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| 5.07 Tell Me You F**king Need Me | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Feb 28 2015, 04:00 PM (1,388 Views) | |
| thewiseladysaid | Mar 2 2015, 08:56 PM Post #11 |
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It can be discouraging. I personally feel annoyed because as a Jimmy fan, I felt he was getting a second chance to come back and make things right. When realizing that is not what the writers had in mind at all that can be frustrating. I have said it before, I believe that Jimmy was just there as a representation of Fiona's bad choices and if she learns from this and starts paying attention to her family and making good decisions that is a good thing. I actually loved the scene of them talking together and I was happy that he left when she asked him too. The only thing is I wished they had not included that Angela scene. It seemed so forced in whamming the audience over the head that Jimmy is a "bad guy." C'mon this is Shameless there are no bad or good guys or girls here (except for Terry). I did hear a theory that maybe Jimmy told Angela to say that to Fiona to reinforce the idea that she should let him go. I am holding onto that. Edited by thewiseladysaid, Mar 2 2015, 08:56 PM.
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| Jessica | Mar 2 2015, 08:57 PM Post #12 |
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aka soulisthirsty
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I've been kind of like that too, at least with some of the scenes in this storyline. I feel like the writers are trying to make Kev seem gross to level the playing field with Veronica coming across as a bad mother who doesn't care about her kids, when in reality Veronica was overwhelmed and feeling unloved and Kev was making her feel guilty for that. I don't hate the storyline, I just hate some of the ways it's been portrayed. Kev spending an entire day looking for a strange woman to cheat on Veronica with when he can't even go out on a date night with her? Kev actually allowing Svetlana to talk him into letting her go down on him? Hell, Kev paying attention at all to the women trying to give him an orgasm when he couldn't even give that same courtesy to Veronica when she tried to do the same thing? Gross, gross, gross. Those scenes were more painful to watch than Veronica grinding against some guy on the dance floor or poking guys she knew in highschool on Facebook, and not in the tug-at-your-heartstrings way. I mean, I get that this is a realistic development for their story, and some scenes I've liked and felt were relevant. Like in this episode, you can see Kev getting just as frustrated with the twins as Veronica was after having to deal with them day in and day out with no break in between and while being stressed out. I feel like that was an important and necessary scene. I also liked the scene where Veronica was coming back to the apartment above the bar and you could tell she was just feeling really lonely and thoughtful and second guessing everything about her life in that moment. It was a powerful scene. But the ones I mentioned above are just being done for shock value and like I said, probably to make Veronica seem more sympathetic, but all it's really achieving for me is making me not like Kev and that makes me sad. Let's wrap this storyline up before irreparable damage is done, please? (I say that now but one heartwarming scene and the return of Kev's unwavering devotion and love will probably go a long way regardless of what still might happen in future episodes.) |
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| Nette | Mar 2 2015, 09:20 PM Post #13 |
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Admin
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!!!! This! Like dude, if you have time for all of that then you have the time to take your wife out on a date or, I don't know, have sex with her every once in a blue moon. And everyone making V feel bad and saying that she should go crawling back to Kev before she loses him is a little ugh, because why is she the villain for not wanting to be completely neglected? I know he wants someone who ~understands~ his love for babies, but I'm convinced that if Kev managed to spread his love and affection more equally then V would find it easier to be around their kids. And yeah, I think we might get to see Kev becoming more stressed out when dealing with them on his own (or without V there, idk what Svetlana is going to do now when she's hanging around). I don't want to dislike Kev, so I hope they start fixing this pretty soon. |
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| Jessica | Mar 2 2015, 10:12 PM Post #14 |
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aka soulisthirsty
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I thought I was the only one who found that scene to be forced In general, I feel like most of Jimmy's characterization was off this season and it all felt like it was forced for the sake of portraying him as a bad decision, like you said. Maybe it's just been a while since I saw the third season and this is actually a natural progression considering the time that's passed and what he's been up to since, I don't know, but spelling out for us in that scene with Angela what an asshole Jimmy apparently is felt unnecessary and over the top to me. Yeah, Jimmy's done some serious asshole moves, but let's not put him in the same category as guys like Robbie. Fiona and Jimmy's relationship has never been that way and Jimmy has never treated her like that. He's just screwed up too much and grown up too little to be a good choice. I don't know, I think the writers just erased the good parts of Jimmy's characterization and emphasized the bad parts to show why he and Fiona wouldn't work, but all that really did was hurt the Jimmy fans and annoy the anti-Jimmy fans who didn't need to see that to feel Fiona deserved better. And I mean, like you said if Fiona does learn from this experience, then at least that's one good thing that can come from it. I'm also hoping that Gus taking some time to himself will give Fiona time to reflect on her priorities. If she decides she wants to be with him and work things out with him, that's fine, I'm not against her being in a relationship that makes her happy, but I am against her running away from her problems instead of working them out and that's basically what her relationship with Gus is right now, right down to him not waking her up when her phone went off despite knowing that Ian was missing and that was probably a phone call she'd happily sacrifice sleep to get.
