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| 5.02 I'm the Liver; Discuss "I'm the Liver" here | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 8 2015, 06:13 PM (774 Views) | |
| Nette | Jan 8 2015, 06:13 PM Post #1 |
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5.02 - I'm the Liver - Detailed Episode Synopsis - High Quality Episode Stills - Two Sneak Peeks Rate and discuss the episode! |
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| Samuli | Jan 18 2015, 05:18 PM Post #2 |
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"The world breaks everyone, and afterward, some are strong at the broken places."
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Who's going to watch Shameless live tonight?
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| Jessica | Jan 19 2015, 12:52 AM Post #3 |
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aka soulisthirsty
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Livestreams don't work for me so I'll be waiting until some kind soul uploads it to the internet. I might even turn off my wifi and work on my long-overdue-for-an-update fanfiction while it's airing, so I don't end up prowling for spoilers on tumblr. All that does is make me nervous and when I actually watch the episode, I never find it as bad as people's live reactions make me think it's going to be. I think maybe I have a higher tolerance for angst or something Speaking of people's live reactions, if you guys want to chat live with one another during the episode, we've added a chatbox here which should allow for instant posting and refreshing. You can create an account if you want, or just post as a guest. I'm going to post about this officially soon, but I thought I'd mention it here as well. |
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| Nette | Jan 19 2015, 12:09 PM Post #4 |
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I just finished watching it two seconds ago so these are my gut reactions. Yes, finally an intro for Mickey! That made me so happy. Kevin and Svetlana bonding over babies is everything I didn't know I wanted, next step is to get V on board. I'm so worried for Ian, and Mickey's denial. I'm relieved Mandy's church clothes were just for a ploy, though I'd kind of figured that out earlier. Hmm what else. Oh, and Fiona, I love you, but you're a bad influence on Debbie But at least she's aware of it; that scene after the club was kind of heart breaking
Edited by Nette, Jan 19 2015, 04:15 PM.
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| mickeys | Jan 19 2015, 06:07 PM Post #5 |
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Hi guys, I am finally back. I have been meaning to stop by last week but I just have so little energy lately and everything is too much. and then all the negativity and hate on tumblr made me kinda dread the fandom side of the show but here i am (: I LOVED THIS EPISODE. definitely one of my favorites favorites SO FAR EVER of the show. it was so positive and FUNNY (i can't remember the last time I lol'd during an episode) and made me feel so good. I love the vibe the show has this season, what a great job the writers are doing. I could go on forever about how much I love this show. but in more detail: - Sheila. WHAT AN ABSOLUTE DELIGHT. <3 i love her so much. she was so funny. I adore Joan's delivery of her lines and her facial expressions and i love how she stands up for her interest and how she tells Frank to his face what she can't tolerate in her house. I loved when they ran away from Sammi. pure gold. the scene with the hose at the beginning when she acted like the accidentally got Sammi wet. OMG BLESS SHEILA. GIVE ME 40mins OF HER EVERY WEEK. HERE FOR IT TBH. - Fiona. ILY. I just want to be Fiona I think that's why I love her so much. I love how she plays the guys ad how she knows EXACTLY what she wants and how she tries to get it. I love her and her decisions to be the way she is. Like taking Debbie to the concert was amazing and I HOPE that they will bond A LOT more durig this season. I need my girls to bond. I loved seeing her realize how reckless and stupid she was being at the end. that was a great final shot and I loved the feeling it gave me going out of the episode because it summed up the episode pretty well. I love Fiona and her flaws. here for everything she decides to do UNLESS it involves her taking coke again and giving it to Liam ![]() - Lip! LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LIP. everything about Lip is perfect. My S3 hate of Lip is so far gone I can't even remember it. I love Lip, I love the way he talked to Mandy and his crappy job and I love him. the end. - Debbie. Flawless princess but please stop throwing yourself at boys who don't even deserve a second of your attention. - Carl is the love of my life. can do whatever he wants and I am okay with it tbh - Frank. loved him as a donor with all these random people because he is such an asshole and when it doesn't involve his family I love that side of him. the end of was kinda funny too because Frank is Frank but he is smart and he knows his stuff. - Ian. :(((((((( i can't even type this without shaking because honey omg. I feel awful like I can't even watch his scenes at this point. Great performances by Cam. such good display of how sick he really is. i am waiting for him to crash and burn because that's inevitable I believe. I need him and Mandy to just hang out all the time please. - Mickey. light of my life. my everything. he is soooooo freaking protective of Ian and I love every second of it. I just can't get enough of Mickey calming Ian down. it's the best, it gives me life. I love how concerned he is but how scary Ian's state is for him and how he basically just walks on eggshells at this point. You can see him being all tense all the time. Like alert 24/7 to make sure Ian doesn't fuck up. It's precious but it is also really hard to watch for me because I have dealt with this and it's an awful position to be in. I wish he would finally understand how important treatment is for Ian. Until then though I am fine with him and Mandy scheming how to calm Ian down and make sure he doesn't fuck up too bad. - Mandy. NEVER LEAVE EVER AGAIN. Scheming with Ian and Mickey > everything else. Also, please find yourself a decent boyfriend you deserve the world honey. - KEV AND SVETLANA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [screams eternally] I just didn't know I wanted this until this episode? not like ship wise, more like FRIENDship wise. I love it, I think they just kinda balance each other really well? like they could just make money with some sort of illegal infant care thing like please come up with a great business idea together and yeah. the haircut is amazing!!! so attractive. but I am scared about V. i don't like the direction this is going because I love them together but V is being really weird :(( I'm so happy about S5 Shameless. can't wait for next week :))) Edited by mickeys, Jan 19 2015, 06:10 PM.
