you initially encounter it because you have not already fought it enough to figure out the spot you're supposed to magically know to move to (and figuring it out is usually simply random chance, by trying random things each time), or the specific action that has to be taken to dodge it. Your skill in the genre matters not one bit going into that fight for the first time, because you simply wont know what it is.

I can understand that sentiment, but for some reason most of my favourite shmups are either Psikyo games (which could be synonymous with what you described here) or have a lot of secrets, including hidden, obscure scoring systems (Raiden Fighters, Battle Bakraid, Armed Police Batrider). (Oh, and I also played roguelikes exclusively for a few years before my current shmupping period, that could explain a lot)

Games like these can also be a lot of fun when played purely for survival, while completely ignoring the scoring aspect. That's the only way I can play Bakraid for example and I still think it's a great game.

But I agree that they aren't perhaps the best choice for a highscore competition, where we only have one week to learn the game, and our time is more or less limited during this week. As many of the people involved might have never played a particular game, they could find it very hard to compete against someone who knows it well. But if we could only choose simple, basic stuff that can be learned in a couple of minutes, that would limit our choice greatly and would ultimately lead to a less interesting competition (although that's debatable of course).

For the record: I had no idea there are so many hidden items in Joe & Mac Returns prior to nominating it. I only played it a couple of times before this round of Retro League started. That being said, had I known about it, I'd have nominated the game regardless ;)

222,010
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Sputryk
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151,410

Failing to score well on most screens.

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Edited by Sputryk, 5 May 2015, 10:20 PM.
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Sputryk
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166,540

Some serious points going begging, given Macs' score on a far lower level than I have reached.

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Macias

Sputryk
 
Some serious points going begging, given Macs' score on a far lower level than I have reached.

Are you starting at jungle/night too? Mammoth was the third boss for me. I think I got 3 hidden extra stages - each worth around 20,000. Other than that, bagging more than 1 enemy generates more points items. I try to bag 3 enemies each time.

Having a quick look at that 1,8 million points replay, I'm missing a lot of points too, 150,000 already on the third boss.
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Sputryk
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190,660

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Dumple
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160100

A minor improvement. Tried continuing (credit feeding) to play through to the end:
38 deaths first attempt
22 deaths second attempt
20 deaths third attempt
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Edited by Dumple, 8 May 2015, 03:43 AM.
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Dumple
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410540

The replay was a huge help - I picked up three extra lives along the way.

Extra life cheat sheet:
- Start on the bottom left stage (moonlit night).
- Roll a bag past the right point to reveal a "Big EX" club, then grab that club to warp to the extra stage (you're invincible after grabbing the club, so you can land in fire after grabbing it)
- 1-2: EX just above the fire; 1up is on the first platform up
- 2-5: EX just below the top horizontal platform; 1up is on the topmost short platform
- 3-7: EX just below the top horizontal platform (floating in midair); 1up is at top left
- 4-8: EX at top of screen just to the right of the second vertical wall; 1up at bottom center
- 6-4: EX is just below the bent platform at top right; 1up is on the 1st platform.
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Edited by Dumple, 8 May 2015, 04:23 AM.
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a.j.green
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Its not easy...
116700

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I was assuming that we had to play the levels in order.
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Sputryk
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206,780

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necronom
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Para(lytic)Droid
72,750

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Macias

a.j.green
 
I was assuming that we had to play the levels in order.

But what does that mean A.J.? Like in Diet Go Go we're given the option to choose the starting stage freely. The fact that when the map screen shows up the cursor always points at one of these starting stages doesn't mean that it's the only "correct" choice, does it?

247,240
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paranoid marvin

54780

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Dumple
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892230

A one-credit clear (just barely!) Almost lost my last life to the "Hurry up!" ghost on the last boss.
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Alexander_Had
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171430

This is quite easy but rather boring - thought I'd play a couple of games for a token score and ended up with that. Don't think I'm inclined to give it another go though - I don't dislike the whole Bubble Bobble/Snow Bros. concept but something in this one doesn't gel for me
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zaphod79
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Like 69, but bigger
88050

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Ralph Wiggum
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87,620
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Macias

Congratulations on another 1cc, Dumple!

352,340
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HOW
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500

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Sputryk
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345,120

Dawdling cost me dearly. Bah!

[edit] And it's a double Bah! as I have outdistanced Mac and scored less! ><

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Edited by Sputryk, 9 May 2015, 10:38 PM.
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deadpan666
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101,720

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necronom
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Para(lytic)Droid
85,250

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Macias

388,450
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DaLar
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280,830
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zaphod79
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Like 69, but bigger
101700
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Jakuchu

186,960
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