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An obscure checkpoint encountered at the cusp of time and memory
Topic Started: Jun 12 2015, 01:02 AM (186 Views)
xor
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Ascetic
There is this time at around 3-4 years of age, that I fell asleep with my parents in a strange place, kind of like the feeling of falling asleep in a travelling vehicle at night, yet it was peaceful nonetheless, and I slept well. But the strange thing is that for some reason, after that night and for many years to come I sometimes imagined that I was in fact still asleep and that my life from that point on hadn't really been occurring but was actually part of the dream from my sleep that night (not that I can remember what I actually dreamt of or if I even dreamt)

Anyway, I wish I knew a bit more about psychology so that I could find out what this sort of thing means (if anything). I think I started thinking about it again after Mr Swanson's recent post because time seems to bend in both the dream and the child-mind. But what if perhaps that isn't the case and I suddenly wake as a 5 year old boy again in the vehicle with my parents? I guess I would kind of miss this life a bit.
Edited by xor, Jun 12 2015, 01:03 AM.
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welkyn
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It's all dream. There's not really any difference in form between what we call "dream" and what we call "waking". When you're dreaming, you believe you're awake. That's why you can consider while awake that you might be dreaming!

If you woke up as your five year old self, you'd quickly forget "this life". It was just a dream, after all : )

It's funny, because I now look back on "my life" very much like that... What a bizarre dream!
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crow
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When I arrive at a particularly nasty, or violent bit, in a dream, I usually decide to wake-up.
However, when such events occur in waking life, I find that to not be an option.
"Squawk!" said the crow, and then made space.
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Oscar
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Many people seem to entertain the idea that life is just a dream. Some may say that everything is an illusion or that it's not really happening or that we cannot know if we're awake or not. It's like they are living inside their heads and nothing else exists.

It might be good to contemplate what dreaming is a little, because if you figure that you can wake up from a dream, then what is to say that you could not wake up some more while awake? Some would find that interesting and investigate it. Perhaps they'd practice awareness. Or there could be some other insight. But there is also a lot of wannabes out there who hear of cool ideas and they get all confused. Probably, they believe in everything that they hear and that they are spiritual, cool and smart too.

I've never heard of anyone experiencing anything like what xor is describing, except for Chuang-Tzu's butterfly dream.
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Ardy
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Generous
Enlightenment is also called Awakening for a solid reason. This world is obscured from the vast majority of us, excluding those like Crow and Soren. So, although we claim it is our reality it is not the REAL reality. Once you get even a glimpse of it, like I did, you never forget it.
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crow
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The World is obscured from me, too, most of the time. That's what being anywhere near 'society' does for you.
Yet I remember The World: it's always there, always available, any time I notice.

"Squawk!" said the crow, and then made space.
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Oscar
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Since a Buddha is known as an 'awakened one' there exist a lot of new-age spin-offs on awakening. Then you have to sift through the muck unless you're so pure and smart that you just get it. There is a risk that you become trapped with the idea of awakening rather than taking any steps towards awakening. Edit: or just as likely the idea that everything is a dream and that you can act as you please without care for consequences.

I'm a practical(pragmatic?) man so the way that I go about things is to work with where I am. There might be more awakened states but I am right here, trapped in this state for now, in my body.

I see a sight, a tree for instance, now is this sight not real? I view the tree and my sighting it as very small parts of Reality with the big R. Reality or Existence is the one and only thing that is, I reason, and I cannot see that Reality with my eyes. I cannot see the forest for the trees. But the tree and my sighting it must be real - what else could it be?

Continuing with the tree...An every day tree become very real if you look at it with love. Then it is like you were blind before, caught in a dream, but now you see clearly. Only it was always there, you just didn't see the beauty of the world before. It honors Reality in a way, if you look at any tiny part of it with love.

I hope that you could follow that :). In a sentence I assume that "it's all real!" but you could call it illusory. It makes me a little nauseous when people say that life is just a dream as if nothing is real or matters in any way.
Edited by Oscar, Jan 8 2018, 04:35 AM.
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Ardy
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I agree Oscar, I always assume that anyone saying that has never kicked their toe against a bed frame!