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| Jessica | Jan 19 2015, 08:06 PM Post #6 |
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aka soulisthirsty
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@ mickeys - The fandom negativity can get pretty bad so I don't blame you for feeling that way at all. I mean, sure, sometimes I agree 100% with what people are criticizing and I even enjoy reading about what they find to be problematic and why. But then other times I just find it exhausting because despite all that, I still enjoy the show a great deal and every once in a while it's nice to read something positive about it too. If you don't take the time to appreciate what the show is doing right, you'll just feel crappy about it all the time and once you've reached that point it becomes a question of why you're even still watching. Anyway, your post actually reminded me of a few things I enjoyed that I had forgotten about, like Sheila with the hose and the final scene with Frank where all the guys are stunned that he was actually right. You can tell none of them really took his speech seriously but the moment they saw that sign they were forced to consider that maybe Frank was actually right. And of course, now this season's theme of fighting against gentrification is finally starting after barely even hinting at it in the first episode. Edit - Part of my post is actually done so I thought I'd tack it on to this one for now until the rest is ready since I was the last to post. Fiona & Debbie I did a post here about Fiona raising her siblings and how much she's really not noticed with each of them, and I think this episode really proved one of the points I had made which I'll just quote here for convenience sake: Obviously I'm not claiming that Debbie growing up in itself is an issue, but it has the potential to become problematic, especially with Fiona fighting against it. Debbie has been displaying signs of wanting to be seen as a grown up and, more specifically, a woman, for more than just the past little while. And although Fiona's seen the signs and given the typical parental answers, she hasn't really taken it seriously - until now, when it's basically thrown in her face and she realizes she can't just brush it off like before. This episode we see Debbie talking to Svetlana about sex, the art of seduction and being a woman. Svetlana's job hasn't exactly been kept a secret, and she's a very beautiful and confident woman, so it makes sense that Debbie would jump at the opportunity to learn from her, just as she was drawn to becoming friends with Ellie and Holly. But what I loved about all of this was when Fiona told Debbie she was a smart girl, so why was she doing this, and Debbie retorted with, "I don't know, you're a smart girl, why are you on probation for drugs?" It's not really the dialogue that I love, it's what came immediately after for Fiona and that was realization. Realization that she hasn't been the best role model and that intelligence in all honesty has nothing to do with what Debbie's going through. Being smart doesn't prevent you from making a mistake, it just makes it all the more difficult to live with once it's over because you did know better, and you did it anyway. And Fiona knows that better than anyone. So she asks if Debbie's friends are still not talking to her because she realizes that her behaviour isn't just about wanting to grow up, it's also about wanting to be accepted and liked and desired by someone, anyone. Debbie has struggled with low self-esteem since as early as the second season, where it's revealed she has no friends her own age and the first boy she's shown to have a crush on is only interested in girls who are more physically developed. And Debbie finally did make friends, and found a "boy" she thought might be interested in her, only for Matty to tell her she's too young and her friends to shut her out. She tries to get the attention of another boy who she'd just heard would have sex with anyone, only for him to turn her down in the most embarassing way she could probably ever have imagined. Her already low self-esteem takes another hit which is what causes her to turn to Svetlana in the first place. Fiona obviously doesn't know everything that's been going on with Debbie, but she changes tactics completely and compromises with her instead of completely shutting her down. She even tells her that her hair looks kind of cute, even though just minutes before she'd been horrified that Debbie suddenly got it cut like that, because she realizes just how badly Debbie needed to hear that. And then she invites Debbie to come see the band with her and for the first time in I can't remember how long, they're actually getting along and having fun and they're just undeniably happy. Debbie is happy just having Fiona want to spend time with her and treating her maybe not like an adult but as more than just a kid. And that should be a good thing, right? Except this creepy guy keeps trying to dance with Debbie, who just goes along with it. And even though Fiona scares him off once and mentions the fact that Debbie is only 14, the moment she turns her back again and dances with that lead singer, the guy is right back to moving in on Debbie without the slightest concern that she's underage. And I couldn't help flashing back to the second season, after Mandy put makeup on Debbie and Terry all of a sudden was noticing her in ways he shouldn't have been and Debbie, instead of being concerned or disgusted, just looked pleased that he'd noticed her at all. Fiona thankfully notices what's going on, because Debbie didn't seem worried about it, and after punching the guy and inadvertently causing a fight to break out she takes off on an adrenaline rush with Debbie just as high on it as she is while they make their getaway. But in what was arguably the most powerful scene of the episode, Fiona sobers up and looks at Debbie smiling and laughing, completely exhilerated, and you can literally see her realizing not only what Sean meant when he said she was chaos, but the fact that Debbie is already starting on the same path Fiona's been struggling to get off - and Fiona helped show her the way without even meaning to. Edited by Jessica, Jan 20 2015, 12:22 AM.
