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Is there life after death?
Topic Started: Sep 4 2015, 01:38 PM (324 Views)
Veronique
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Is there life after death?
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welkyn
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Is there death after life?
To clarify: we all know what it's like to be dead. Death is a state of non-experience. No phenomena. Deep sleep is the same. We're definitely alive while we're asleep. I'd say we're definitely alive while dead. To identify the body that is born, grows, ages, and dies as "I" is the error, here... If you claim this to be yourself, then there is life after death - after the disintegration and subsequent reintegration of the integral parts of the corpse. If you make no claims about yourself, you are life. Life doesn't die.
Edited by welkyn, Sep 4 2015, 04:42 PM.
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crow
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Thanks, Lost_wanderer, for your getting into the spirit of this Q&A thing.
A place to pose questions, in order for there to be a reason to offer answers.

Is there life after death? Of course. But I would put forward the observation that this is only so for those who have become their Soul, in life.
Otherwise, it's the wheel of life and death: karma, rebirths over and over, until the disconnected soul becomes realized.

I don't know how it all works, but I do know it does work. What happens after life depends entirely upon that life. And how it greets its death.
Edited by crow, Jun 1 2017, 02:35 PM.
"Squawk!" said the crow, and then made space.
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Veronique
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Thanks for the answers.
How can someone can become is soul?
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crow
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How did Jesus become The Messiah? How did Gautama become The Buddha?
People are just people until they discover their true nature.
To most, this is never investigated, but to the few, it is the most important facet of life.

"Squawk!" said the crow, and then made space.
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welkyn
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For the soul to be as it is, it needs to forget being someone. "Being someone" is the error; being is as it is. As soon as we forget our temporally bound personal identity, we're the reality that we are. There's no real "becoming" what you are - you are that, so how could you become it? Even so, there's definitely an "unbecoming" of what you're not (at least, as it's experienced).
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SorenL
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You already are soul - but only insofar as you are able to become aware of it.

The full extent of what it means to be a soul: Something very hard to fathom.

Almost impossible, even.

But also: Almost impossible to give up trying to fathom.

A tricky thing indeed, becoming a soul!
BOKAJDANNANNETTID
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welkyn
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It's an all or nothing thing, as far as I've experienced it. If there's even the slightest taste remaining for the illusory personality that covers up the reality of the soul, the soul will be obscured to exactly the same degree that there is desire for something else. If desire for the soul is absolute, then it is already here, and there is no obstruction.

The sole problem is that, residing within this soul, innumerable tendencies towards so-called "external" things lie dormant, and they all seem to desire satisfaction. We tend to satisfy our desires in our lives; it seems the natural thing to do. Satisfaction of any desire only serves to strengthen it, though; over time, we become burdened by the weight of our desires, and seek to be rid of them. We've likely already noticed that giving in to them does not limit them in any way, but rather causes them to grow stronger. It is at this point that we begin to turn inwards, away from the "external" world, towards our own being, our own reality.

The freshness of this feeling of being turned towards the reality is so great. It's like experiencing the rest of sleep in the full brightness of waking life: to be totally aware of absolute peace, absolute bliss. Many take an experience like this to be "enlightenment", and then go back into the world, allowing their desires to come up as they did before, capitulating to them, but holding onto the notion that "I was enlightened in the past, therefore it doesn't matter".

The real work is not in getting to the point of recognising your reality - this is actually incredibly easy, and takes no time at all - but somehow stabilising yourself in that reality until there comes a point where it is no longer a matter of your making any conscious effort to be what you are; the process is entirely automatic, you simply know this soul in the same way that you know "I am a man" or "my name is Paul" or whatever. Waking, dreaming, sleeping, it doesn't matter - awareness of your true nature reigns supreme over the fluctuation of all phenomena.

The effort expended in "achieving" this unbroken natural state is only the effort expended in continuously accessing this state at the expense of normal worldly living. As much as you put into it, so much you get out; the goal and the method are the same. If even once you can have the whole of your mind pointed on one thing and one thing only - the truth - you will be free of illusion for all time. The trick is perseverence. You must be absolutely set on destroying anything that is false and attending only to the truth/reality. Once you've had the "experience", you have to keep going back to it - every time you notice that something has come up to cloud your direct experience of reality, remember the reality and let the illusion fall away. Don't sell your reality for anything. The temporary and temporally-bound experience must become permanent, and it will become permanent through no worldly or mental effort, but through the "effort" of being enlightened now.
To bring this back on topic (sorry for the long post, guys): having realised the illusory nature of birth, how can there be claimed to be any death? Being is what is, beyond birth or death.
Edited by welkyn, Sep 7 2015, 05:29 AM.
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SorenL
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No need to apologize. That was a great read! Thanks for that one, welkyn.
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xor
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The soul has a lifespan beyond physical mortality; that part I understand. I've personally even come a lot closer to what I believed would be my physical death than I could previously have anticipated. It's funny just how quickly reality shifts into focus at moments like that, completely unforeseen, only to be revealed to be fleeting. And of course, extremely disheartening when you find yourself forgetting what matters in reality, returning to the ignorant ways of the fool.
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crow
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Welkyn:
You seem to suggest that the enlightened being act like one forever after. Do I understand you?
For my part, once I had attained what was my goal, for so many years, I immediately left it alone, because a still-living human must be a still-living human, rather than a rather useless dweller upon mountain tops.
This entailed returning from Godhood to humanity, and becoming again part of humanity. At least, as much as I am able to be.
This also means doing human things in human ways for human reasons. No acting is involved, only being.
People have often accused me of not behaving as an enlightened person would - as if they would know! - but the point is this:
One carries with one the knowing of enlightenment, rather than the enlightenment, itself, and this affects and advises every subsequent moment of one's remaining lifespan.
One remains human, but with knowledge of God, the Way, and the hereafter.

