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| Nothingness and eternity | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: May 31 2014, 03:56 PM (354 Views) | |
| brett | May 31 2014, 03:56 PM Post #1 |
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The root of human error is projection. This is what happens when we pick what our minds conveniently grasp over what can be deduced from reality. The fundamental root of projection arises from "universalism," or seeing our subjective principles as inherent. The truth is that nothing is inherent. The universe is empty and meaningless. However, it does have an order. To find this order valuable is a choice, like anything else. Many do not value truth; this is a choice. (Truth is the parsing of reality more correctly than not.) To want to understand the order of the cosmos is another choice. It is also not inherent. No one must do it. It just is. Without understanding this nothingness, no truth can exist: Truth is choice, like beauty and goodness. *** Those who enjoy life tend toward truth. To them, it is useful, not inherent. In it they find a state of reverence and beauty. This pleases their notion of what life is, which is "a place where beauty is possible." They are thus staring into eternity. Not a place in which there is finite process, but one that is infinite. And in that, each choice leads to a different path. *** Nothingness and eternity are not one and the same, nor are they different. It is safe to say they are continuations of one another. Without an option for nothingness, there is no value to eternity. Without eternity, nothingness becomes static and useless. As a wise man once said, "God does not play dice." |
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http://www.nihil.org/ | |
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| crow | May 31 2014, 04:33 PM Post #2 |
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It is probably just as flawed to say there is no meaning, value, truth, to the cosmos, as it is to say there is. Judgements mean nothing to what is. It is. That is all that can be said. Beyond that, it can be observed to be awesome, and mysterious. |
| "Squawk!" said the crow, and then made space. | |
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| brett | May 31 2014, 04:34 PM Post #3 |
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Glad to see we agree on the error of inherency. |
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http://www.nihil.org/ | |
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| crow | May 31 2014, 04:41 PM Post #4 |
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Agreement isn't much use, really. A journey of discovery is about the discovery of the way things are. To really discover anything, you have to do the discovering yourself. The journey of a thousand miles may be irksome, but either you make it, or you don't. If you don't, you'll never have made it. |
| "Squawk!" said the crow, and then made space. | |
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| brett | May 31 2014, 04:47 PM Post #5 |
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Without the illusion of inherency, the journey can begin. Otherwise, one is still stranded in human universals like the New Agers. |
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http://www.nihil.org/ | |
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| crow | May 31 2014, 05:10 PM Post #6 |
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That's amusing The armchair enlightenment set. Wisdom in a convenient package. Such people have done untold damage to spirituality along their shoddy way. |
| "Squawk!" said the crow, and then made space. | |
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| brett | May 31 2014, 05:14 PM Post #7 |
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As I opined elsewhere, I think they're painful. And they can show up anywhere. |
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http://www.nihil.org/ | |
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| welkyn | May 31 2014, 07:19 PM Post #8 |
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What can be "deduced from reality" is, unfortunately, only a higher order of projection: to "deduce" is to "lead away" (following the Latin); what is led is the mind, and it is led away from reality. Only to sit, in silence, and to take in what appears to one without making any internal movement; to let the mind rest in the heart of one's being, not grasping for questions or answers, seeking nothing more than what is here, now - this inner stillness is all that is required to learn what cannot be taught: one's own nature. Knowing this nature, the root of error - ignorance - is dispelled, and no error is perceived anymore. While the mind is still seeking questions and answers, ignorance abounds; while the mind is still creating models and projecting possibilities, ignorance abounds. When ignorance has been dispelled by the truth of what is, there are no models; there are no projections; there are no possibilities; there is only this. |
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| crow | May 31 2014, 07:53 PM Post #9 |
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Lao Tzu speaks |
| "Squawk!" said the crow, and then made space. | |
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| welkyn | May 31 2014, 08:03 PM Post #10 |
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Lao Tzu speaks: He is a liar. Lao Tzu is silent: He is truthful. Edit: couldn't resist
Edited by welkyn, May 31 2014, 08:03 PM.
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| brett | May 31 2014, 08:11 PM Post #11 |
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A convenient answer, but not a useful one. Many Buddhists meditate many years, find no solutions. Thus, there is more to the equation. |
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http://www.nihil.org/ | |
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| welkyn | May 31 2014, 08:21 PM Post #12 |
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Many Buddhists meditate many years, seeking solutions. They're doing it wrong. |
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| brett | May 31 2014, 08:25 PM Post #13 |
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Either that, or it's no different a thought process than thinking. The problem you identify is unrealistic thinking, not thinking itself. See the post labeled "Los Angeles" for some description of where people go wrong. |
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http://www.nihil.org/ | |
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| welkyn | May 31 2014, 08:30 PM Post #14 |
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There is no realistic thinking; thinking is already several steps removed from reality. It is only from the position of thought that thought can be considered more real than what is here before thought arises. Edit: I might add, that "seeking solutions" implies thought. I can quote Ramana Maharshi here: "When there are thoughts, it is distraction: when there are no thoughts, it is meditation." Edited by welkyn, May 31 2014, 08:31 PM.
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| crow | May 31 2014, 09:13 PM Post #15 |
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Intellect, and the use of logic, is akin to experiencing life through braille. A wormhole through dark soil. It is undeniably better than nothing, but very, very far from being the definitive knowing-apparatus. |
| "Squawk!" said the crow, and then made space. | |
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| brett | May 31 2014, 10:29 PM Post #16 |
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Denying that meditation is itself an operation of logic, in the same way thinking itself is, is to perpetrate fraud on oneself. |
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http://www.nihil.org/ | |
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| crow | May 31 2014, 10:44 PM Post #17 |
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If that is so, one could do a lot worse. But it is nothing of the sort, unless it is. Many are guilty, for sure, but I am not one of them. |
| "Squawk!" said the crow, and then made space. | |
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| brett | May 31 2014, 10:49 PM Post #18 |
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I think I am speaking generally. Why did you interpret it as being about you? |
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http://www.nihil.org/ | |
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| welkyn | Jun 1 2014, 01:23 AM Post #19 |
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In what way is the cessation of thought an "operation of logic"? Indeed, logic must also be still in order for there to be meditation. Nothing is derived; nothing is deduced; nothing is proven; nothing is supported; nothing follows. What can follow when there is no time? Past and future are artifacts of the mind, and it is past and future which allows the progressive structure of logic to adhere. Without extension, there cannot be logic - meditation is to be the unextended (no "time", no "space", only what is, which is beyond time and space). |
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| Stencilmania | Jun 1 2014, 02:37 AM Post #20 |
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I suppose in this case, logic refers to an 'order' of sorts? I think the issue is that something that is and isn't inviolably nevertheless breathes of itself, and thus has a presence that is not deducible, but is rather, inevitable fallout. I think we're having a disagreement on terms here. Is this a useful disagreement? I dunno. |
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Change alone is unchanging. --- Heraclitus //////// To the ego, the world is an infinite leap away. To the world, there is nothing. This explains the breach. | |
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| crow | May 8 2016, 10:04 AM Post #21 |
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Interesting thread to bump. To those who know nothing but mind, mind is the be-all and end-all. The ultimate tool. Yet to the one who has transcended mind, it is a child's carpentry set, good only for being able to imagine oneself an adult, doing adult things. To the thinker, there is nothing but mind. To the non-thinking adept, the mind is like a black hole, into which everything else disappears. Edited by crow, May 8 2016, 10:06 AM.
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| "Squawk!" said the crow, and then made space. | |
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The armchair enlightenment set. Wisdom in a convenient package.

12:30 PM Jul 11