There is a reality and the mistake people make is in reading about the 'dream' somewhere and assuming it is exactly what it says, it ain't.

All that is being said is that there is a more 'alive' version of what you see, hear, smell and feel.

At least we all know the difference here!
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Oscar
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Ardy
Jan 8 2018, 06:26 PM
I agree Oscar, I always assume that anyone saying that has never kicked their toe against a bed frame!
That's a good point :-). Ought to bring anyone who says it's unreal 'back to their senses'.

I contemplated this a little since writing my last post and I understand that there is a place for the term illusion after all. It must be what they call 'Maya'. Calling it Maya, or illusory, would be better than calling it illusion. Maybe there's no appropriate English term for it.
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crow
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There seems to be no appropriate English term for anything, any more.
Nobody knows what anybody means by anything they say, due to years of destructive tinkering with the language.

It's possible, I suppose, that nobody ever did know anything that was meant by anything anybody said, but until recently it was not noticed as clearly and as often as it is now.

No wot I mean?



"Squawk!" said the crow, and then made space.
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Oscar
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crow
Jan 10 2018, 05:56 PM
There seems to be no appropriate English term for anything, any more.
Nobody knows what anybody means by anything they say, due to years of destructive tinkering with the language.

It's possible, I suppose, that nobody ever did know anything that was meant by anything anybody said, but until recently it was not noticed as clearly and as often as it is now.

No wot I mean?



I feel U, man!

...I don't have much to compare to, except to old books or recordings, so I don't know how it was like before. I can understand you well enough since you wrote in simple terms. It's a good thing, for me, that you're not a rapper or a physicist.
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Ardy
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Oscar: you said, "Since a Buddha is known as an 'awakened one' there exist a lot of new-age spin-offs on awakening." I hear people talking about 'being in the moment' being the most stupid as being in the moment is a result of enlightenment, not a thing to be dragged off the shelf when you feel you need it. The mindfulness movement seems to be taking a fair chunk of Buddhist practice and weaving it into Buddhism 'light'.
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Oscar
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Ardy
Mar 29 2018, 02:55 PM
Oscar: you said, "Since a Buddha is known as an 'awakened one' there exist a lot of new-age spin-offs on awakening." I hear people talking about 'being in the moment' being the most stupid as being in the moment is a result of enlightenment, not a thing to be dragged off the shelf when you feel you need it. The mindfulness movement seems to be taking a fair chunk of Buddhist practice and weaving it into Buddhism 'light'.

People warp things; it is what they do. I was told by a know-it-all Buddhist that 'being in the moment' is just a hippie-thing, and he laughed at me and berated me for mentioning 'just being', for meditation. He was probably right that 'being in the moment' is a hippie-thing but 'being' is also a viable no-mind practice. 'Being in the moment' may well be a result of enlightenment, as well as being a hippie-practice.

When you find the original sources to the spin-offs, it becomes clear why people say and do what they say and do. There is a grain of truth in the new-age stuff, I suppose, that that is why it's so appealing.
Edited by crow, Mar 30 2018, 12:11 PM.
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crow
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Great discussion!
People say things that they decide makes them look good, often without knowing anything about what might be being referenced, by the words they merely repeat.
New-age is leftism, is shallowness, is a costume. It is often a nazi costume, and there's no doubt that the nazis had some very snappy outfits to wear.

See, there's nothing humans like to do more than manipulate each other, for personal gain.
Enlightenment reveals that there is a whole universe outside this petty manipulation, and one in which the enlightened being may actually live, rather than simply act-out a life, in the most petty of fashions.

You might not imagine that a phrase like 'being in the moment' could be so thoroughly unknowable. But for sure, it is.


"Squawk!" said the crow, and then made space.
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Ardy
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Being in the moment=enlightenment, in my book. I think that is why I react to the constant overuse of such an important spritual statement!

I found a site where the teacher is not enlightened but has read a lot. He has some useful stuff on meditation.
The site is here. This not a recommendation from me, just a reference site. https://liveanddare.com/types-of-meditation
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