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5.10 South Side Rules
Topic Started: Mar 22 2015, 11:56 AM (1,092 Views)
Jessica
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aka soulisthirsty
aleppulido
 
-sorry, i still dont get how the whole quoting thing works.-
That's okay! :) Usually what I do is open the new post page in a separate tab so I can copy + paste the section I want to quote and just wrap it in quote tags, which are these:

Code:
 
[quote]Quoted text[/quote]

Or if you want to put their username in like I sometimes do when replying to multiple people:

[quote=username]Quoted text[/quote]

Or you can just push the "quote" button that's above the post you're composing.

aleppulido
 
I really think that she's gonna help Lip apreciate where he's at and what he's really able to do at college, and teaching him all of this different things and stuff. I really miss season 4 Lip, i miss the kinda reckless Lip, breaking car windows with a pipe, but i feel like he's come quite a long way. I dont really like the fact that they're taking Amanda out, because i believe she helped Lip in lots of different ways, and i think she helped create this Lip we see now.

I think you're probably right, and I get that she's probably meant to be a sort of mentor which is fine, but like you I don't really like that they're taking Amanda out because I know realistically that means moving Lip to yet another woman - in this case Helene, since a female character with Lip can never just be a friend or role model. He can never just be a single college student, and I just get tired of developing his conquests only to ship them off when he's through with them. Especially when they were actual characters long before he got into their pants, like with Mandy and Karen.

I do think that between being in college and "dating" Amanda, Lip's been introduced to a whole new world that he's discovering he wants to be a part of. And he got a glimpse into his future when he met her dad, who was probably just like him back in the day. I kind of miss the Lip who used to use his brains to scam the system, since I felt like that was an integral part of his character, but putting that and his reckless side to rest is part of growing up I guess.

aleppulido
 
I think things have gone completely terrible for Debbie this season, but like, she's not being really conciuos 'bout what she's doing, first raping matty, which i dont think people talk much about, and now this??? I feel like, she needs to be taken care of and apreciated more, but also someone needs to really show her how wrong she's doing.

The problem I think is that nobody is actually recognizing that she's doing anything wrong. When she raped Matty, Lip brushed it off with a comment that was an attempt at sibling solidarity and if Fiona knows about it, she's certainly never mentioned it. She was apparently told off screen about Debbie's boyfriend, so I can't imagine she wouldn't also know about Matty and she just... doesn't care. As far as fans go, talking about that just makes them upset because it hasn't been handled the way they wanted it to be, but you'll see comments about it resurface whenever Debbie references it. Like when she was confessing to Derek and brought it up. I feel like it's just one of those things everyone's trying to forget about because otherwise they'd be even more annoyed by Debbie's characterization and the show as a whole.

aleppulido
 
I really don't get sammi, like i get that she's mad and all, but like carl is already in jubie, so why would she do that to Ian, amd i guess she sorta sees her mistake right away when Ian asks her why.
Julie
 
I mean I know she was doing it to get back at them for Chuckie getting arrested, but Carl did too. That wasn't enough?

Figured I'd reply to both in one go lol. I think the issue with Carl is that not only was HE happy to be going to juvie, but the Gallagher's just kind of brushed it off by saying it was bound to happen, oh well, let's go home and pack some stuff for him. It didn't really compare to the fear and sadness that Sammi felt for Chuckie being arrested and going to jail, because let's face it, that kid could barely survive school bullies. Can you imagine juvie, for him? So even though it didn't make sense on one hand for her to go after Ian of all people, because I do think they had a genuine bonding moment for a minute there, she was just looking for something that would hurt Fiona the way she'd been hurt. And Ian unfortunately just gave her the quickest means to do it. It's kind of sad when you think about it, how little they cared about Carl going to juvie, although part of that may have been influenced by him screwing up intentionally in court to make sure he got there.

aleppulido
 
I really feel like they're missing the whole point of Frank being sober, like someone said already, like he's known to be a better father when he's sober, but he's not really around. I think Bianca is just another Dotie, she's gonna end up dead real soon and Frank might feel something, but i feel like their whole thing won't last long.

I had heard from interviews and spoilers that this season would be the first time Frank was completely sober, so I was actually kind of looking forward to what they would do with that. ...and then we opened the season with him trying to make his own beer. Seriously? He was still drinking. He was still doing drugs and getting wasted. What we saw last night, when he looked at his glass of beer and then left it practically untouched? That's what I was waiting for at the BEGINNING of the season, or hell, even just after he was hospitalized for not taking his meds properly.

Julie
 
I definitely think the Frank/Bianca stuff should've had more build up. When I first read the spoilers about her before the season and how he would ~fall in love for the first time~ with her, I definitely thought it would be a bigger storyline this season. But she just randomly shows up toward the end of the season, and he's suddenly in love with her... I like Bianca so far, but I just can't bring myself to care about Frank scenes

Pretty much exactly how I feel. It would have been better to introduce her earlier in the season, cut back on the Frank and Sammi scenes which were honestly the worst scenes for me this season, and given Sammi something different to work with. Now that we're approaching the finale, even though I actually kind of like the scenes with Bianca and Frank because it's way better than anything else Frank would be doing, I just... don't want to focus that much on it. I'm more worried about how we're going to partially wrap up all these storylines in time for the finale.

