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Georgei Ivanovich Gurdjieff; "Life is real only then when I am"
Topic Started: Dec 14 2015, 06:31 AM (161 Views)
Oscar
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I had to make this topic. I am glad that I got to do it.

"You are in prison and you think you are free."
"A person will renounce any pleasure you like but it will not give up its sufferings."
"The devil can lead you to paradise, and God, directly to Hell."

Who was George Gurdjieff? He was the great master that was forgotten. But he is still appreciated by me.

Before I met crow, I had gotten acquainted with a dead mystic. A strong, outlandish man. Exposed to him, I did not know what to think anymore my whole world was turned upside down it had been completely shattered.

His religion was "fourth way". or "ancient Christianity".
:The way of the sly man.

And he made his teachings so absurdly difficult that no one could manage it.

In a nutshell: You are mechanical. You do not have a soul. Everything around you is against your awakening. The masses are fertilizer for the few. Your destiny is to become food for the moon. yes, really... =)

He made it so that all his potential disciples would really have to invest and invest everything into living. He would put his students through arduous struggles.

Beyond this there was an intellectual, scientific dimension to Fourth Way. I am afraid much focus landed on this, much too much focus. Which is why I can not recommend fourth way, unless you truly are 'sly', and skip all the insanely difficult to grasp concepts of it. There is a core to fourth way, and that is "Self-remembering". There is also other things, with much resemblance to Christianity.

To me he was one of the great masters.

Quotes
Joke: 83 y.o. Christmas Turkey
Excerpt from his absurd book

Someone once made a film about Fourth Way. It is well-known. It is called "The Matrix". I like to think this person paid their honours to Gurdjieff.
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Ardy
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I found his biography a good read and there is a movie about him from the 70's. I laughed at his making money by using dyes on sparrows and selling them as canaries. He had a fairly strong following in the UK in the 20s' and 1930's.

Slyness seems to be making a comeback amongst young people. It was very popular in the time of Jane Austen (mid-1800's?) and a review of her work by a cousin spoke about it. Most young people will smile and agree with you to your face and state what they really feel to friends.
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crow
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Funny thing: I just wrote an aphorism:
"Becoming one with Reality, is as simple as becoming Real."

Only then did I notice the title extension of this thread:
"Life is real only then when I am."

That's spooky!
That's weird!
That's Mystery!

"Squawk!" said the crow, and then made space.
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Oscar
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Ardy
Dec 14 2015, 05:02 PM
I found his biography a good read and there is a movie about him from the 70's. I laughed at his making money by using dyes on sparrows and selling them as canaries. He had a fairly strong following in the UK in the 20s' and 1930's.

Slyness seems to be making a comeback amongst young people. It was very popular in the time of Jane Austen (mid-1800's?) and a review of her work by a cousin spoke about it. Most young people will smile and agree with you to your face and state what they really feel to friends.
hahaha. the most terrible enlightened master the world has ever known....maybe then he was just a seeker.

I only read about a hundred pages of his first book, a tome of impossible mental labour, which he ordered was to be read three times before reading anything else! I am glad I did, there has never been another book like it and probably never will be.
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Oscar
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"A man will renounce any pleasure you like but he will not give up his suffering".

Looking for the exact quote I found this:

Quote:
 
I have already said before that sacrifice is necessary. Without sacrifice, nothing can be attained. But if there is anything in the world that people do not understand it is the idea of sacrifice. They think they have to sacrifice something that they have. For example, I once said that they must sacrifice "faith", "tranquility", or "health." All these words must be taken in quotation marks. In actual fact, they have to sacrifice only what they imagine they have, and which in reality they do not have. They must sacrifice their fantasies. This is difficult for them, very difficult. It is much easier to sacrifice real things.

Another thing that people must give up is their suffering. It is very difficult also to sacrifice one's suffering. A man will renounce any pleasure you like but he will not give up his suffering. Man is made in such a way that he is never so attached to anything as he is to his suffering. And it is necessary to be free from suffering. No one who is not free from suffering, who has not sacrificed his suffering, can work. Nothing can be attained without suffering but at the same time, one must begin by sacrificing suffering. Now, decipher what this means.

-- Gurdjieff, in P.D. Ouspensky's 'In Search Of The Miraculous'


http://www.awakin.org/read/view.php?tid=198

What strange beings humans are. To give up pleasures thinking that it makes them saintly, but never their suffering. People hold on to wounds and fantasies and then they fight for them. The other people look up to them as if they are great saints or great people to champion some political cause or whatnot.
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Simpleton
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What is this slyness that Oscar and Ardy speak of? Isn't slyness nearly synonymous with deceit? That is a sword I have left unsharpened for some time and have no desire to put on the sharpening stone again, but I have a feeling I am missing some context.
Edited by Simpleton, Feb 21 2018, 10:35 PM.
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Oscar
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Simpleton
Feb 21 2018, 10:33 PM
What is this slyness that Oscar and Ardy speak of? Isn't slyness nearly synonymous with deceit? That is a sword I have left unsharpened for some time and have no desire to put on the sharpening stone again, but I have a feeling I am missing some context.
It just means a smart man. Not a deceitful man, or anything that sly would typically indicate.

He'd teach in ways that would be difficult for people to swallow. So that when they did, if they did, they would go all-in.

Fakirs, according to what Gurdjieff called a fakir, could stand on their hands for decades. In a year they might produce some little awareness by breaking limitations of the body. Actually he'd refer to it as some alchemical substance, not awareness. A monk might produce that same substance in a month, by prayer. A yogi would produce the same in a week, by meditation. Lastly the sly man would produce a pill out of thin air, and swallow his remedy and have the same gain in an instant.

The sly man begins further down the road than the other three. He understands what he needs and so he makes his own remedies.

He'd call it the fourth way. The first three ways may produce some results, but they are unbalanced. The fourth way is the direct path.

In the movie 'the matrix', the main character is offered a red pill to wake up to reality. Red-pilling has become a popular term for getting in touch with reality.

So being sly is about realism. Just like SoL. It's many things...

Hope that helps!
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Simpleton
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Being sly is not about reality, that is not what the word means. In fact it means something more along the lines of warping reality.

Regardless, what you said is what I suspected was meant by "the way of the sly man", mistranslation perhaps?

I am more interested in what Ardy meant by "Slyness seems to be making a comeback amongst young people..."

The way it's written appears to me as if it is some social movement I am not aware of nor can find any information on.
Edited by Simpleton, Feb 22 2018, 08:07 AM.
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