Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]


A Reyvateil's Melody

Ar tonelico fan site forums.

Add Reply
Questions About Writing: Backstories?; I can't stand them so of course I must overanalyze why
Topic Started: Jan 10 2014, 07:25 AM (473 Views)
ilutiern
so I'm actually looking for some discussion tonight. How do you feel about reading/watching backstory (events pre-main story)? (And if you have time) Why?

(you can skip this tl;dr thing here and just respond to ^ that question because this is just my rambling hahaaa)

Since I've started getting back into storymaking I've realized that I actually REALLY HATE reading separate backstories. Anything from the story world's history to a major character's past just doesn't interest me. Even if I adore the author and love the main story, pre-story stuff doesn't have any appeal (though it's probably written absolutely beautifully).

Seeing as how the stories aren't always presented/read chronologically I've been thinking about why stories from the past are so uninteresting (to me, at least) and how to... bring back the interest? I guess?

So in thinking about how to make backstory more palatable I've thought up some reasons why separate backstories turn me off like whoa because obviously, if you don't like something you should think about why you don't like it so you can take out those parts.

1. It's old news, we already know what happens and reading how it came to be feels like watching someone assemble a table from a box. (We've seen the parts and the end result; some people might like watching how the parts stack up into the table, but personally I don't feel the need)

2. None of the other characters we love are in there most of the time. (Lively character interaction is a high point for me, so if person Y is most loveable when swapping insults [or spit if we're talking romance] with person X I'm not exactly salivating at the prospect of reading Y's X-less past. Especially if Y is kind of boring the rest of the time)

3. If it's a character's personal backstory, chances are it will be extremely depressing and dark; even more so because I already know what's at the end of the tunnel. (Which is more depression until they meet person A, who either relieves it or puts them into even deeper misery)

4. If it's ancient history, like creation of the world stuff (or just... ten years ago stuff), I don't know any of those people and don't see why I should read about them if anything relevant about their lives will have been/be introduced in the main story. (When you advertise a story as the 'the events from [insert High Fantasy Historical Thing here]' it just screams history textbook instead of intriguing story with a plot so twisty it must do daily yoga)

5. There's not as much drama because all of the world-ending stuff happens in the main story. (Unless it is Ancient History, which has its own problems)

6. The characters still have problems at the end because their issues usually get resolved in the main story. (Though I guess the point of writing character backstory is to show how they end up with those problems in the first place, which could be interesting except see points 1 and 3)

7. The word "backstory" itself feels like "build-up", which is "teasing the reader with details and suspense so they will be blown away with the action in the beef of the story" but there is no beef in a story that is all build-up. (I'm sure there is actually a lot of beef in some backstories but when you read the word 'backstory' it sure doesn't feel like it)

So then there are some strategies I noticed made backstories super cool and emotional:

1. Don't make it seem like the stories are connected until they are. (And then when the reader realizes this you have a chance at getting 'OH MY GOD PERSON X IS ACTUALLY PERSON B FROM THAT OTHER STORY OH MY GOD I'M GOING TO CRY [I have actually reacted like this])
-I'd just finished reading 200 chapters of slow-building romance that ended with both characters dying (of old age after basically resetting the world from technology to nature) so when I started reading a new story set in nature (which at first seemed like it was set in the FAR PAST) I freaked out when the main character looked at his companion and got hit with memories from his past life (meaning it was actually THE FAR FUTURE) and his companion was actually his lover/soulmate the whole time IT WAS SO EMOTIONAL /fangirl sobs. And technically this means it was actually a sequel but the author did similar mid-story PLOT TWIST IT'S ACTUALLY CONNECTED with prequels to the 200 chapter monster so yup

2. In keeping with the above plot twist, make lots of plot twists. (Or: any lengthy 'backstories' should hold their weight as standalones in the sense that reading them will change your perspective of the world/characters/main story plot, not just be collections of details and character nuances surrounding a thin thread of relevant events [unless you're just writing fluff/drabbles for yourself or something]. It's really great if you can make the main story's details of the past as vague as possible so when you write the backstory you can go all THINGS ARE NOT AS THEY SEEM in it)

3. Use fresh eyes to view old characters. (We can see recurring characters in a completely new light from the backstory characters' eyes, so it could be interesting if they have a really different perspective from the main story protagonist)

And I'm sure there are other things that I haven't noticed (because the whole point of this is I DON'T READ BACKSTORIES HAHAHAHA) so if you want to share what you think makes reading backstories interesting please do *cries silent tears of defeat

This text wall. I feel like I should have gotten drunk first

Member Avatar
~(*´3`)~
Posted Image
Quote Post Goto Top Offline Profile
KiloTango
I think for me it is simply that if a prequel is going to be good, it just needs to be strong enough and have something to say even if you hadn't read the thing it is back story to. Like, just because you know how character A must end up, it doesn't mean that there won't be a bunch of new people to get invested in. Basically it needs to be treated with the same level of craft and care as the main thing, and then it'll be fine.

