| Carbocene; How could life be like 30 million years in the future after a K-T sized extinction (caused by man and atomic wars) . | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Oct 11 2013, 04:11 PM (1,006 Views) | |
| martiitram | Oct 11 2013, 04:11 PM Post #1 |
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-In the age of man the earth faced a mass extinction.Only small animals survived (in Africa and Falkland goats survived , in tasmania cassowarys and camels from the mainland survived). -There were 4 main groups which became big herbivores : hyrax , hedgehogs , rodents (only in South and North America including Greenland) and Armadillios (only in S.America). -I will tell you more about it later. |
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| martiitram | Oct 15 2013, 12:35 PM Post #2 |
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A list o what happens to the surviving animals: Mammals : Eutheria : Erinaceinae (Hedgehogs) Their numbers are quite high and since they're omnivores they'll have it easy to survive.They evolve an order of large herbivores , a family of large herbivorous hedgehogs which survives only in the Scandinavian island , a family of hedgehogs with longer legs and a elephant shrew like proboscis which have replaced pigs in Eurasia (juniorWoodchuck's idea from deviantART) and also some carnivores. Galericinae (Gymnures) Even thought mostly carnivorous their prey (arthropods and small animals)was abundant and they were able to survive.They evolved carnivores (which now survive only in islands and Africa , but a family of robust bearish animals.Soon after the extinction the competition from the North American carnivorous shrews made them evolve more omnivorous forms which would evolve an order of ungulates (similar to traguloids and protoceratids). Sorcidae (Shrews) Their diet allowed them to survive.Some forms in North America (2000 years after the extinction) started evolving carnivory and they soon spread to Eurasia , replacing the large , predatory gymnures and evolved a large order of carnivores (with forms similar to those of small miacids , hyaenodontids , fossas and others). Talpidae (Moles) They survived due to their insectivory and ability to burrow. Solenodontidae (Solenodons) They're already endangered and so , go extinct. Chiroptera (Bats) Only fruit bats went extinct , while the others thrived.The fruit bats were replaced by vesper bat descendants , but in Australia and western Antarctica where they're replaced by a suborder of flying marsupials.The bats evolved also a suborder of flightless forms in Antarctica (shrew-large badger sized). Camelidae (Camels and llamas) They survived only in Australia (where the extinction was smaller) and now survive with only a relic in Tasmania. Suina (Pigs and Peccaries) Peccaries survived in the Californian island and besides their common forms evolved also herbivores.Pigs survived in Africa , Tasmania , Philippines , Hawaii (large herbivores , mid sized herbivores and a few carnivores) and a relic in Chatham islands. Hippopotamidae (Hippos) Extinct. Cetacea (Whales and dolphins) Like the extinct marine reptiles they went extinct.The last one was a descendant of the tuxuci which lived in the Amazon 27 mya (3 million years in the future). Other artiodactyla (even-toed ungulates) Muntjacs survived in Britain (where they evolved herbivores and carnivores) and southeast Asia.Philippine mouse deer survived and evolved besides it's common forms a subfamily of deer like herbivores.The African river chevrotain survived and evolved a family of otter like animals in Africa. Equidae (horses and donkeys) Extinct. Rhinocerotidae (Rhinos) Extinct. Tapiridae (Tapirs) Extinct. Feliforma (Cats , civets , mongooses and hyenas) 2 species of gennets survived in the Eurafrican plateau.Some civets survived in madagascar.Surikates survived in Africa (evolved burrowing predators).Mongooses survived in Hawaii and Caribbean.The last cats live in the Falkland islands (1 small specie) , New Zealand (3 small species) , Britain (8 small and 3 large species) and Hawaii (2 small species). Pinnipedia (Sea lions and seals) Extinct. Canidae (Dogs , foxes and kind) Descendants of the grey fox survive in Falkland islands and California island. Ursidae (Bears) Too big to survive. Ailuridae (Red panda) Strict herbivore , arboreal , extinct. Mephitidae (Skunks) They survived in North America (they evolved large herbivores , but competition from the harbivorous hyrax descendants (which evolved in Africa and then spread too Eurasia and North America) and ungulate hedgehogs made the large herbivores survive only in California island.Carnivorous forms survive in North America , while omnivores live in North America and southeast Asia. Mustelidae (Weasels , badgers and otters) Weasels evolved otter like animals , a infraorder of seal like animals and an order of marine mammals.The ferrets and stoats survive in New Zealand (herbivores , omnivores , carnivores) and California island too.Badger descendants live in great Britain and Japan. Procyonidae (Raccoons , coatis and kind) The raccoon survived in N.America and migrated to S.America.It has evolved a family of lemur like animals which replace monkeys (as land carnivores they were outcompeted by carnivorous shrews in N.America and carnivorous opposums in S.America). Pholidota (Pangolins) Too specialised to survive. Proboscidea (Elephants) Extinct. Sirenia (Dugongs and manatees) Extinct. Hyracoidea (Hyrax) Even thought strict herbivores they survived cause Africa was the place where the extinction caused less damages.They have evolved a family of brontothere like animals (endemic to Africa , 500kg-9 tons) , a family of elephant like animals (They live like mastodons in Eurasia and Africa , but as the largest herbivores in N.America , 1-13 tons) , 2 families of primitive camel like animals (the more primitive family is endemic to the east African subcontinent also known as Neoafra , while the other family lives in Africa and Eurasia) , a family of tapir like animals (from Eurasia , Africa and N.America) and also normal hyraxes live in Africa , Neoafra and Eurasia. Macroscelididae (Elephant shrews) They have evolved besides their common forms also some leptictidium like animals in Africa and in Neoafra have evolved a family of dog sized bipedal predators and some deer sized bipedal herbivores. Orycteropodidae (Aardvark) Even thought quite large they survived since in Africa the mass extinction was smaller , they were insectivorous and they were also a bit omnivorous.They have evolved besides their common forms large herbivores and pig like animals in Neoafra.In Africa they survive as termite eaters. Chrysochloridae (Golden moles) They survived. Tenrecidae (Tenrecs) Their diet and size allowed them to survive.In Madagascar some forms have evolved into dog sized predators. Primates (Monkeys , apes and prosimians) Prosimians survived cause of their insectivorous diet (lemurs , even thought mostly herbivorous , can survive in land or savanna) and from bushbabys evolved a new family of lemur like animals which replaces the monkeys.Monkeys survive only as a few relic capuchins and squirrel monkeys in S.America , a few guenons in Africa and Asia and some macaques in Asia.Baboons survived and evolved 2 families of carnivores which dominate in Africa (one family has small forms which replace small carnivorans while the other has large carnivores). Scandentia (Tree shrews) They survived and besides their normal forms have evolved a family of lemur like animals in Eurasia. Dermoptera (Colugos or flying lemurs) They were to specialised in being arboreal so they went extinct. Lagomorpha (Hares , rabbits and pikas) They have declined , but have survived in S.America , Greenland , Iceland , Australia , Falkland islands , Africa , Azores and New Zealand.In Greenland they have evolved a family of large hares with hoof-ish fingers which replace deer.In New Zealand large hares (thought of the rabbit family) take the niche of deer too.In Iceland pikas have evolved cow sized herbivores and in other places pikas survive too. Hystricomorpha (Old wold porcupines and caviomorphs) They have survived and evolved besides their normal forms also large herbivores in S.America and Caribbean.They have evolved also a family of hoofed rodents in S.America and N.America which replace deer. Castorimorpha (Beavers and pocket gophers) Pocket gophers survive in some areas , while beavers are too much depended on wood to build their dams and so they go extinct. Myomorpha (Mice , rats etc) They have survived and evolved some large forms in Galapagos (Galapagos sunk , but while it was sinking new island appeared and so mice migrated to them and became the only mammals of the new Galapagos).They have also evolved a family of carnivorous rodents in Greenaland and Iceland (in these island the only terrestrial mammals are lagomorphs and rodents) Anomaluromorpha (Springhares and scaly-tailed squirrels) Only springhares survived. Sciuromorpha (Squirrels) Only ground squirrels and chipmunks survived.Chipmunks evolved in Greenland Greenland's largest herbivores. Vermilingua (Anteaters) The only terrestrial form was the giant anteater which was too big too survive , while the others were too arboreal. Folivora (Sloths) They were to specialised and too arboreal to survive. Cingulata (Armadillos) Their fast breeding rate and omnivory made them survive.In S.America they have evolved large herbivores , fast running herbivores , pig like omnivores (with