Julie
 
The Kevin/Veronica scene was nice, but their whole storyline this season felt kind of forced and maybe a little rushed? to me

My biggest issue with that storyline was the fact that Veronica was upset because Kev focused more on the twins than her, but then we literally see him move into the dorm with Lip and say he gets them only one night a week, we see him involved in various acts of sex with multiple women when Veronica couldn't even get him to focus on her when she was giving him a bj. It just made it hard for me to care about them despite some of the nice scenes they had, because the conflict felt so forced, like let's separate Kev and Vee so he can go out and have fun while Veronica can't even bring herself to go through with a date. It just made Kev really gross to me and I'm sure I'll forget about it once they're back together because, honestly, I'm not overly invested in them anyway so I'm pretty laidback when it comes to their scenes. I only noticed it more this year because it was stupid.

Julie
 
Ian and Mickey singing was everything :lol: and then Ian wanting to go on a real date, how cute were they :love: Of course they can never be happy for a whole episode :cloud: That kiss was hot. But yeah it's a bit ridiculous that we only get fade to black sex scenes with them. I'm not sure why every time they kiss or have sex has to be during some big moment or ~important to the storyline, when it doesn't have to for the other characters. I'm pretty Debbie and her new boyfriend have already kissed more onscreen than Ian and Mickey have in the entire show...

I was saying on the shoutbox that this whole starcrossed lovers thing is getting ridiculous, they can never just be together. I mean I'm all for conflict, and they had a lot to work through this season, but I feel like it's gotten half the screentime it actually deserved and it seems like they struggle to balance scenes where they're apart and scenes where they're together. It's always either or. And I think Mickey has spent more time with Ian's family than he has with Ian, lol.

And I mean, look at last season. We had to learn that they were having sex by Mickey shouting it at his dad, because it sure as hell wasn't shown. And to me at least because Mickey was trying to "win" Ian back for lack of a better way to describe it, it was kind of important to see that they were comfortable enough to be doing that. I mean, I guess we could assume, after that first scene in Ian's bedroom and Mickey staying over night, but we shouldn't have to all the time. And I mean, again, I wouldn't care, except there are times when it's actually important to the plot that we still haven't seen it and there are times when it's not important to the plot or relevant AT ALL for other characters and we're forced to sit through it, grumbling about the amount of screentime it's unnecessarily taking up. That's what frustrates me.

Julie
 
Need more Lip/Joaquin and less of Lip and all of his love interests

Also more Fiona/Veronica, Fiona/Gallagher's, and Fiona/her fellow waitresses and less of all her love interests. Maybe take some solo Fiona time too to get her shit straightened out. After paying the bills and picking up groceries, that is.
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shaneless botwin

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Not quite sure how I feel about Ian and Mickey beating each other up, but it happened for the exact reason I thought it would. It made sense that Ian would feel annoyed and suffocated, it was just painful to watch.


Okay, here's how I feel about Ian and Mickey in 5.10, starting with the fight scene. I actually liked it. It made complete sense for me, as some of you guys pointed out, that Ian picked on Mickey to get a rise from him; and I didn't think it was a bad thing. I mean, look at their relationship so far, they've always been somewhat aggressive towards each other, like a love on the verge of violence kind of relationship. The first time they had sex they were in the middle of a fight. That other time when Mickey beat Ian up after the marriage argument, it was, to me, as if he was punching him because he felt angry at Ian for how much he made him like him, for the strong, undeniable, and inconvenient impression Ian caused on him. And most times when they flirt or f*ck it has a playful fight kind of thing before.

I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing, it's just how they work. And it works. They are both equally strong so they can defend themselves, and they get sh*t out of their systems that way, by fighting physically instead of orally. So the fight scene didn't bother me at all. Ever since the bipolarity 'became a real thing', Mickey started to change his behavior towards Ian, and that was ironically bad for him because Ian had already been numbed about every thing else in his life so he needed Mickey to change back into the violent, tough-love ghetto Mickey to make him feel again, like he clarifies after the fighting. In my opinion, the dialogue leading up to the fight was just right and the whole scene (the fight included) was touching and romantic in the couple's own way (please don't think I'm weird).