Exactly! I mean, okay, so Kev was a little overprotective about leaving his kids with a stranger, but you're going to tell me he wouldn't trust Veronica's mom to watch them for even a few hours while he and Veronica had a night out? A lot of Veronica's frustration with Kev doesn't just come from the fact that she was watching the kids all day every day until he got home from the bar, it also comes from the fact that all the sympathy, attention and affection that she needed from him was being given to their kids while he continually neglected her. And that gradually fostered resentment towards the kids, which yeah, might seem irrational to an outsider, but Veronica was hurt and felt gross and insecure in their relationship and that only built the more Kev tried to force the kids on her. I had also hoped that we'd see Kev and Veronica kind of gain a better understanding of the other side while being apart, with Vee starting to miss Kev and her girls, and Kev starting to get stressed out dealing with them on his own, so that when they came back together they'd actually be able to compromise and work things out. But now with Svetlana moving in and basically doing everything Kev wanted Veronica to do and more, I'm a little skeptical. I'm just hoping he starts to find Svetlana overbearing and starts missing the things Veronica did (and didn't) do. I'm also really not impressed with Svetlana this episode, I found the way she asserted herself into his life kind of gross and I'm struggling to look at it critically. She had no intention of letting him refuse her moving in, she shows up on his doorstep with her suitcase and starts doing everything Vee refused to, which, you know, I might have been able to accept as her wanting to ensure she had a roof over her head now that she felt the Milkovich house wouldn't be safe anymore. But I 100% draw the line at her extending her "wifely duties" to initiating sexual acts on a married man with no consent. Could he have stopped her and was he gross for eventually allowing her to continue, yes. Does that make what she did any less wrong, no, not when he woke up and tried to get her to stop and she not only persisted but she went on to persuade him to allow it to happen again. And in my opinion the ONLY reason she did that is because he told her she could only stay for a few days, until Veronica came back, and Svetlana wanted to sweeten the deal while also probably trying to prevent that from happening so she could better her own circumstances and be with a doting father who owns a business instead of a gay husband who will always choose Ian over her. I mean, I try really hard to understand Svetlana and be sympathetic toward her, but that can only go so far. I realize that she's a character who is used to using sex and her body to manipulate men, which is where she struggled with Mickey who couldn't be manipulated that way. And maybe I should be more understanding given the fact that she was sold into the sex trade at an impressionable age and this is the life she's always known, and she's trying to look out for her baby and blah blah insert every other Svetlana justification here, but right now I'm really just not. If someone wants to try and help me see otherwise, I'm all ears, but I just don't think I can. Edited by Jessica, Mar 2 2015, 10:22 PM.
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| Jules | Mar 3 2015, 03:09 AM Post #15 |
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Thank you for sharing this theory, haha The two of them sitting on the curb and talking was the perfect farewell to Jimmy (aka "Whatever the hell your name is") and I was pissed that they ruined the whole thing straightaway. Although I have to agree that his appearance wasn't absolutely necessary for the continuation of Fiona's storyline this season, I personally needed his character to come back and sort things out with her. I always felt that they weren't finished. Edited by Jules, Mar 3 2015, 03:58 AM.