I guess really it is attitude: if you treat it as 'just backstory' then it's probably not going to shine (after all, there's a reason you didn't put it in the main story). But if you go at it as actual story with its own arcs and themes and twists and so on, it can be as good as normal story, because that's what it is.
Edited by KiloTango, Jan 10 2014, 09:13 AM.

Quote Post Goto Top Offline Profile
SoulSlayerAbad
I too, hate back stories. Especially if its a case like the Y without X example. I hate prequels that come out after their sequels. Of course, there are some exceptions, but yeah, generally the fact that I have already seen the character grow after overcoming so many obstacles, only to be taken to a time when he was still inexperienced irritates the hell out of me. I know that it's kinda ridiculous, but I can't help it.
Member Avatar
Knight of Elemia
Posted Image
Currently on hold.
Quote Post Goto Top Offline Profile
Osric
Well... I guess it depends a LOT on what the backstory is like... and how it is written.
First of all, let's keep in mind that writing a sequel OR prequel that isn't disappointing takes a VERY skilled story-teller... 'cause writing a story that stays together and is interesting takes a level of skill... and extending it - forward OR backwards - beyond its natural boundaries takes a different level of skill.
A sequel can be easier, as the future can hold many possibilities - even if most of them are usually too cheesy or cliched to be really acceptable - but a prequel... well, whatever you've written in the main story ties your hands when doing a prequel (UNLESS time travel is involved, of course) and that is what usually makes them be pretty... meh.

Then again, doing a proper backstory is not impossible... you just have to get the RIGHT kind of story and the RIGHT kind of character to do it.

One possibility is focusing on other characters, not the usual one of the main story... but it IS a risky bet as having the main character become just a cameo is likely a turn-off for the readers and fans, even if sometimes it can be played right ((What comes to mind as an example is Crisis Core in the FFVII compilation... the game is about Zack, not Cloud, but it does work as a story AND backstory.))
Having a story in which the past happenings are not very detailed can help... this is mostly the case of modern/urban settings. I mean, most times, when you have a setting that is VERY much like (or is) our world, you usually don't go giving long history lessons, and so you leave your ground for backstories open.
About the character... for those kind of stories, the characters of "series" of stories are the most exploitable... those that are meant to go on for an indefinite number of books/movies/stories and usually have a "static" personality... you know, characters like James Bond, or Hercule Poirot, or - to make a gaming example - Link or Adoll Christin, etc, etc... characters that appear in many, many stories but are, usually, always true to themselves. They don't go through drastic changes during their stories, their stories can be read/seen/played in almost any order without missing anything (there can be exceptions, but you get the gist of it) and therefore writing a prequel is easier with this kind of char.

Working with a younger, less experienced version of a well-known character is a very tricky thing... and is very hit-or-miss, unless the prequel was planned from the beginning, I guess.
And stories that put the character in a lot of danger are definitely toned down if they are a prequel... since you already know FOR SURE from the main story whether the character survives or not, and that does put a damper on the immersion in the story...

Okay, okay, I'm rambling here... so, the very central point of all this is: It takes a MASTER writer to pull off a prequel right.
Sorry for all the rambling. ;w;

Quote Post Goto Top Offline Profile
SoulSlayerAbad
Osric, nice explanation. I caught myself nodding subconsciously while reading it. :D
Member Avatar
Knight of Elemia
Posted Image
Currently on hold.
Quote Post Goto Top Offline Profile
Chaude
I would agree with Osric too. I would also add whether one has an appreciation for the 'awe' factor in understanding how each character that makes it into the main storyline had gone through. If not, then that person isn't on the same page as the author, even if the author had written and scripted to perfection. If the prologue or backstory makes the emotional and intellectual appeals to achieve that 'awe' factor, then it done right, as long as the reader understands the appreciation for such works.
Member Avatar
Knight
"May Thy Light Guide Thee and May Thy Darkness Protect Thee When Weary"

Story How-To and Tips In A Pouch (Z-ARM)

Posted Image

Posted Image
Posted Image
Quote Post Goto Top Offline Profile
KiloTango
I think the other thing with 'but I know how it ends! D:' is that doesn't always mean it isn't interesting. Moulin Rouge isn't any less sad for know who dies right from the start. And look at stuff like Baccano, which is told totally out of sequence and some of the fun comes in figuring out how the dots at joined up. Fate Zero is really solid about it as well, because it has its own other arcs to deal with.

