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| 5.03 The Two Lisas | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 11 2015, 07:35 PM (1,116 Views) | |
| Nette | Jan 11 2015, 07:35 PM Post #1 |
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5.03 - The Two Lisas - Detailed Episode Synopsis - High Quality Episode Stills - Two Sneak Peeks Rate and discuss the episode! Which character stole the show this week? Favourite and least favourite scene? Funniest and/or saddest moment? |
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| Jessica | Jan 26 2015, 01:50 AM Post #2 |
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aka soulisthirsty
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Don't forget if you guys want to chat during the episode we have a chatbox set up here! I won't be able to watch it probably until tomorrow evening, but I hope you guys enjoy it tonight!
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| Nette | Jan 26 2015, 12:49 PM Post #3 |
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Admin
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Hmm where to start. Last night, before I'd seen the episode, I accidentally saw Cameron's tweet about Emma and Joan. I had no idea they were writing Sheila out of the show, either I've been good at avoiding spoilers or they've kept that secret. I'm alright with writing Sheila out, she's hilarious but she's had questionable plotlines most of the time. When it comes to Emma, we've assumed they wrote her out because of her schedule, which is fine. However, I am pissed that they decided to send her off with Kenyatta, making her the second teenage girl to be sent away with a complete douchebag. Unless we somehow find out later that she took off on her own, which would be better. Speaking of douchebags. Lip. Though we already knew that, but wow. Then again, the "girls can't rape boys" mindset is sadly very popular and according to most polls I've seen, this is what the majority of people think. Even girls. So sadly it's realistic. I'm glad that they at least portrayed it as wrong for once, I was actually surprised to see that (which is also sad). Not much to say on Ian and Mickey in this one. Though I did squeal a bit at Ian saying "boyfriend" And that purple shirt on Mickey looked way better on screen than on the set pics we've seen before I'd love to have seen Ian and/or Mickey try to talk to Mandy some more though. Lip and Mandy's "you are gorgeous" scene made me tear up a bit. That might have been my favorite this episode, I'm not sure. edit: Oh, I wanted to add something else. I've seen a lot of people say Debbie was OOC this episode and that she wouldn't rape anyone. The thing is, I don't necessarily agree. While I do agree that her jump from child to rebellious teen was very sudden in season 4, I don't think the rape scene was that OOC. It would have been something else if it was brutal, forceful and Matty was fully conscious and protesting, because then there'd be no doubt in Debbie's mind that it was non-consensual. However, Debbie didn't know that that counts as rape, as sad and depressing as that is. She's a child, she didn't know. A lot of adults still don't know that that's rape and that it's serious and that's fucked up (Example 1: Lip. Example 2: Sheila. Example 3: Mandy. Example 4: Ian. Example 5: Terry probably. etc etc.). The sex ed at their school is probably shitty too. Hopefully she'll learn from this and again, I'm glad they portrayed it as wrong, maybe Matty's reaction will open some viewers eyes on this because "girls can't rape boys" is a serious problem. Edited by Nette, Jan 26 2015, 01:18 PM.