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| Nette | Jan 20 2015, 12:27 AM Post #7 |
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Great posts, Jessica and mickeys! Lots of good points and observations. What Jessica said about the end scene with Fiona and Debbie, and how powerful it was, was exactly my thoughts too. You could see Fiona thinking 'oh shit, this is how it starts, isn't it?'. I wonder how she's going to deal with this further, if she's going to address it and talk to Debbie about it. Sheila was very amusing in this episode and I might start liking her more again if she keeps being like this. "She just brings something out in me, I don't fully understand it... It's hate!" I laughed out loud. Also, mickeys, at least there hasn't been that much negativity here on the forum yet (if any)! So that's a nice break from tumblr, let's hope it keeps staying somewhat drama-free even when we get more active members. |
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| Jessica | Jan 20 2015, 01:11 AM Post #8 |
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aka soulisthirsty
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Oh that's another Sheila scene I forgot about lol. I loved how clueless she was to what she's been feeling and how the realization that it's hate was like, an epiphany. I would say ordinarily that I think that's a bit of a strong word to use, but she and Sammi have been butting heads a lot and this is months after last season as well so I guess it's not that surprising. I've actually been enjoying her character again myself, I know last season I was SO done with her and basically ready for her to leave the show because I felt like they were just forcing her into random storylines to keep Joan Cusack around, they didn't really have a plan for her character. And I don't know why exactly but the adoption storyline just really grated my nerves when I watched it last season so I'm glad this season she's a little more connected to the story, even if that has to be through Frank. And yeah I think the forum so far has been pretty tame as far as negativity goes, not every comment about the show has been positive either obviously but people have mostly just mentioned the negative stuff as a passing thought rather than the entire focus of their post. As for Fiona, I think it was so much easier for her to see what Sean meant once she was on the outside looking in. I don't know how she'll handle things with Debbie, because it's such a precarious position they're in. Debbie definitely needs guidance and a positive influence in her life, but at the same time you don't want to risk alienating her by coming across as judgemental and, frankly, hypocritical. Fiona may just try to keep an eye on Debbie as much as possible, but with her realizing her own destructive habits I get the feeling she'll be more caught up in dealing with that and Debbie will end up slipping under the radar until she screws up and learns the hard way. |
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| mickeys | Jan 20 2015, 02:40 PM Post #9 |
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I agree with you guys on the Fiiona and Debbie aspect. That's actually one of the things I am most looking forward too because I hope we will finally get some sort of mother/daughter relationship there. Even though technically it isn't one, it's (besides Sheila and Karen) probably the only one we have so far and it is important. I am glad Fiona is around to see Debbie grow up but they are also at a point now where Fiona needs to guide her and show her her limits. It's important Fiona grows up even more now and makes sure Debbie expreiences the stuff she wants to but in a safe and secure environment. I hope that Fiona can help her learn and experience but at the same time show her what some of the consequences are. I think that what happened in this episode was a step in the wrong direction because Fiona showed Debbie how it's NOT supposed to be. you can go to conerts and have fun and dance with guys, but try to stay out of trouble and don't be reckless. So yeah I am here for it. I hope Debbie stays good, I need her to.! Do you guys think that Fiona might turn to Sean and ask for help controlling her chaos and kinda see how to help Debbie and Carl grow up and mature better? because that's what I am hoping will happen. That she realizes how much life experience Sean has and that she realizes that she can use him as more as a boss and a flirt.. YES OMG the part where Sheila talked about 'hate' her face was priceless. So good. I love Joan Cusack and I love her interacting with anyone besides Bill Macy and I think Sammi is a great character to deal with. I don't like Sammi but that gives me even more reasont o cheer on Sheila every week. I am glad I came back because it's true, I haven't really seen negativity around here at all yet so yay for that. It's just, as much as I love tumblr, the Shameless blogs have increased by about a thousand since S3 and it's insane how opinionated some of them are. And I mean I get some of the points they make, they make sense and they actually explain it really well too BUT the negativity and high expectations regarding Ian and Mickey (which seems so be the number one ship at this point and also one of the reasos a lot of people are even watching the show) are just poison for the fandom imo. I see so many posts about "oh i am so disappointed in Ian" like what did you expect?? he is sick. ugh. it's like ths fandom is never satisfied and I can already feel myself losing some of the interest I originally had. And i was so happy for this to be back I don't need the negativity you know. glad to have you guys. awesome discussion too <3 |
