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Nolan Bushnell talks about Showbiz Pizza Place
Topic Started: Feb 3 2015, 02:51 AM (1,636 Views)
PaulKTF
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I wanted to post this without comment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dq_V0Vh2tN4
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CECshows
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"The gorilla and those guys died, and we buried them. And Chuck E. Cheese reigns supreme - as he should."

Wow... :ermm:
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80sgirl
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Electroidal Animal Doctor
I'm not a big fan of Nolan Bushnell as a person, but I can't really blame him for being angry about the whole deal. David Brock and Aaron Fechter really did screw him over on the whole aborted franchising deal. I can also see why he would be glad Chuck ultimately won out, since Chuck was his baby for a long time before the idea even got off the ground.

Though I do notice he skipped over his own part in the financial problems and bankruptcy that caused the merger. Which is pretty typical for him.
Edited by 80sgirl, Feb 3 2015, 03:27 AM.
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PaulKTF
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I understand why Bob Brock went with CEI once he saw their animatronics- I mean, they were obviously so much better than the cheaper PTT ones. I know I would've made the same decision and probably taken the same (legal) gamble he did.

I notice Nolan kind of glosses over the fact that Showbiz was only able to merge with PTT because they went bankrupt...

I like how he uses the royal "we" as in "We buried Showbiz" when he was long gone from the company by the time that happened.
Edited by PaulKTF, Feb 3 2015, 03:27 AM.
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Cyberhawk
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PaulKTF
Feb 3 2015, 03:26 AM
I understand why Bob Brock went with CEI once he saw their animatronics- I mean, they were obviously so much better than the cheaper PTT ones. I know I would've made the same decision and probably taken the same (legal) gamble he did.

I notice Nolan kind of glosses over the fact that Showbiz was only able to merge with PTT because they went bankrupt...

I like how he uses the royal "we" as in "We buried Showbiz" when he was long gone from the company by the time that happened.


the ptt characters where his vision and he helped create them they continued on while the rock afire explosion and showbiz pizza faded into obscurity
Edited by Cyberhawk, Feb 3 2015, 03:47 AM.
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PaulKTF
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Js96er
Feb 3 2015, 03:46 AM
PaulKTF
Feb 3 2015, 03:26 AM
I understand why Bob Brock went with CEI once he saw their animatronics- I mean, they were obviously so much better than the cheaper PTT ones. I know I would've made the same decision and probably taken the same (legal) gamble he did.

I notice Nolan kind of glosses over the fact that Showbiz was only able to merge with PTT because they went bankrupt...

I like how he uses the royal "we" as in "We buried Showbiz" when he was long gone from the company by the time that happened.


the ptt characters where his vision and he helped create them they continued on while the rock afire explosion and showbiz pizza faded into obscurity
Yeah, but PTT (Nolan's company) went bankrupt. Remember that it's Showbiz that survived. They just decided to not keep using the RAE because they didn't own the characters (which makes sense).
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80sgirl
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Electroidal Animal Doctor
Yeah, Bushnell is an ass who likes to take credit for other peoples' accomplishments. He did that even when he was at Atari. For me, it's one of those deals where I have to accept I like the creation but dislike the creator. Like I said, not a fan of him as a person but I can't really blame him for being angry about the whole franchising deal.

Apparently Brock tried to get Aaron to work with PTT before breaking it off, but Aaron had met Bushnell in the past and decided he didn't want to work with him. Probably because of Bushnell being an ass, though I've heard Aaron can be a pretty big pain in the butt himself if you get on his bad side. Most likely they rubbed each other the wrong way.

I guess it's just one of those pivotal decision points that could have resulted in a much different outcome. There seem to be a lot of those in the company's history.

It's interesting to think about what could have happened if CEI had ended up working with PTT, or Brock hadn't signed the franchise agreement, or if CEI had agreed to take on designing the full-body CEC bots after the merger.
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PaulKTF
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There's even an article in the first Pizza Times about Brock becoming a franchisee:

http://www.showbizpizza.com/info/documents/ptt/ptt_pizzatimes-1979.pdf

Ah, what might have been...

We're kind of lucky that CEC exists at all at this point, aren't we?
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80sgirl
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Electroidal Animal Doctor
Indeed.