some glyptodont like forms) and a family of bear like omnivores (leggurm's from deviantART idea). Metatheria : Marsupialia : Notoryctes (Marsupial moles) They survived. Paramelemorphia (Bilbies and bandicoots) Their omnivorous diet allowed them to survive.They have evolved hoofed forms , palorchestes like forms and also marsupial pigs. Myrmecobius (Numbat) Extinct. Dasyuridae (Quolls , marsupial mice and the Tasmanian devil) The marsupial mice have survived and besides their common forms have also evolved quoll , thylacine-ish and leopard sized carnivorous forms. Macropodiformes (Kangaroos and rat kangaroos) Rat kangaroos have survived and evolved a family which has replaced the kangaroos , a family of omnivores ad carnivores and a family of giant kangaroos with an iguanodont like stance (deer-Asian elephant sized).Some wallabies have survived in Australia and Hawaii , while in New Zealand there lives a relic wallaby. Vombatiformes (Wombats and koalas) Wombats have survived and evolved besides their normal forms some 200 kg herbivores. Phalangeriformes (Diprotodontian opposums) They have survived and evolved some raccoon sized carnivores and omnivores and also a suborder of flying marsupials which live like fruit bats and aye-ayes in Australia and western Antarctica. Didelphimorpha (New world opposums) Besides their normal forms they have evolved a family of animals which replace the carnivorans (ferret-jaguar sized). Pauctiberculata (Marsupial shrews) They have survived and replaced the shrews in S.America. Dromiciops (Monito del monte) Extinct. Monotremata : Ornythorhychus (Platypus) It's insectivorous diet and aquatic life have allowed this animal to survive and thrive.It has evolved some large forms too (90 cm long). Tachyglossus (Short-beaked echidna) It's insectivorous diet allowed it too survive.It has evolved also some large ant-eating forms. Zaglossus (Long-beaked echidna) They're already endangered so they don't survive. Edited by martiitram, Oct 22 2013, 02:03 PM.
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| Zirojtan | Oct 18 2013, 08:13 PM Post #3 |
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What is your mass extinction event here? |
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| martiitram | Oct 18 2013, 08:57 PM Post #4 |
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Pollution , industries and a bit of natural disasters.My idea is that the acid rain would carry not just industrial gases , but also radioactive matter which would create a mass extinction.The pollution would be much bigger (a lot bigger) than today and so the levels of smog would be much higher and would not favor large animals too.Also 7 million years in the future , there happens an extinction [not a mass extinction , but just an extinction which gave the opportunity to the small semi-cursorial hedgehogs to outcompete the giant hedgehogs (the giant hedgehogs are a family of large mainly herbivorous hedgehogs which now survive only in the isolation of Scandinavia) , caused the extinction of reindeer in Falkland islands and also helped some islands grow bigger , but also made some sink].
Edited by martiitram, Oct 18 2013, 08:58 PM.
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| Zirojtan | Oct 18 2013, 10:07 PM Post #5 |
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Ok, Could you be a little more specific? What kind of polution are we talking about, and why was humanity STILL engaged in polluting the environment in such a manner? It would take a very serious mass extinction to open up a door for an animal like a hedgehog to take over the kinds of niches that you're talking about here, and more time I think than 7 million years. |
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| martiitram | Oct 18 2013, 11:06 PM Post #6 |
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Well , the pollution is caused by industries and power plants.As much as we want too save the animals , we also want to have electricity and a nice place to live.The acid rain (which would also include radioactive matter) would make the land radioactive and also damage the plants so large herbivores could not survive.In Australia the camel survived , cause of it's ability to survive without food for quite some time (and as I said earlier , the last camel lives in Tasmania) and in Africa and some islands , goats and pigs survived (in Africa and some islands the pollution was smaller and that's why goats and pigs survived in there).Also , the giant hedgehogs are just large herbivorous hedgehogs which from the small extinction declined and so opened the way to the small semi-cursorial hedgehogs which in a few million years gave rise to the first erinaungulates.
Edited by martiitram, Oct 19 2013, 01:54 PM.