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| Jessica | Jan 20 2015, 04:31 PM Post #10 |
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aka soulisthirsty
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I think that's kind of what Fiona was realizing in that final scene, and even when Debbie threw her words back at her in the scene just before that. How can she hope to guide her youngest siblings to making responsible choices when she still struggles with it herself at times? And maybe it's not fair on one hand to expect Fiona to sacrifice even more for her siblings when she's sacrificed so much already, but it's not even just about them. It's about her own well being too. Completely agree with the above. I think a lot of what Fiona was trying to accomplish with Debbie by taking her out was giving her a friend, and giving her a good time, because she knows that right now Debbie is struggling with the fact that her "friends" aren't talking to her and she doesn't really have anyone else. It's just like in the second season when she realized Debbie had no friends her own age and tried to provide her the opportunity to make some. Except this time, Fiona was just trying to recapture that sisterly bond and show her a good time and it backfired completely. It's hard to say, I'm kind of hoping that she keeps going to the meetings and stops sitting beside Sean like he asked so that she can actually learn from the information and experience those meetings have to offer. I don't know if he would take her seriously if all of a sudden she just said she realizes what he meant now and tries to get his help, I think for him he'd need to see proof. I saw some people were getting pretty angry with him for what he said to her in the kitchen, but I don't really get why? I mean, okay, I understand why based off their posts and the arguments they were making, but based off the scene and the context I don't. Yes, he basically said she's a chaotic person and he knows if he gives in to their attraction he'll make bad choices. But he also said that's not on her, it's not her fault, it's completely on him. He's a recovering addict who knows his weaknesses and downfalls and he knows that her personality mixed with his is something that could be catastrophic because he's been there before. It's no different from Fiona thinking that band guy is a bad choice that she should stay away from, because she knows, when she's with someone that for her is a bad choice, she makes even more bad choices. Obviously in both cases they should learn some self-control but it's not that simple. Now, his display of impulsiveness and aggression outside of the diner with that couple is another story I'll admit, I think that's a clear sign that he still has a ways to go on his own recovery, but if he needs to separate himself from a personality that he knows is bad for him, that's what he has to do and I don't see an issue with that. I wish Fiona would do the same for herself, frankly, but she doesn't seem to be there yet. LOL I think a lot of why people are enjoying Sheila this season is because Sammi has just gotten so unbearable that watching Sheila speak all of our minds for us is really quite gratifying, you know? And I'm actually kind of upset with how they've handled the Sammi storyline because I do like Emily Bergl and I honestly didn't mind Sammi last season, toward the end she was starting to get annoying but I kind of enjoyed her scenes. Now I just groan every time she shows up on screen and I get such secondhand embarassment from some of her behaviour. Inviting herself to a private dinner, really? By all means, be upset that you had plans for your dad already and they got ruined by this, try to talk him into coming with you instead because it is FATHER'S day and he's your father, but the rest was just not good.
Hopefully the lack of negativity here remains a thing, at least to a point. It's okay to be disappointed, nobody's saying you have to only talk about the good stuff, but at least MENTION the good stuff once in a while lol. The fandom has grown exponentially though and I think at least part of the reason for the high expectations is because a lot of the newer fans binge watched the entire series, meaning the problematic and frustrating behaviour that's been there from day one didn't really get absorbed. It's hard to, really, when the show admittedly overlooks a lot of it and never talks about it again. So now that those same fans are watching it weekly and having more time to absorb what's happening, they're seeing a lot more. As far as the Ian and Mickey scenes go, I think a lot of people expected for the writers to make up for all those seasons of angst and limited physical contact, and that's clearly not happening. I admit, I expected a little more intimacy as well, but I also didn't expect to jump headfirst into a very bad manic episode for Ian. Obviously that shouldn't mean we don't see more intimate moments between them, but honestly I'm just glad that we're actually seeing them deal with his disorder and that it didn't happen in the timeskip. And in general I'm weird with my ships in that I prefer the angst over the fluff for the most part, and not seeing the fluff too often. There's a reason why I tend to lose interest in my ships once they actually get together and the series goes on past that lol. Anyway don't let other people affect your enjoyment of the show, or try not to. Stay away from the negative talk and just take a break if you need it
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But at least she's aware of it; that scene after the club was kind of heart breaking


12:57 AM Jul 11