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Out of Mind.
Topic Started: Jan 13 2018, 02:58 AM (103 Views)
crow
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I realized, this evening, delivering what amounted to a two hour storytelling session to my wife, while she most dutifully listened, enthusiastic as ever, that I've been trying for many years now, to do the impossible...

I realized that even I, as one who has once experienced Spiritual Enlightenment, remain almost completely unable to describe it in any way that remotely does it justice. And why is this? It's always the obvious that we miss...

That ethereal, yet more real than real domain, is simply not a mind-thing. Meaning that the mind can not grasp it. Can not visualize or describe it.
The only portal to it is via deepest meditation, to the point - and beyond - where mind ceases to function, and thought can not go.

Ardy knows of the final barrier between here and beyond, and has spoken of it before. He is unable -so far - to take that final, suicidal leap into the void.
And suicidal it is. Meaning extreme courage is required. Or perhaps something even more powerful. Like simply not caring.

This is hero stuff. And heroes are not brave in the way non-heroes imagine them to be. A hero is someone who stops caring about consequences.
He doesn't care. His devotion insulates him from any other consideration.

In essence, then, the hero simply retires into the moment, and lives it to death. Whether he survives that moment, or not, does not figure.
He does what heroes do, and only heroes can know what that is. He leaps into the void, hoping to fly, but knowing he might not be able to.

I've tried as hard as I know how, over many years, to describe Enlightenment, and the route to it.
Which, while possibly pretty and prosaic, sometimes, is quite a lost cause.
Because I'm describing in mind-terms, to other minds, something that a mind can never grasp.
It's a non-starter.

All you need to know is that there is such a thing, and it is conceivably possible to attain.
That there is what you might call God, but this God is in no way similar to anything a human can imagine.
And that all of it is as good as good gets, benign, limitless, and eternal.

The rest is up to you, and meditation is the only known route, along with considerable fasting, and deep, slow breathing.

Good luck, if you pursue this. It is unlikely you will succeed, but it's not entirely impossible.
If you do chance to realize success, you will know just why it is, that having known Enlightenment once, I have never even attempted to return for a second look.



"Squawk!" said the crow, and then made space.
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Oscar
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Do you care about consequences, now? Or calculate risks? You could talk about Enlightenment on the TV but if you did that that could have all sorts of catastrophic consequences. Maybe you balance reaching out with consequences to your own life?
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crow
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Without more context, I can not answer these questions with the care I'd like to.
"Squawk!" said the crow, and then made space.
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silentpartner
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Somewhat off the main subject - but - I have to say that it was not just wifely duty that kept me enthralled for two hours, listening to Crow's tales from his past. He is a wonderful story teller and the time passed as if it was only ten minutes.
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Ardy
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Oscar
Jan 13 2018, 10:27 AM
Do you care about consequences, now? Or calculate risks? You could talk about Enlightenment on the TV but if you did that that could have all sorts of catastrophic consequences. Maybe you balance reaching out with consequences to your own life?

Oscar: Zen literature has many examples of men dying in the attempt to reach enlightenment. Still, when you compare it to the number of drug takers and drunks who are looking for god at the end of a needle or a bottle then it is minuscule. I am thinking of Kerouac (on the road writer).

That is why it is called the 'Gateless Gate' - if you look for it you can't find it, if you don't look then you never see it.

I have a lot of time this year and I might! go live in a monastery for a few months, maybe in Thailand. Don't expect anything out of it just want to spend some time amongst monks.

Edited by Ardy, Jan 13 2018, 11:55 PM.
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Oscar
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Ardy
Jan 13 2018, 11:55 PM
Oscar
Jan 13 2018, 10:27 AM
Do you care about consequences, now? Or calculate risks? You could talk about Enlightenment on the TV but if you did that that could have all sorts of catastrophic consequences. Maybe you balance reaching out with consequences to your own life?

Oscar: Zen literature has many examples of men dying in the attempt to reach enlightenment. Still, when you compare it to the number of drug takers and drunks who are looking for god at the end of a needle or a bottle then it is minuscule. I am thinking of Kerouac (on the road writer).

That is why it is called the 'Gateless Gate' - if you look for it you can't find it, if you don't look then you never see it.

I have a lot of time this year and I might! go live in a monastery for a few months, maybe in Thailand. Don't expect anything out of it just want to spend some time amongst monks.

Rest assured, I do not place any expectations upon you. I don't want to do that to somebody else. Have a great experience with those monks if you decide to go.

crow
 
Without more context, I can not answer these questions with the care I'd like to.

The other guys discussed submission in the other topic. We may be forced to submit to a mob of people, even if we don't like to. So you could go along while being a part of society to become a hero when you have to be one.

I know that I could get myself into trouble for saying or doing certain things. I could lose a job or my life or be harassed by other people. Jesus was a spiritual man and he is known to have been crucified by other people. That is why I try and keep spiritual things(in particular) to myself. I don't want to lie about them, but since I don't want to risk my life I stay low. But I'm not quite so selfish to keep everything to myself, I still want to be honest with others about the things that matter. It's a precarious balance. Do you restrain yourself to avoid consequences, since they are undesirable, even though I assume that you're not afraid of consequences anymore?

silentpartner
 
Somewhat off the main subject - but - I have to say that it was not just wifely duty that kept me enthralled for two hours, listening to Crow's tales from his past. He is a wonderful story teller and the time passed as if it was only ten minutes.

That's nice. I feel awkward saying it, like I don't know what to say, but it's good hearing from you and hear how much you cherish listening to your husbands stories.
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crow
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OK, Oscar. Das ist klar...

Yes. And no. And sometimes. And rarely. And almost always, etc.
It would be fair to say that I am not anything, or any particular way. Above all, I improvise. Preparation-less.
I often dive in, apparently carelessly, risk-taking, even aggressively. But with the absolute conviction that I will always roll a double-six.
I deal with every situation as unique, and produce a unique response/non-response.
That said, I am aggressive, by nature. In the gentlest of ways. But like a volcano: prone to unexpectedly explode...

A force of nature, in fact, as my wife would certainly confirm.
Like the weather.

"Squawk!" said the crow, and then made space.
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Oscar
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crow
Jan 15 2018, 11:07 AM
OK, Oscar. Das ist klar...

Yes. And no. And sometimes. And rarely. And almost always, etc.
It would be fair to say that I am not anything, or any particular way. Above all, I improvise. Preparation-less.
I often dive in, apparently carelessly, risk-taking, even aggressively. But with the absolute conviction that I will always roll a double-six.
I deal with every situation as unique, and produce a unique response/non-response.
That said, I am aggressive, by nature. In the gentlest of ways. But like a volcano: prone to unexpectedly explode...

A force of nature, in fact, as my wife would certainly confirm.
Like the weather.

That's so ambiguously clear! Maybe it's out of mind..
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