There's a lot that can happen to a character to put them in threat other then them personally dying (you can always do horrible things to those they love and care about after all), and even when you know what's going to happen, the dramatic irony can make it even more heart breaking.

My favourite set of backstory is in the kids series The Deptford Mice's prequels, The Deptford Histories. They mostly focus on characters who don't get quite as much of a voice in the main story but the key thing is they tell really solid stories all by themselves and make you want to know what happened to the characters to turn them into the people they are at the start of the main series. (Also dear god do they make those characters suffer on the way to it. That series is just HORRIBLE sometimes XD).

That combo of 'how do they end up being THAT?!' and 'oh god this is all going to go wrong somehow isn't it' can be really engaging. But I guess I'm also thinking of prequels that focus on unfun times and complicated characters so that skews things a bit.
Edited by KiloTango, Jan 10 2014, 04:54 PM.

Quote Post Goto Top Offline Profile
ilutiern
whoa people responded to this not-drunken rambling so happy _( :'>_ L)_

KT
 
I guess really it is attitude: if you treat it as 'just backstory' then it's probably not going to shine (after all, there's a reason you didn't put it in the main story). But if you go at it as actual story with its own arcs and themes and twists and so on, it can be as good as normal story, because that's what it is.


Yup yup, completely agree. After reading some epic thing it's pretty disappointing to read something only half as good I suppose ;_;

SoulSlayerAbad
 
I hate prequels that come out after their sequels. Of course, there are some exceptions, but yeah, generally the fact that I have already seen the character grow after overcoming so many obstacles, only to be taken to a time when he was still inexperienced irritates the hell out of me.


FUN that's a great way to word it, and very true. The after-prequel thing is pretty annoying, yeah-- especially if it wasn't specifically planned that way.


@Osric Fefefefe got you into this, awesome.
Psshh ramble as much as you like, I love your rambles /shot
Pretty much agree with everything you said, especially about needing the right kind of story/character. There are some characters that will make people want to eat up everything they're in, and characters who... don't.

I guess this is obvious but it'd probably make for a really emotional ride if the character you write a backstory about ended up in some sort of tragedy in the 'main story', and the backstory makes it even more tragic "orz

And FUN LINK AS A SERIES CHARACTER that's super true; haven't really thought about it but he DOES have a static personality in a way /slapped

Speaking of time travel, that's an interesting possibility... but it's probably one of those things where you need to have planned out a lot of things from the start to pull off, otherwise it feels like you're just tossing it in for the heck of it. :unsure:
Member Avatar
~(*´3`)~
Posted Image
Quote Post Goto Top Offline Profile
ilutiern
You guys post too fast D: /shamelessly doubleposting

KT
 
I think the other thing with 'but I know how it ends! D:' is that doesn't always mean it isn't interesting.

That's true; it's pretty much what separates reading good prequels/backstories from ... not reading them haha /lame
If the process that happens in between getting the parts and reaching the end is interesting enough then yeah, it'll be a great read =w=
But if the author doesn't have the opportunity/make the effort to create those plots or those pulls, then the appeal falls flat, I think "orz

KT
 
They mostly focus on characters who don't get quite as much of a voice in the main story but the key thing is they tell really solid stories all by themselves and make you want to know what happened to the characters to turn them into the people they are at the start of the main series.

That actually sounds great ;__;
Hmm, giving spotlight to side characters is probably more attractive in terms of what you might want to read since you don't know them as well as you do the main characters, so there's still an element of mystery about them. That's a really great example, KT, and I'm glad you pointed that out because I wouldn't have thought of that by myself haha "orz

KT
 
That combo of 'how do they end up being THAT?!' and 'oh god this is all going to go wrong somehow isn't it' can be really engaging.