Looking back on things, it was probably inevitable that they went with CEC as soon as Aaron refused to sign over rights to the characters. Eventually the company would have wanted to go in a different direction and without creative control they would have had to butt heads with him. How do you think he'd react to them wanting to de-age the RAE characters and stick them in skater gear?

Then there is the fact that Aaron was apparently pretty opposed to the idea of working on CEC characters or having them share the stage with the RAE. Since he wouldn't sign them over the company's choices to running under one brand were limited to either 1.) keeping the RAE and dumping the CEC characters entirely and maybe having problems with CEI in the future, or 2.) going with Chuck and doing whatever the heck they wanted. Pretty obvious choice for a business.

At least the way things ended up the RAE remained pretty much unchanged. Which probably wouldn't have been the case if the company had decided to keep them around. So even if things didn't work out for the best for all the fans, at least they didn't end up a lot worse.

Besides, if they had gone with the RAE we never would have gotten Tux Chuck. And Tux Chuck is awesome.
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RetroGirl
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I don't have time to watch this right now, but Bushnell always struck me as a bit difficult. However, I don't think there are heroes and villains in this story. It all just comes down to business choices. Brock saw the handwriting on the wall. With a better animatronic show out there, someone was going to grab it and go into competition with PTT. I guess he thought it might as well be him. He made Aaron a better offer than Bushnell did.

When CEC went bankrupt and Showbiz bought them out, that was just business, as well.

A lot of people fault Aaron for not giving CEC the full rights to the RAE. But, in his defense, it's hard to turn loose of something you've poured your creative self into. Plus, he felt there were continued possibilities for the show and the characters. Those didn't pan out but you can't blame him for wanting to continue trying. Not to mention the fact that, according to Aaron, they weren't going to pay him for the rights. No one does that. You might as well keep them and see what you can do with them. However, you also can't blame Showbiz for deciding to go with Chuck and company, which they already owned outright.

In the end, I don't think the RAE could have survived the changes Chuck has. They were always skewed to an older audience, and the continued emphasis on younger kids and parties would have eventually watered them down until they were unrecognizable. So, while Nolan might consider it a victory that the RAE was booted, I'm not sure it really was. They're better off living on in YouTube videos.
Edited by RetroGirl, Feb 3 2015, 12:42 PM.
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Mario555227
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Well that was .........uhhh.......................ummmmm informative
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80sgirl
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Electroidal Animal Doctor
I don't see how people can fault Aaron for not signing over full rights to the RAE characters. I don't blame him for wanting to keep them, especially since they weren't going to pay him anything. Not only was there nothing in it for him, after they had creative control there would be no reason to keep using CEI if they found another company to do the fabrication work. So yeah, that was probably the best decision.

But from what I've heard, the relationship between Aaron and the other ShowBiz executives besides Brock was strained from the beginning. Aaron likes to cast himself as the victim, but apparently he was difficult to work with and acted less than professionally in his dealings with them. As a result he made a lot of enemies within the company. When Brock left, they started thinking about ways to break away from CEI almost immediately. You can see evidence of this in the planning documents they made around 1986 where they talk about various retrofit concepts. They probably would have started something like CU much sooner if they could but had to wait until the company was in better financial shape.

I know some people here look up to Aaron and some know him personally and probably want to defend him. I've heard he can be a really nice guy as long as you agree with him. But you don't have to look hard to find solid evidence of how he acts toward people who don't agree with him. Ultimately, I have to take Aaron much the same way as I do Bushnell. I like the creation, but not the creator. I guess this means I won't be invited to the CEI warehouse anytime soon. ;)

I doubt the company could have survived if they hadn't decided to focus on the younger audience and parties. I agree the RAE was intended to appeal to older kids and teenagers, and unfortunately that audience shrank drastically after the mid-90s. The arcade game market has been on life support for almost 20 years. Most teenagers just don't go to arcades to play video games anymore. They stay home and play on their consoles and PCs. It's sad, but that's how it is.
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PaulKTF
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There are a lot of people who ere involved in the creation of the RAE that you never hear about who put a lot of work into it (ditto the PTT concept on that side).
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The Chuck E. Cheese Life
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Follow Me On Instagram: @the_chuck_e_cheese_life
80sgirl
Feb 3 2015, 05:51 AM
Indeed.