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| Gilda | Jan 26 2015, 05:14 PM Post #4 |
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I feel like the show forgot Mandy and Ian are friends. They bately interacted in season 4, and instead of trying, he just goes to Lip? We could have had a scene in which ian begs mandy not to go: Ian: you have me and mickey. Your other brothers Mandy: no ian, just drop it Ian: this is bullshit!! Mandy: I'm sorry you dont understand. Please just leave me alone Ian: will you write me? Text? Mandy: of course ^ see? It could have been something like that |
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| Jessica | Jan 26 2015, 07:04 PM Post #5 |
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aka soulisthirsty
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I still haven't finished watching the episode since today's been a busy day for me and I haven't had a chance to sit and watch, but I was disappointed when I heard that Mandy was talking about leaving this episode and then just suddenly was gone. I was disappointed we didn't get to see a moment between her and Mickey, and a moment between her and Ian, when she left. I do think they probably filmed at least one, and it got cut, which really irritates me but I'm trying hard to be positive about this episode especially with me not having finished it yet so I'm not going to dote on it much right now. That being said, I think the reason Ian wanted Lip to talk to Mandy and convince her is because Mandy wouldn't listen to Mickey, she wouldn't listen to Ian, at least not as far as leaving Kenyatta goes. The fact is, Kenyatta was leaving with or without her, and as sad as it is to say Mandy wants to be with him. Not because she loves him, not because she isn't aware that he's abusive. Her denial that he'll do it again is really just a naive hope because she doesn't plan on giving him a reason to and she thinks that's enough. But Mandy doesn't want to be alone, romantically, and that's why I think Ian believed Lip could help. Mandy loves him, she would do anything for him even if her perception of what's best for him can sometimes be skewed (like running over Karen). Ian's told her before that she's beautiful, and though their friendship has been neglected in recent seasons, he has looked out for her. She knows Mickey would protect her too the minute she asked, but she's too proud to admit she's in an abusive relationship and too afraid of no one else wanting her. I think Ian was hoping Lip still cared about her and would be able to show her she doesn't have to settle for this, but he couldn't offer what she was really looking for and so she left. I mean, Mandy's been looking for a "knight in shining armour" to save her since day one. She was literally introduced on the show because of her gratitude toward Ian for helping her with their perverted teacher. She was drawn to him because he actually treated her the way she deserved to be treated, something she probably never thought she'd get to have. And he became her best friend, but that wasn't enough because what she wanted was someone to love her, really love her, and that's something she's yet to find. The truly sad thing is that Lip, despite treating her terribly at times, is the closest she's ever come to what she's been looking for and when she lost that she immediately turned to (I'm assuming) the first guy who showed an interest in her and never looked back. Her self-worth completely went out the window and she never rebuilt it. In a perfect world, Emma Greenwell wouldn't have had scheduling conflicts, the writers would have given her an actual storyline to work with, and Mandy Milkovich would have gotten the ending she deserved. But the actress did have other obligations and the writers have done this before, so it's disappointing but not at all surprising to have it happen again here. They even went as far as reminding us of Kenyatta's abuse, in the "previously on Shameless" and the all-too-brief conversation when Kenyatta first said they were leaving, so it's not as if they just forgot that he's abusive. They didn't want us to forget either, and I can't decide if that makes me feel worse or better. Would they do that if they never intended to bring her back? I don't know. They could have written Kenyatta as a good boyfriend last season and written her off this one, but instead they wrote him as abusive and made it clear the people closest to Mandy knew about it. I know consistent writing and characterization isn't always this shows strongest point, but I feel like that's setting it up for her to show up on their doorstep or for them to go looking for her. And that may not be the intention right now, but they've left it open. |
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| Shamelessly | Jan 27 2015, 02:45 AM Post #6 |
