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5.02 I'm the Liver; Discuss "I'm the Liver" here
Topic Started: Jan 8 2015, 06:13 PM (775 Views)
mickeys
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I think that's kind of what Fiona was realizing in that final scene, and even when Debbie threw her words back at her in the scene just before that. How can she hope to guide her youngest siblings to making responsible choices when she still struggles with it herself at times? And maybe it's not fair on one hand to expect Fiona to sacrifice even more for her siblings when she's sacrificed so much already, but it's not even just about them. It's about her own well being too.


I think you make such a great point here. The fact that she stries to show responsibility even though she struggles with it is something that I think we will see a lot this season? because I believe this season is all about redemption for Fiona and I am looking forward to it. But I can soooo relate to the struggle, like trying to be something or say something or act a certain way when you don't really know that stuff yourself yet. That's tough. I hope her and Debbie can be close and be friends somehow and just figure it out as they go.

Jessica, I LOVE the part you wrote about Sean and I completely agree. I didn't even see anyone complaiging about it but then again I am kinda avoiding the shameless blogs atm just because it will just make me angry. But I also think it's great how aware he is of his current situation and how much he genuinely wants to be better and get better and improve. And he might have moments that bring out the old Sean but we could also see him reacting to that and see how much he wished he didn't react that way. I really really really hope that he won't throw it all away for Fiona.

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And I'm actually kind of upset with how they've handled the Sammi storyline because I do like Emily Bergl and I honestly didn't mind Sammi last season,


THIS x100000.
I was also excited to hear she would be back for this season and now it's just kinda MEH everytime she is on screen. Because while Frank is not my favorite at least his scenes make me laugh. With Sammi it's just like the writers don't have a plan what to do with her? Her SL at this point just seems so pointless??? maybe that's just me but I hope she gets a decent SL this season.

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Hopefully the lack of negativity here remains a thing, at least to a point. It's okay to be disappointed, nobody's saying you have to only talk about the good stuff, but at least MENTION the good stuff once in a while lol. The fandom has grown exponentially though and I think at least part of the reason for the high expectations is because a lot of the newer fans binge watched the entire series, meaning the problematic and frustrating behaviour that's been there from day one didn't really get absorbed. It's hard to, really, when the show admittedly overlooks a lot of it and never talks about it again. So now that those same fans are watching it weekly and having more time to absorb what's happening, they're seeing a lot more. As far as the Ian and Mickey scenes go, I think a lot of people expected for the writers to make up for all those seasons of angst and limited physical contact, and that's clearly not happening. I admit, I expected a little more intimacy as well, but I also didn't expect to jump headfirst into a very bad manic episode for Ian. Obviously that shouldn't mean we don't see more intimate moments between them, but honestly I'm just glad that we're actually seeing them deal with his disorder and that it didn't happen in the timeskip. And in general I'm weird with my ships in that I prefer the angst over the fluff for the most part, and not seeing the fluff too often. There's a reason why I tend to lose interest in my ships once they actually get together and the series goes on past that lol.


OMG, I never thought about it but that makes so much sense. Because when you binge watch something you just go to the next episode anddon't think about it too much because something better might follow and make you forget the previous episodes. But I have been weekly watching it since S1 so it's like... it's Shameless you know. You'll have episodes where something upsets you. But I honestly never felt "disappointed" in the show so I am like, let the writers do their job I have faith in them because they have been doing a superb job for 5 years now.
I agree with you though, I was not expecting them to introduce the disorder RIGHT AFTER Mickey came out and they finally officially a couple and together. That was tough and that kind of really really really overshadowed their S4 SL for me. Because it was a really good SL overall and the character development was amazing even though Cam was only in half of the season. Noone will ever take S3 Ian and Mickey away from me though because that's my favorite. Like you I am here for the angst, and that's why I love their ship so much, so I am not really missin the intimacy. Because I am sure they are intimate off screen just like every other couple on the show. For me their ship was never about the sex but about how they kind of balance each other as characters. And that is still there for me. Maybe more strongly than ever because the tables have turned and I am so intrigued to see that. I want protective!Mickey and helpless!Mickey and all that. so I can't really complain about it tbh. and LIKE YOU, I lose interest in ships that are just there and kinda be couply all the time.

(i love this discussion so much, I am really enjoying this!!)

EDIT:
what i have been meaning to ask
who were those guys with Ian and Mickey in the Milkovich house? like who tried to help balckmail that priest???? they seemed so out of place in the Milkovich house it made me laugh. they were like good looking, clean, cute boys. I wonder how they know them and if they are friends... any ideas?
Edited by mickeys, Jan 21 2015, 06:41 PM.
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Nette
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mickeys
Jan 21 2015, 06:26 PM
EDIT:
what i have been meaning to ask
who were those guys with Ian and Mickey in the Milkovich house? like who tried to help balckmail that priest???? they seemed so out of place in the Milkovich house it made me laugh. they were like good looking, clean, cute boys. I wonder how they know them and if they are friends... any ideas?
I think they were Ian's ROTC buddies? I can't be bothered to check the episode but I think that might be it. The Asian one seemed like he might be gay too (this is me stereotyping because of his clothing). I'm all for Ian and Mickey having friends, especially mutual friends. Also queer friends. Yay for Mickey expanding his support network :cheer:
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Jessica
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aka soulisthirsty
I think Fiona's storyline this season is definitely meant to be a redemption arc for her, last season she had that epiphany where she realized it's time to stop blaming their parents for everything going wrong in their lives and time to actually grow up and do something themselves to change it. And yeah, it's a very difficult spot to be in, because in a lot of ways she had to grow up too fast and in other ways she's still yet to grow up at all. I want her and Debbie to have a proper sisterly bond and to be friends, but at the same time, that might be difficult right now because Fiona is also relied upon to be the parent with no one else around.

