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| Nobody is perfect | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Sep 9 2015, 05:59 AM (172 Views) | |
| SorenL | Sep 9 2015, 05:59 AM Post #1 |
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Family Man
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Remember: You are nobody. |
| BOKAJDANNANNETTID | |
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| crow | Sep 9 2015, 09:44 AM Post #2 |
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One
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That may well be the definitive Secret Of Life. |
| "Squawk!" said the crow, and then made space. | |
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| welkyn | Sep 10 2015, 06:08 AM Post #3 |
Black
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It's one thing to know for a fact that one is nobody; it's another thing entirely to know nobody as nobody knows nobody. |
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| crow | Sep 10 2015, 09:55 AM Post #4 |
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One
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That wasn't entirely clear |
| "Squawk!" said the crow, and then made space. | |
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| welkyn | Sep 10 2015, 12:44 PM Post #5 |
Black
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Anyone can say "we're enlightened, everyone's enlightened already"; it's an entirely different thing to be that enlightenment : ) |
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| crow | Sep 10 2015, 01:02 PM Post #6 |
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One
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I see. Language started out as a survival trait, with which humans could share knowledge and experience. Thus they were able to effectively cooperate. This worked very well, when words faithfully described Reality. Now, of course, most words uttered by most people, have little or no connection to Reality, and mean almost nothing. Thus did the survival trait become a suicidal trait. People can, indeed, say anything at all. And whatever they may say does not alter who and what they are. |
| "Squawk!" said the crow, and then made space. | |
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| SorenL | Sep 10 2015, 01:21 PM Post #7 |
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Family Man
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It's all about the 'whatever it is' behind the words, that writes- or utters them, and thus puts them into order. In order for the words to be in harmony with reality, the power behind them must also be real. And that is the real problem with most words uttered these days: They may sound sort-of okay, but the people behind them have no real power. |
| BOKAJDANNANNETTID | |
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| welkyn | Sep 10 2015, 04:08 PM Post #8 |
Black
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Most people's speech is something like echoes. They repeat what they've heard or read from others. Even many who would claim to be spiritual are like this, for a time - they develop the understanding of the matter, and then begin to proclaim it, before having actually had the experience which is necessary to give those words weight and meaning. This is probably why new students weren't allowed to talk in traditional Advaita Vedanta schools/ashrams until they'd spent at least a year listening to the more mature students and the teacher(s) discussing the truth. |
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| crow | Sep 10 2015, 05:04 PM Post #9 |
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One
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I know the phenomenon well. Such people form the bulk of any 'spiritual forum' I have ever visited. Every one an expert, and every one knowing nothing of the truth. For 'spiritual', read 'egotistical'. So saying, if you, reader, know even a bit about what we discuss here, count yourself as among the rarest of humans on Earth. How do you know if you know? If you don't, then you don't. And for Welkyn: For anyone who has experienced Dharma, there is no chance, whatsoever, of not recognizing it. Sorry: I'm just gonna have to keep using those pesky terms know, knowledge and knowing. People may not know what I mean by those words, but they would know even less what I meant by calling it Dharma. |
| "Squawk!" said the crow, and then made space. | |
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| welkyn | Sep 10 2015, 11:56 PM Post #10 |
Black
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(Especially if they took the time to look up the word Dharma in a dictionary of some kind!) |
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| xor | Sep 11 2015, 06:38 AM Post #11 |
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Ascetic
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Humanity is perfectly imperfect, by design. God AKA reality, on the other hand is actually absolutely perfect, even when it's not. Perhaps it could only ever seem imperfect in an individual human mind, but really whether it's perfect or not doesn't even enter into the equation of actually 'being at one with reality'; the equation itself is inherently human. As far as I can see, it is only in striving for perfection, knowing full well that you will never quite reach it, that it can ever be reached. The prophets and spiritual masters set the best known examples. |
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| welkyn | Sep 11 2015, 07:47 AM Post #12 |
Black
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Imperfection appears as silver in mother of pearl (as they say). It's not actually there, but is perceived due to error. When the reality is known by itself, there's room neither for perfection nor imperfection (which, essentially, does make it perfect!). No-one can reach the perfection; the perfection is not something to be reached. Perfection is the prerequisite of imperfection. No reaching is required; only recognition, if anything. Be quiet and regard what is real, and reality has always been present, the perfection prior to perception. This is fundamental... This never changes, never goes anywhere, and is necessary, essential. Infinite, uncompromising, all-embracing... Perfect : ) |
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| crow | Sep 11 2015, 10:57 AM Post #13 |
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One
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This reminds me of what it took to make that last, impossible transition, from striving for enlightenment, to actually realizing it. Trying only gets you so far, but to become the thing you so desire, you must stop desiring it. Perfection is the natural state, moved away from by being the way humans are. In effect, you have to abandon what you think-of as your own humanity, to become truly human. The big thing here, is identity. As long as you hold to one, you will never exceed it. |
| "Squawk!" said the crow, and then made space. | |
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| welkyn | Sep 11 2015, 02:11 PM Post #14 |
Black
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There's an analogy involving celestial bodies and rockets and gravitation and orbits. It takes a certain amount of energy for the rocket to come into orbit around the celestial body; at that point, if it wants to land safely, it needs to let the celestial body draw it in naturally by its gravitational pull. If the rocket tries to go this way or that to get closer to the body, it'll either shoot off out of orbit again or crash into the surface (or through the obect, or whatever). At a certain point, all effort has to be dropped, and effortlessness needs to be allowed to do its thing. That's possibly the most daunting part for many, and is the testing ground of egolessness. |
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| crow | Nov 24 2015, 05:10 PM Post #15 |
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One
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That is so. When I became almost certain that to meditate further would result in my death, I was faced with a choice: do I cut and run, or do I let myself go to whatever fate awaits me? By the grace of God, I made the latter decision. Maybe that takes extreme courage, or perhaps it's just a willingness to relinquish control. Whatever it took, it was the secret key to secret realms, and without it, one goes nowhere secret. |
| "Squawk!" said the crow, and then made space. | |
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| Ardy | Nov 24 2015, 09:03 PM Post #16 |
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Generous
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We had a great rugby player in Australia called 'Nobody" - because nobody's perfect.It is interesting how far to go to pursue it. I bailed out somewhere near that point and it was hard to re-embed myself in the shit of everyday life. One Zen master talking about this sat on a rock day and night for days at a time just about ruining his health, he then cut off a finger. After a breakthrough, his statement was 'How stupid to think I could gain enlightenment one finger at a time'. The guts needed to step into that unknown is not something many can contemplate. The question is that given a similar situation would I step forwards or backwards...... Edited by Ardy, Nov 24 2015, 09:08 PM.
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| crow | Nov 24 2015, 10:05 PM Post #17 |
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One
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It's no different to when actual death comes for you, except that this way, you get a choice. Looking at it like this, it's easy to see that the only thing between heaven and hell, is fear. God I love this forum It's the interaction that clarifies the unclarifiable. |
| "Squawk!" said the crow, and then made space. | |
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| welkyn | Nov 25 2015, 07:47 AM Post #18 |
Black
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What can death be, for me, but death of the ego that claims itself to be "I"? This ego is a mass of fear, desire, and the ideas tying the two together. Through what we call "spiritual practice" all of this is brought to the surface, seen for what it is, and cleared out in the process. What's left is... Nothing at all : ) But this nothing is nothing at all like the nothing that something imagines nothing might be like... It's more like everything, really. In fact, it definitely would be everything if it weren't... nothing XD Still perfect ; ) Edited by welkyn, Nov 25 2015, 07:48 AM.
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12:21 PM Jul 11