Now about the sex scenes. I disagree with some of you who argued that, if the producers are not willing to show Ian and Mickey's sex scenes, they should at least dial down all of the straight people's sex scenes. I think all sex scenes, no matter how unnecessary some of them are, define the show. Like they're shamelessly showing all the sex they can, and if the sex scenes' whole point is to showcase Emmy's boobs or everyone else's, so be it. But what they should do is show the gay sex scenes as well. And I really don't get this, because those scenes existed up to some point. Once of the things I instantly liked about Shameless was that they were not afraid to include explicit scenes of Ian and Mickey having sex before. Okay, now that I think of it, most of the shown sex was interrupted because they got caught by someone in the middle, but still. I mean, the actors have chemistry, they don't seem to mind being intimate with each other, and the show has a huge gay fan base, so I don't think the viewers are gonna be angry about it. So does anybody know why they choose to cut the scenes whenever given the chance? (That's an actual question haha)
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Jessica
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aka soulisthirsty
I think my biggest issue with the fight wasn't that it was out of character, per se, because Ian's emotions were heightened, he was very frustrated, it made sense for him to lash out and even for them to fight a little. But I feel like the fight itself was extremely aggressive in a way they've never fought before, and the violence felt forced to me as a result, like they always have to be bloodied up before they can really be happy and even then it's always shortlived. I also had an issue with the language Ian used, because although he's used it once or twice in the past, it was never in that context and I feel like that is problematic with Mickey's history of abuse and internalized homophobia as a result of his dad. The fight just felt more hateful than angry to me, which is a lot of what made me uncomfortable with it personally. I do however think that as you said, Ian and Mickey have always resorted to communicating physically, be it fighting or sex or whatever, and your interpretation of the scene I believe is what the writers were hoping viewers would take away from it. I think that Ian just has so much anger pent up, not only about how he's being treated as a result of his condition but for having bipolar disorder to begin with, and I think Mickey did recognize that after the fight was through because he understands how Ian feels, he's been there before. The last time we saw violence on this level between the two of them was 3.11, when Mickey was terrified and overwhelmed, and I think he recognizes those feelings in Ian now. I mean, I can somewhat understand from a storytelling point of view what they were trying to accomplish with the scene, and I get that it was probably meant as an outlet for all the frustration they're both feeling from their happiness being cut short, Ian feeling like everyone is treating him differently now and Mickey feeling like Ian's not appreciative of him basically being the caring boyfriend Ian wanted for three seasons, and maybe that's supposed to be the reason for the extent of how aggressive they were with one another. But looking at it that way doesn't really change my initial gut reaction.

I have edited this section of the post like 20+ times because I have such mixed feelings about it, I need to stop lol.

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But what they should do is show the gay sex scenes as well. And I really don't get this, because those scenes existed up to some point. Once of the things I instantly liked about Shameless was that they were not afraid to include explicit scenes of Ian and Mickey having sex before. Okay, now that I think of it, most of the shown sex was interrupted because they got caught by someone in the middle, but still. I mean, the actors have chemistry, they don't seem to mind being intimate with each other, and the show has a huge gay fan base, so I don't think the viewers are gonna be angry about it. So does anybody know why they choose to cut the scenes whenever given the chance? (That's an actual question haha)
Honestly, I don't know. If you ask the more pessimistic fans they'll say it's because the writers are afraid of turning off their heterosexual male audience, which they believe the show caters to despite the fact that as you pointed out there is a huge gay fanbase as well. There's no female nudity in gay sex, so why focus on it unless it's relevant to the plot, right? If you ask the more optimistic fans, they'll tell you it's because Ian and Mickey's relationship used to always be about sex but now it's not and they're choosing to focus on the emotional aspect of their relationship. Honestly, I don't know what to think myself as far as the writers reasoning goes. The first few seasons I know it was an issue because of Cam being underage, and season 3 was the first time they showed them more explicitly. But that episode was also followed up with a horrifying and traumatic experience when Terry walked in, so it was necessary not to cut away from it like they usually would.

Maybe it's just as simple as the amount of screentime they're willing to devote to Ian and Mickey's characters, which is split between individual scenes, their scenes together, and their scenes with other characters. I feel like this season they had more scenes by themselves or with Ian's family than they did together, which is probably in large part due to Ian having a major storyline this season. Rather than take screentime away from other characters or scenes (some of which I feel the show would have benefitted from cutting, personally) they just pick what they think is the most important to tell Ian and Mickey's story this season and cut the rest.

Anyway, the official reasoning from the writers I've heard is that they claim to only show sex scenes that are relevant to the plot, which in my opinion is just an excuse because we've had a lot of unnecessary sex scenes where nothing would have been changed if the characters weren't having sex. And if they can get those scenes when it's barely relevant to the plot, why can't Ian and Mickey when they're an established (and sexually active) couple that have technically been together in one way or another since the beginning of the show? I mean, we can make all the excuses we want, there's always something to blame, but at the end of the day that's the writers doing as well because they're incapable of allowing this couple to be happy for long. I feel like they're really determined to go the Starcrossed Lovers route with these two, in that something is always in the way of their relationship and their happiness. I mean it's not like other couples have been the epitome of happiness themselves, but nobody can deny that Ian and Mickey's happiness has the shortest lifespan of the bunch.
Edited by Jessica, Mar 29 2015, 04:52 PM.
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