THAT SECOND THOUGHT. HAHA. HAHAHAHA. *cries in agony*
That... is actually a great thought that sort-of circumvents the third point of my 'oh god I really don't want to read this backstory' list, since it implies that you don't get slapped in the face by dark and depressing at the start of the story (even if you end up drowning in it at the end)
But it still ends up breaking your heart hahaha *crying
Member Avatar
~(*´3`)~
Posted Image
Quote Post Goto Top Offline Profile
Osric
Well, the time-travel thought came from a book that is indeed just backstory on a character, but is made very masterfully.
Which is Terry Pratchett's "Nightwatch" novel... while the point of the book is telling you about the earlier years of Sam Vimes' life, when he just became a policeman, rather than having it told as a flashback or just being a prequel, it goes with the "present-time" Sam Vimes being thrown in the past as an accident... so you have a book that is backstory, as well as a present story, that makes you see the earlier version of the character, compare it to the present version, shows you how the present one sees his earlier self and - this can be quite typical of time-travel thing - the present Vimes having to stir events to make sure that his past self survives and that things go as he remembers them.
So... while it technically IS backstory, it is far from set in stone, and that makes it very interesting.

KT's points are good. Knowing how it ends is not necessarily a bad thing... and, well, I did talk about Crisis Core up there and that's a story that, from the start, you know how is going to end, since the end with Zack's death is in the main story... but it is played right, and is enjoyable.

Even if none of them is exactly a "prequel" kind of story, nor a backstory, the 'already know how it ends' that I mean is... damn, it's hard to explain it... it's kinda like in most of Lovecraft's stories, I guess, where you know already that, no matter what horrors the character is running from, the monsters didn't get him 'cause he was alive enough to write the account of what happened... it's THAT kind of feeling that I find is a turn off... even if I doubt that was any good explanation of what I mean. OTL

Quote Post Goto Top Offline Profile
Palsa
Well, to be completely honest, I enjoy back stories, and much of my series' are made up of back stories. :^^;:
I also have one of those 'High Fantasy Historical Thing' series with biblical proportions. :^^;:

First, let me clarify that a back story and a prequel are not the same.
A prequel is a story that takes place before another, they can be totally unrelated; Atelier Iris 2 is a great example of an unrelated prequel.
A back story is a scene, event, chapter or spinoff that covers a portion of a character's life that is Usually Critical to understanding their personal development, and should add up to something important over time, and unless it is a total spinoff, it should happen before the story's conclusion, and not after.

Most games have back stories, the Ar tonelico series for an example has a ton, like when Lyner finds out that he knew Misha when he was young, or when it covers Jack's life in the Teru tribe; heck, much of the Cosmosphere can be considered as a back story, only being reenacted in a dream world.
Back stories add a certain depth to the main story, which if left by itself would be one or two dimensional, and if the entire story focuses on the now, and not how things came to be, then it would be pretty boring.
Does that mean back stories are good? Absolutely not!
But I've read very few good stories that lacked them.
What it comes down to is how well they are played out, what bits of information are shared and withheld, and at what time.
Personally, I feel that in most cases a back story is a lot like dive points in a Cosmosphere, in the sense that the reader should have an interest (progress) in the character before the event occurs.
What I'm saying is that the writer should try to build up enough interest in the reader, to the point that they are ready to know what that character has gone through.
One thing that often kills a series is when the author gets so rapped up in the continuation of a series, that they actually forget their own story; an example of this, is a lot of series that have crossed the 100 episodes mark, particularly Dragonball, which has flashbacks that conflict with earlier events in the story, so many times. . .
But there are a lot of great examples of positive back stories, like Grave of the Fireflies, which actually starts out with the main character's death, so the entire thing is a back story.
Another is the series Angel Beats, where the back stories are necessary for understanding the ending, and it would completely lack any emotional effect without them.
And though I didn't particularly like the series, the best parts of SKET Dance were the flashbacks, the rest of the series was killed by an overdose of irrational and irritating characters that were poorly developed, not to mention the constant filler episodes.
Member Avatar
General of Aurda
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image
Quote Post Goto Top Offline Profile
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
ZetaBoards - Free Forum Hosting
ZetaBoards gives you all the tools to create a successful discussion community.
Learn More · Sign-up Now
« Previous Topic · Silver Horn · Next Topic »
Add Reply

Ar tonelico series, characters, and artwork © 2006-2010 GUST CO., LTD. and NBGI

Skin orginally created by Tariq | Converted by Lewis of the ZetaBoard Theme Zone