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| Jessica | Mar 5 2015, 02:43 PM Post #16 |
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aka soulisthirsty
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I walked into this episode expecting a more epic follow up to the last episode, especially with us waiting a week in between, and I think that in addition to some of the very frustrating and/or gross things (i.e. Svetlana blowing Kevin, Debbie's casual and remorseless reference of her raping someone, etc.) made me feel more negatively about this episode than it deserves. It wasn't mindblowing by any means but there were a lot of things I did enjoy that I'm going to try to focus on now, for the sake of my sanity and the sanity of anyone who has been reading too many negative comments and needs a breather. Carl and Chuckie - For all my complaints about Sammi's unnecessary additions to the story, I do find her kid kind of adorable at times and his scenes with Carl were an example of that. I know technically Carl was looking out for Chuckie because of his agreement with Sammi, and because he was gettng something out of it, but it reminded me a lot of the typical older brother/annoying little brother dynamic. Plus, if Chuckie had to worship anyone in the Gallagher family, Carl is certainly more deserving of that attention than Frank who doesn't give a shit. Debbie and Derek - My thoughts about Debbie this episode are somewhat of a double edged sword. Throughout the entire series it has been a recurring theme for Debbie to try and change herself into the image she thinks people would like, whether it's her friends or the boys she's interested in. She did it with Little Hank, she did it with Holly and Ellie, she did it with Matty, and she started to do that with Derek before finally realizing in this weeks episode that she's worth more than that and she doesn't have to change for anyone. She's fine just the way she is and if they can't see that, it's their loss. Although I disagree with rape being used as a plot device in this way and I think it's gross, I think it's clear that it was the breaking point for Debbie. It was the moment she realized she had done everything she's been told or shown that would make a boy like her and in the end it made him hate her because she took advantage of him, she had sex with him while he was barely conscious despite him making it clear multiple times he wasn't interested in her that way. It would go a long way if the writers would show Debbie feeling some remorse over her actions rather than making it all about her, because young or not, a girl or not, she was not the victim in that situation. But, at the very least, I feel like this was a step in the right direction and maybe once Debbie starts feeling more confident in herself she can stop hiding from the gravity of what she's done. I'm not particularly optimistic on that front but I don't think it's impossible either, so we'll see. Lip - I found his scenes this week to be bittersweet. He's slowly gravitating further and further away from his siblings, forming his own life away from them, right down to getting his own mailbox so he doesn't have to worry about mail going missing at home. He was supposed to meet Fiona and Mickey at the pysch ward to see Ian, but clearly never made it, and of course I understand he had bigger things to worry about but you know this is only the beginning of what will soon become a trend for Lip. Last season we saw him struggling to balance his home life with his college life, because of Fiona going on a bender and his siblings needing him at home. This season we're definitely seeing him make a choice between the two worlds, and choosing his home life less and less as he forms a life on his own. It's an inevitable move, but it is sad to see. Fiona and Mickey - They barely had any scenes together and yet I loved it. I loved every second of it. You have Mickey waiting for Fiona because he didn't want to go in by himself. You have Fiona sharing a little of her personal experience with pysch wards. You have Mickey kind of awkwardly stating his relationship to Ian and then glancing over at Fiona, who smiles and just has this look on her face like it was kind of nice to hear but wow kind of weird to hear it from Mickey Milkovich because who would've thought that'd be a thing, him and Ian? Who would've thought the dirty, sweaty kid who practically busted down her door looking for Frank a few years ago would be dressed up in nice clothes and clean and referring to her kid brother as his boyfriend with a completely straight face? You can tell the novelty of it hasn't wore off for her yet and that Mickey is still probably surprising her more and more with each interaction they have. And the scene when they're waiting for Ian is everything I love and need more of. Mickey trying so hard to ignore the guy staring at him before finally giving up and telling him to back off. Fiona giving him a little kick and a dirty look that is a perfect mix of a big sister and a mother, and Mickey, looking properly scolded, trying to apologize for being mean. I honestly think it's my favourite scene of the whole episode, I love Fiona treating him like family and Mickey just soaking it all up. I love how, when Ian left without saying goodbye, Mickey was understandably confused and hurt and we weren't shown his face, I don't even think Fiona saw it at the time, but she