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Ok, well I voted this episode 'good' in the poll and that was pretty much purely for the ONE Ian and Mickey scene that we got. But I really enjoyed the scene as it was quite light hearted and Ian wasn't acting as manic as I thought he might be. To be fair I thought Ian had a good point, that house needed a good clean and was filled with such random crap. I also loved the little 'guest womb' joke between them, I feel like Mickey was just mad he didn't come up with that joke himself. Oh and the boyfriend reference. Right, now I've spoken about the only good part to the episode I guess I should get on with the bad. It felt like a weird episode to me, everything was ending if that makes sense. They had Mandy leave, Sheila leave and they chose this ep to finish with the rub 'n' tug as well. It felt like it was a mid-season finale or something. Firstly, I don't think they should have had Sheila and Mandy both leave in the same ep (whether they couldn't be helped or not I don't know) cos there wasn't room and clearly there was no time to focus on Mandy's exit but plenty of focus on Sheila's. As soon as we saw they had cut Mandy's exit (which I'm convinced they filmed cos of Ian supposedly crying) I immediately thought: 'oh well she must be coming back at some point then' and I still believe that. I really don't think they would have cut her exit if they didn't know she was going to come back at some point, whether it is next season or not. I was really annoyed we didn't get to see Mandy saying goodbye to Ian and Mickey but as I said they must be a reason they cut it, cos surely they could have cut something less significant out to make way for it. Their reason for them getting rid of the rub 'n' tug must be cos they have Kev busy with the babies and Mickey busy with Ian. I also think there may be a point to it for what Ian supposedly does later on (I'm still not fully sure of what it is that he gets up to) and maybe he does that cos he thinks they need the money (if the thing he does is for money). Although I thought Mickey was doing what he did in the first episode now, but clearly not, but he did get over 5 grand so they can't be that desperate for money yet. The whole Debbie thing I think is to illustrate how much of a child Debbie still is and this whole thinking you're a woman if you lose your virginity, when in actual fact it highlighted just how much of a child she is with her actions and her reaction to what she did. One of the most disturbing things for me was when Matty said it was date rape and all she heard was the word 'date' when she said "so it was a date?" I was like: erm WHAT?! But from what I've been reading, people have been making a good point, and I also thought this after seeing the episode, was that she has been obsessed with losing her virginity since last season and was friends with girls that were telling her all sorts of crazy things about sex that were mostly incorrect from what I can remember, but she was around them for a long time and them telling her having sex was the most important thing ever and sort of mocking her for not having had sex yet. Not that that's an excuse for what she did but I did expect the episode to be a lot worse than it was in regards to how it was going to be told and potrayed. Maybe they did have her act a little too naive but I think being around the girls she was with just seems to kind of brainwashed her, if that's a good way of putting it. So season 5 Debbie probably does think a lot differently now to season 3 Debbie. Also, that line of Lip's shocked me as well and I know this is Shameless so I get the stuff that goes on has to be just that, otherwise it wouldn't be called Shameless, but Lip saying loads of guys would love to be raped by her, just left me with one thought: WTF. Something small that irritated me as well was the fact that we see Sammi kissing a random guy, yet we are still to see Ian and Mickey kiss this season. I have to say, I do hope this season picks up. I quite enjoyed the first episode but 2 and 3 really haven't made me that excited or left me thinking, 'I really enjoyed that'. I know quite often with Shameless it does take a while for it to pick up but right now I'm feeling very meh towards the show and especially in regards to how little screen time Ian and Mickey are getting since ep1. Guess I'll just have to wait and see. It's a shame; maybe I was too excited about this season and just got my hopes up too much. Edited by Shamelessly, Jan 27 2015, 03:02 AM.
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| thewiseladysaid | Jan 27 2015, 03:39 AM Post #7 |
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Probably my two favorite parts of this episode were Sheila leaving and Fiona and Debbie's conversation. I couldn't have but feel a bit of joy at the way Sheila left Frank behind with nothing to tie her down and just the road before her. Joan's face during that scene was perfect and honestly if that was Shelia's exit, I think it was one of the better ones. I do hope we find out that she went to get Karen and they spend the rest of their days just traveling in that RV together with maybe a visit to the old neighborhood. I would consider that a happy ending for them. Fiona and Debbie discussion really hit me because I have been where Debbie has before. Not with the rape or even the sex, but I understand how it feels to have something happen to you and not know how you feel about it. And not wanting to explain yourself but have someone listen and just be there. I know the scene was shorter and people wanted a larger discussion between Fiona and Debbie and I get that but to me, that scene is being overlooked. I also am really glad that Matty clearly spelled out what Debbie did was not ok to her since we have had like 4 male rapes in this series already and no one was speaking out. I also like that he said "friends don't rape friends," because I think sometimes people forget that many rapes are not carried out by strangers but by people the victim knows. While I agree with what people are saying about Mandy deserving more of an exit I fully agree but her exit does not seem permanent. Emma Greenwell did not say she never wanted to come back so I doubt this is the end. Plus her scene with Jeremy was amazing. Really good acting there. |