You seem to diverge considerably from this view, and that is nothing I could find issue with, but outlined above is a description of where I am, and how I see it.
My Soul, I feel, is everywhere, and in everything, and in every time. While still within my body. A human I am, and will remain, until I am human no more.



Edited by crow, Jun 1 2017, 02:37 PM.
"Squawk!" said the crow, and then made space.
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welkyn
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The form is always the expression of the formless, whether this is expressed in form or not! I would not say that anyone is more or less enlightened than anyone else; some forms seem to know it and proclaim it. Of those, some seem to embody it in activity and lifestyle. What each will appear to "do" is down to the universe as a whole, really - everything fits in its right place.

For my part, I know the goal, but diversion comes in here and there. The current mode of living seems to be to move fluidly with the world - as a human might - while continuously allowing the attention to revert to the (pure) reality, even in the midst of action/talking/thinking etc. This would be enough for me, had I not heard from the one I trust the most that there is a state beyond this, where even the coming and going of diversion is instantly seen through, without any "effort". Only the pure reality is perceived. I would give this and every other life to remain fixed upon that reality without room for distraction - and yet, at the same time, I'm fully aware that the "inability" to do this, not to mention the desire for it, is born of God, and is God's movement, God's play.

To put it another way: there's a knot somewhere in here, in this person/mind, that can be untied or cut, if enough space is allowed. The current "process", then, seems to be one of allowing this space. It's quite spontaneous, really, and yet, on the other hand, I do seem to do a lot of "doing" when it comes to redirecting (or, really, annihilating) my "focus". When I'm not engaging with the mind, the reality is real; when I'm engaging with the mind, there's an "I" in the way of reality. What a quandary! I can't seem to get myself out of my own way when I'm in it. Allahu akbar.
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crow
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A human does nothing better than trip and fall. It is, you could say, the very definition of what it is to be human.
Soul has no such handicap. Serene and graceful, silent and luminous. There is nothing for Soul to trip over, and nowhere in which to fall.
Have compassion for your poor, shabby body, as it stumbles around, searching for relief. It is its natural state.
Feast your attention upon it, while you can. Like a beloved bunny, suddenly gone, make sure you love it now.
Edited by crow, Jun 1 2017, 02:38 PM.
"Squawk!" said the crow, and then made space.
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welkyn
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It's loved for what it is, not for what it purports to be. So too with the mind, and with every creature in this universe. Love is loved for being love, despite its pretence at being not-love! : )
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SorenL
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There is a life after death - if by 'life' we mean love, pure and untainted.
A love, loving love, in love with love, loving love.
If it indeed was this loving love in life.
*Language collapse*
Pling
:)
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crow
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The 'love' most people imagine love to be, is an amalgamation of a million memories, fantasies, endocrine and electrical inputs, producing what we know as emotion.
In the afterworld, there is no emotion. With no identity, no memory, no fantasy, no chemistry and no electrical impulses bridging synapses, how could there be? Yet it is nothing but love. A love we have no capacity to imagine, let alone experience, here in physical life.

Edited by crow, Sep 10 2015, 04:55 PM.
"Squawk!" said the crow, and then made space.
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welkyn
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And yet this physical life seems to drift in its inimitable way in the midst of an infinite ocean of love... Take one look beyond/behind the form, and the formless is apprehended as it is - pure love!

Even what experiences might come to one after the death of the body - heavens and hells and all inbetween, rebirths, deep sleep - are all happening in the full brightness of this principle love. Everything is made of it, everything that is known is touched by it (for to know is to love, in the essential sense), nothing can exist without it, everything is bent to its will. Love is absolute! But we have to give up our petty notions of "love" in order to taste it; and, ultimately, we have to give ourselves, the tasters, up in order to be it. Then life and death are both seen to be life, and both seen to be death, and all of it is seen to be peace. Love knows no other.
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crow
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There's something very wrong with this notion of everybody already being enlightened, and love is all there is.
While on one specific level it may be so, to a human it does no good. Like the notion of equality, where everybody is just perfect, wherever and however they are.
Who would make the slightest effort to evolve?

No. Man is fallen and evil in his ways. Every holy man always knew that. Just look around, see the very next person you cross paths with, and you'll see proof of this.

Man is evil until, by the grace of God, he is not. And he will remain evil, until by his own efforts, he is not.
He simply can not help himself: evil is man's nature. Although he may have the ability to transcend his nature, if he does not pursue this ability, he is doomed.

Man parts company with the Divine, for as long as he chooses mind over Soul. Identity over Oneness.
He may reclaim his forgotten Divinity, any time he chooses to. But until he does, he is not Divine.



Edited by crow, Jun 1 2017, 02:48 PM.
"Squawk!" said the crow, and then made space.
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Water
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Is death divine? Making a friend of death, necessary for what comes next.

Spokes on a wheel. Round and round. Lao Tzu said something about wheels; it's the emptiness in the middle that makes them useful.

Bummmp.
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crow
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Death is as Divine as life. More-so, because life is so distracting, and requires so much expertise to live it.
Death is pure surrender, if done right. There's nothing easier, nor as satisfying.

"Squawk!" said the crow, and then made space.
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DMT
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Veronique
Sep 4 2015, 01:38 PM
Is there life after death?
Is there death after life? ... The is a pheonix sitting on a couch, speaking to Sigmund freud about her great fears about death. She explains her deep abiding fears about death. After listening to her, freud responds,, "I see clearly all your fears are rooted in sexual repression"..society is The confused counselling the lost.
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crow
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It's no use asking people anything about anything. People know nothing.
You'll know nothing, either, until you set aside your human-identification.

Edited by crow, Oct 18 2017, 09:56 PM.
"Squawk!" said the crow, and then made space.
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