just knew. She'd been there before, and she knew how that felt and she tried to make him feel better by explaining it was the sedative but when Mickey wanted to leave she understood he needed that and she let him. I just, I don't know, I miss seeing Fiona act like that, looking out for other people and being nurturing and caring, and it made me incredibly happy to see her be that way with Mickey. Ian - I know a lot of people were upset with how his time in the psych ward was handled, initially I was as well, but I think it makes sense. Sure, they could have showed us more, I would have liked that, but he's still in denial of his illness and feeling trapped and like he doesn't belong in that place and that's what his scenes this week were about. Waking up, the lunchline, speaking to his therapist, the visit with Mickey and Fiona, the wandering in his room that night - he does not want to be there, and that's what his scenes in the psych ward were about. He's not quite on the path to recovery yet and it's going to continue being painful to watch. Mickey - I loved every second of his drunk scene, but it broke my heart to watch. Not even because of the scene where Mickey is clutching Ian's army jacket and clearly thinking about him and missing him, but because of how empty and lifeless the house felt when he came home. The Milkovich house has always been portrayed as kind of dark and dingy and unwelcoming, but the life Mickey and Ian were building for themselves, with Mickey's siblings and Svetlana and Yevgeny, it turned it into a home. For a long time, the only person Mickey really had in his life was Ian, because Ian was the only one he could be himself with and who didn't judge or look down on him. But allowing himself to be with Ian properly opened up this whole new world where Mickey didn't have to hide from anyone anymore. Yet it's almost symbolic in a way that the moment Ian is out of the picture, however temporary it may be, the happiness in Mickey's life just kind of drains away. Mandy's left for Indiana, Iggy is god knows where, Svetlana has moved out and taken Yevgeny with her, and all that's left is an empty house that no longer feels like home. And truthfully, even if it wasn't empty, it would probably feel just as lonely because Ian is Mickey's home. Whether it's at the Milkovich house or the Gallagher house or some stranger's loft, Mickey only truly feels at home with Ian beside him. And that's why it's so hard for Mickey, because when he saw Ian at the psych ward, he was not only disoriented but he was fixated on Yevgeny, he barely acknowledged or looked at Mickey at all and then he got up and left without saying goodbye. Mickey was comforting himself with the knowledge that Ian would only be gone a few days, but after basically feeling as though he was rejected, he couldn't handle it anymore. And all this foreshadowing with the army this season is killing me, because you know it's likely they'll just start to get back to that level of happiness they had at the beginning of the season when the army catches up with Ian.
I didn't like that either, like you said it began as the perfect farewell for his character and it felt like it had come full circle to that person he was at the beginning of the series. The rest of the scene felt forced and wasn't really necessary, it was really just a slap in the face to the fans who do still like Jimmy and who were happy to see him return, if only for a short while. I feel like he was just kind of brought back to make it seem like Fiona is making a good choice by flirting with her boss or marrying a guy she's barely known a week, and he was portrayed as an asshole and bad choice to make Fiona's marriage seem like a good one in comparison. And I just hate writing like that, personally. Her other relationships this season are superficial at best and making the one developed relationship she had in the show look bad doesn't change that. I mean, I'm still holding out the hope that we see proof that Fiona's been in denial this whole season and believing she's making the right choices when she's actually not, but I don't even know at this point and I was over her storyline a few episodes ago. Her best scenes have been the ones with her family or the ones with her friends. Edited by Jessica, Mar 5 2015, 02:58 PM.
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In general, I feel like most of Jimmy's characterization was off this season and it all felt like it was forced for the sake of portraying him as a bad decision, like you said. Maybe it's just been a while since I saw the third season and this is actually a natural progression considering the time that's passed and what he's been up to since, I don't know, but spelling out for us in that scene with Angela what an asshole Jimmy apparently is felt unnecessary and over the top to me. Yeah, Jimmy's done some serious asshole moves, but let's not put him in the same category as guys like Robbie. Fiona and Jimmy's relationship has never been that way and Jimmy has never treated her like that. He's just screwed up too much and grown up too little to be a good choice. I don't know, I think the writers just erased the good parts of Jimmy's characterization and emphasized the bad parts to show why he and Fiona wouldn't work, but all that really did was hurt the Jimmy fans and annoy the anti-Jimmy fans who didn't need to see that to feel Fiona deserved better.

12:57 AM Jul 11