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Jessica, I LOVE the part you wrote about Sean and I completely agree. I didn't even see anyone complaiging about it but then again I am kinda avoiding the shameless blogs atm just because it will just make me angry. But I also think it's great how aware he is of his current situation and how much he genuinely wants to be better and get better and improve. And he might have moments that bring out the old Sean but we could also see him reacting to that and see how much he wished he didn't react that way. I really really really hope that he won't throw it all away for Fiona.

lol well every now and then I take a peek at the Shameless Spoilers tag to see how other people have interpreted the scenes, helps me gain a better understanding, but sometimes it can be too much and I have to give it a break.

I think Sean has the potential to help Fiona see that it's okay to need help, I mean clearly the meetings mean a lot to him and he thinks they're very important and I WANT Fiona to feel that way about them too. They can be very therapeutic if you let them, and they can help you if you let them, but the Gallagher's are so anti-therapy of any kind that they don't take it seriously enough. Fiona crashed pretty badly last season and I think she needs more than just house arrest because she's still treating it as a mistake anyone could make rather than realizing the root of it is more complicated than that. And I feel like realizing you don't have to try and fix things by yourself is such a major theme this season, not just with Fiona but with Ian as well. And I'm sure by the time the season's over they won't be the only ones.

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I was also excited to hear she would be back for this season and now it's just kinda MEH everytime she is on screen. Because while Frank is not my favorite at least his scenes make me laugh. With Sammi it's just like the writers don't have a plan what to do with her? Her SL at this point just seems so pointless??? maybe that's just me but I hope she gets a decent SL this season.

Her scenes are SO PAINFUL this season and I hate that I feel like I'm being judgemental, I generally pride myself on being more understanding than that, but I just can't with this storyline. You can show Sammi having "daddy" issues in a way that doesn't involve her parading random guys around a house that doesn't even belong to her. You expect that kind of acting out from a teenager, not a full grown adult with a child of her own who didn't even know she had a dad until Frank showed up looking for a liver donor.

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Honestly though I do feel like the writers don't know what to do with her yet, it's kind of the way I felt about Sheila last season, like they were struggling to find a way to make her relevant and to have an excuse to keep the actress around and I figure it was the same with Emily Bergl.

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OMG, I never thought about it but that makes so much sense. Because when you binge watch something you just go to the next episode anddon't think about it too much because something better might follow and make you forget the previous episodes. But I have been weekly watching it since S1 so it's like... it's Shameless you know. You'll have episodes where something upsets you. But I honestly never felt "disappointed" in the show so I am like, let the writers do their job I have faith in them because they have been doing a superb job for 5 years now.

It's a lot of why I didn't ship Ian and Mickey until the kiss in the van, because I binge watched the two seasons before it and honestly didn't understand Mickey's character at all, I thought Ian deserved better, but after season three finished and I looked back on their other scenes I realized Mickey did care pretty much from the start, and after 3x06 it was so much easier to understand why he acted the way he did.

Obviously not all negativity is from new fans and not all negativity is even a bad thing. There's a difference between constructive criticism and hate. I enjoy reading constructive criticism, usually in small doses because reading too much at once can affect your enjoyment of a thing, but I don't enjoy reading hate, which can completely turn me off a show if that's all I ever see.

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I agree with you though, I was not expecting them to introduce the disorder RIGHT AFTER Mickey came out and they finally officially a couple and together. That was tough and that kind of really really really overshadowed their S4 SL for me. Because it was a really good SL overall and the character development was amazing even though Cam was only in half of the season. Noone will ever take S3 Ian and Mickey away from me though because that's my favorite. Like you I am here for the angst, and that's why I love their ship so much, so I am not really missin the intimacy. Because I am sure they are intimate off screen just like every other couple on the show. For me their ship was never about the sex but about how they kind of balance each other as characters. And that is still there for me. Maybe more strongly than ever because the tables have turned and I am so intrigued to see that. I want protective!Mickey and helpless!Mickey and all that. so I can't really complain about it tbh. and LIKE YOU, I lose interest in ships that are just there and kinda be couply all the time.

Season 3 was definitely special, I don't think a season finale will ever break me the way that one did. And the angst is what I love about their ship as well and I think it's what's made this ship so memorable for me and why it's impacted me the way it has. That's not to say I'm not a little disappointed when they have minimal interactions in an episode and a lack of romantic scenes - of course I am, especially when I see excessive scenes for someone else I really don't care for. But it's early and while they could be doing more we don't know what'll happen in the episodes we haven't seen yet.

Plus like you said Cam was gone most of S4 and the storyline progressed so much and was so incredible, sure people probably wanted to see more, I was very upset initially that we didn't get to see the aftermath of Mickey coming out and that we just jumped into the angst, but it was still SO GOOD. I mean damn this ship has some epic moments that just blow my mind every time and that's what I'm here for, that's what I want from them more than anything and I think we'll be getting a lot of that.

About the random friends they brought in for the Priest scam, I like Anette's theory that maybe they're Ian's ROTC friends. The first guy said something about how he was willing to screw another guy up, the second guy was wearing a shirt that said Chicago Fire Department, and the third - the one who agreed to help - came across patriotic. They all kind of fell into a similar category as one another and I could see them getting along with Ian and Mickey quite well, which is a shame since there's a good chance we won't see them again lmao.

Sorry this response is late I've been super busy but soon we'll have a new episode to discuss and I can't wait :D
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