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| martiitram | Oct 19 2013, 11:02 AM Post #7 |
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This is the first part of the list of what happened to birds. Part 1 : -Palaeognathae: Struthioniformes (Ostrich) The fact that Africa was one of the less polluted places after the mass extinction and the fact that ostriches are omnivorous allowed them to survive.There are 3 species :The paradise ostrich [Sylvistruthio paradisiensis (from Neoafra's jungles)] , the climber bird [Montanornis semiperssiodactylus (from the Eurafrican plateau)] and the Saharan ostrich [Palaeostruthio velocipes (from the Saharan grassland)]. Rheiformes (Rheas) Even thought omnivorous they were too big to survive and S.America is just a little less polluted than Eurasia and N.America so there wouldn't be enough food. Casuariformes (Cassowaries) The only specie that survived was the dwarf one , whose descendants now live in Tasmania. Apterygiformes (Kiwis) The little spotted kiwi was only near threatened and it was able to survive in Chatham islands with 2 descendants.In order to survive the introduced predators he evolved new adaptations such as a larger size , a more aggressive behaviour and it started not laying just a huge egg , but more smaller eggs.The mothers during the time when they take care of their chicks are much more aggressive and would attack a hungry stoat , by kicking it with their talons . Tinamiformes (Tinamous) They survived with normal forms , but in Falkland islands they have evolved some turkey like species too. -Anseriformes : Anhimidae (Screamers) Their herbivorous diet and large size didn't allow them to survive. Anseranatidae (Magpie goose) With only one herbivorous specie and it's large size it wasn't able to survive. Anatidae (Ducks , swans and geese) Even thought most are herbivores , there are plenty of omnivorous species.Some herbivorous forms (such as mallards and geese) survived too.In Antarctica a infraorder of giant (20kg-2 tons) herbivores has evolved from geese. -Galliformes : Megapodidae (Incubator birds) They need a lot of vegetation to build their nests alone and after the extinction they wouldn't fare well.About 25% of the family survived and now have reached their old diversity levels.They have also evolved a subfamily of large flightless forms in Borneo and Java. Cracidae (Curassows) Most of them went extinct , but about 20% of the family survived and they have also evolved a family of ratite like forms and arboreal forms too. Odontophoridae (New world quails) Their omnivorous diet and small size allowed them to survive.They have evolved some chicken like forms too. Numididae (Guineafowl) Their omnivorous diet and relatively small size allowed them to survive.They're less diverse thought cause of the comepetition from the phasianids. Tetraonidae (Ptarmigans and grouse) Their mostly seed eating diet made them decline by 90%.Some species survive thought (mostly in Greenland and Iceland) , but they have only 30% of the diversity thy used to have. Phasianidae (Chickens , turkeys and pheasants) Most of the family survived.Chicikens evolved a family of ratite like animals in Europe and the turkey survived in N.America and California island where it evolved some large forms too. -Mesitornithiformes & Eurypygiformes Mesitornithidae (Mesites) Only the brown mesite survived cause of it's larger range and it has evolved a subfamily of kiwi-mesite-ish birds which are the only mesitornithiformes. Rhynochetidae (Kagu) Being already endangered the sole member of the family didn't survive. Eurypygidae (Sunbittern) Its insectivorous diet and small size allowed it to survive and it has evolved besides the common sunbitterns also a subfamily of heron like birds which live in Galapagos and some other island of the Pacific ocean. -Caprimulgiformes : Caprimulgidae (Nightjars) Their insectivorous diet and small size allowed them to survive.They have evolve also a family of owl like nighjars which fill the niche of owls. Eurostopidae (Eared nightjars) They survived just like the true nightjars. Nyctibiidae (Potoos) Their diet (large insects and sometimes small bats) allowed them to survive. Podargidae (Frogmouths) Even thought they were mostly carnivorous they were able to survive since their prey was small and abundant.Some forms fill the niche of owls and birds of prey in Australia. Steatornithidae (Oilbird) It survived. Edited by martiitram, Oct 20 2013, 12:16 PM.
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| Citrakayah | Oct 21 2013, 01:55 AM Post #8 |
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I'll be blunt, this isn't very good. Your extinctions are haphazard and make no sense. You use several ideas that are obviously taken from other projects (muntjacs becoming a feature of the North, for example), though I find this to be a fairly insignificant problem. No, far more problematic is the extinction patterns. For instance, you have all deer except two small species going extinct, as well as almost all canines except gray foxes (ignoring that gray foxes are one of the less common species in North America), cats going extinct everywhere but the Falkland Islands (with only Felis catus surviving)... and you have, at most, four words devoted to your reasoning. Not good enough. Not nearly good enough. |
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| martiitram | Oct 21 2013, 12:22 PM Post #9 |
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Well , I can change some things , but what do you think about the other part? |
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| martiitram | Oct 21 2013, 01:20 PM Post #10 |
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About the muntjacs in the north , well they're really successful in Britain and they're small size and the fact that Britain wouldn't be as damaged as the other parts of Europe would allow them to survive.Also I could make a few other canines survive and make the most successful predators of California island not be descended from the grey fox , but from the red fox (there could be some grey fox descendants too , which could live like aardwolfs).I can make the cat survive in New Zealand and Britain too , but it will be the only felid to survive , cause the felids are pure carnivores and they would survive only in the places where food would be abundant (in New Zealand , Falkland and Britain would be enough food to sustain them).What other ideas do you think I have stolen? |
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