Looking back on things, it was probably inevitable that they went with CEC as soon as Aaron refused to sign over rights to the characters. Eventually the company would have wanted to go in a different direction and without creative control they would have had to butt heads with him. How do you think he'd react to them wanting to de-age the RAE characters and stick them in skater gear?

Then there is the fact that Aaron was apparently pretty opposed to the idea of working on CEC characters or having them share the stage with the RAE. Since he wouldn't sign them over the company's choices to running under one brand were limited to either 1.) keeping the RAE and dumping the CEC characters entirely and maybe having problems with CEI in the future, or 2.) going with Chuck and doing whatever the heck they wanted. Pretty obvious choice for a business.

At least the way things ended up the RAE remained pretty much unchanged. Which probably wouldn't have been the case if the company had decided to keep them around. So even if things didn't work out for the best for all the fans, at least they didn't end up a lot worse.

Besides, if they had gone with the RAE we never would have gotten Tux Chuck. And Tux Chuck is awesome.
They could have gone with tux billy bob!!!
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PaulKTF
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CEC and RAE Fan
Feb 4 2015, 07:15 PM
80sgirl
Feb 3 2015, 05:51 AM
Indeed.

Looking back on things, it was probably inevitable that they went with CEC as soon as Aaron refused to sign over rights to the characters. Eventually the company would have wanted to go in a different direction and without creative control they would have had to butt heads with him. How do you think he'd react to them wanting to de-age the RAE characters and stick them in skater gear?

Then there is the fact that Aaron was apparently pretty opposed to the idea of working on CEC characters or having them share the stage with the RAE. Since he wouldn't sign them over the company's choices to running under one brand were limited to either 1.) keeping the RAE and dumping the CEC characters entirely and maybe having problems with CEI in the future, or 2.) going with Chuck and doing whatever the heck they wanted. Pretty obvious choice for a business.

At least the way things ended up the RAE remained pretty much unchanged. Which probably wouldn't have been the case if the company had decided to keep them around. So even if things didn't work out for the best for all the fans, at least they didn't end up a lot worse.

Besides, if they had gone with the RAE we never would have gotten Tux Chuck. And Tux Chuck is awesome.
They could have gone with tux billy bob!!!
Is this close enough? :)

Posted Image
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Cyberhawk
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80sgirl
Feb 3 2015, 06:11 PM
I don't see how people can fault Aaron for not signing over full rights to the RAE characters. I don't blame him for wanting to keep them, especially since they weren't going to pay him anything. Not only was there nothing in it for him, after they had creative control there would be no reason to keep using CEI if they found another company to do the fabrication work. So yeah, that was probably the best decision.

But from what I've heard, the relationship between Aaron and the other ShowBiz executives besides Brock was strained from the beginning. Aaron likes to cast himself as the victim, but apparently he was difficult to work with and acted less than professionally in his dealings with them. As a result he made a lot of enemies within the company. When Brock left, they started thinking about ways to break away from CEI almost immediately. You can see evidence of this in the planning documents they made around 1986 where they talk about various retrofit concepts. They probably would have started something like CU much sooner if they could but had to wait until the company was in better financial shape.

I know some people here look up to Aaron and some know him personally and probably want to defend him. I've heard he can be a really nice guy as long as you agree with him. But you don't have to look hard to find solid evidence of how he acts toward people who don't agree with him. Ultimately, I have to take Aaron much the same way as I do Bushnell. I like the creation, but not the creator. I guess this means I won't be invited to the CEI warehouse anytime soon. ;)

I doubt the company could have survived if they hadn't decided to focus on the younger audience and parties. I agree the RAE was intended to appeal to older kids and teenagers, and unfortunately that audience shrank drastically after the mid-90s. The arcade game market has been on life support for almost 20 years. Most teenagers just don't go to arcades to play video games anymore. They stay home and play on their consoles and PCs. It's sad, but that's how it is.
if they had the rights to the RAE they would probably bear little resemblance to what they where in the 80s they would have probably unified the two concepts anyway due to being two expensive to produce two different shows
Edited by Cyberhawk, Feb 5 2015, 12:10 AM.
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