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| Nette | Jan 27 2015, 04:10 PM Post #8 |
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I thought it would have been better to have the two exits in separate episodes as well, but maybe this was the only way that fit their schedules, idk. There was too much focus on Sheila's departure and too little on Mandy's. And like you, I'm convinced they filmed more, because unless Ian cried during the sex scene they also filmed then this was probably it. Sheila's departure was good though, a nice "fuck you" to Frank. I just wish they could have found more time for Mandy because her situation is way more serious than Sheila's, after all. Though I think the casual viewers might be more interested in Sheila than Mandy, idk. I don't mind them getting rid of the rub 'n' tug, I feel like that storyline had run its course. It's time for both Mickey and Svetlana to move on and find something else to do. Hopefully something a bit more legal, but who knows with these guys
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| Shamelessly | Jan 28 2015, 01:49 AM Post #9 |
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Yeah, I don't believe Ian cried during the sex scene, it was supposedly a nice scene wasn't it? So yeah, I'm convinced they cut her exit. I just hope they care enough to put it on the DVD deleted scenes. I did like Sheila's exit and thought it was fitting to the character and really what reason would Sheila even have for coming back? To be fair, realistically Sheila would have left in Season 3 and gone with Karen, why wouldn't she leave with her child and grandchild? I mean at that point she had nothing to stick around for apart from Frank maybe. I do wonder though if Sheila's exit had more focus because of the sake of the casual viewer or more because she's Joan Cusack, and Emma isn't that well known. Either way I think it was really quite offensive to Emma to cut it. But as I said in my previous post I would very surprised if they cut her exit and don't ever have her go back. Also, Mandy has a reason to go back, she has Ian and Mickey, and left with someone she may want to get away from at some point, unlike with Sheila, as I said, has no reason to return now. I'm not really bothered about the rub 'n' tug, I just realised they seemed to be ending a lot of things in that ep. Another thing I noticed and wondered about was one promo still from that ep where Mickey was handing something to the cop that arrested all the girls. That didn't happen, so I wonder if that was from another scene that got cut. Be interesting to see what crazy scheme Mickey comes up with next though for a way to make money. Edited by Shamelessly, Jan 28 2015, 01:50 AM.
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| mickeys | Jan 28 2015, 05:17 PM Post #10 |
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this was an average episode for me. i didn't really like the SLs we got this episode that's probably why FIONA - what a d1ck that guy from the band was. i am surprised she didn't leave right away. i like the new guy i guess. he at least doesn't seem like a total fuck up for once. the scene with him singing was SO freaking lovely, i got goose bumps. he has a great voice and that song was smazing too (do we know what song that was???) but I REALLY REALLY REALLY WISHED that Fiiona didn't make a move on him right away but wait and maybe go on a couple of dates first. which leads me to believe that this guy won't be in the picture for too long? idk. DEBBIE - that was such a shameless thing and i get that it fits the show but it was HORRIBLE to watch and i wish she wasn't that insecure (i mean i get it, I TOTALLY get it) but she is smart enough to know these things. for god's sake even carl knows what consent is. i am so sad because she can't go back from this and i am sad that matty won't be in her life anymore (i figure because really why would he want anything to do with her after this). i'm sad about everything that involves this SL. SAD! :((( LIP - meh. uhm i don't know i mean i wish he would have genuinely cared about mandy and could have prevented her from leaving. IAN - honey. loved the womb joke. loved that he asked Lip about Mandy, because at least SOMEONE made an effort. hope we see more of him dealing with Mandy leaving but i doubt it CARL - bless Carl, in all aspects. favorite. never change. SHEILA - good for you. i loved her in this episode and i loved that the ending finally made her realize what a fake and horrible person Frank is. I feel so bad for her and the house but that last scene was great. Even though I worry because she literally has no money and is just driving. I hope she will be back at some point??? I LOVE HER. FRANK - just stfu. just stfu. ((can we just talk about how Bill Macy FUCKING KILLED that rant at the end. that was brilliant and amazing acting. I loved it even thoguh everything about Frank is gross and horrible and no)) KEV & V: i am so worried i don't even know???? everything was kinda meh for me in general. I love Angie. (even though I only accidently found out that she was the woman with JimmySteve at the end of S4 i did not pick up on that AT ALL. so shocked tbh). I just want a canon bisexual Fiona Gallagher but I highly doubt it. |
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And that purple shirt on Mickey looked way better on screen than on the set pics we've seen before
I'd love to have seen Ian and/or Mickey try to talk to Mandy some more though.
Oh and the boyfriend reference.
which leads me to believe that this guy won't be in the picture for too long? idk. 
12:57 AM Jul 11