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| Some Khamraev links | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Mar 29 2015, 03:35 PM (1,486 Views) | |
| Karl | Mar 29 2015, 03:35 PM Post #1 |
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troubadour
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Just as I'm beginning to explore Khamraev's films myself, coverage of a Khamraev retrospective at a film festival in Mexico City this year from David Walsh, my favorite living film critic: "Tackling life head on: The films of Uzbek-Soviet director Ali Khamraev" http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2015/03/28/fic4-m28.html "I Remember You: A comment on the history of his film by director Ali Khamraev" http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2015/03/28/irem-m28.html (one of Marxist critic Walsh's earlier dispatches from the same festival mentions J. M. Straub's new film as well, under the heading "Jean-Marie Straub, or the radical blockheaded as filmmaker" - I'm not alone!) and the Gene Siskel Center in Chicago's overview, "Uzbek Rhapsody: The Films of Ali Khamraev" http://www.siskelfilmcenter.org/uzbekrhapsody and a not particularly enthusiastic overview from a fellow named Robert Bird that has a fair share of vaguely insulting remarks ("One is tempted to classify his films as provincial imitations") followed by a few backhanded compliments ("However, Khamraev does display elements of a distinct individual style"): "Uzbek Elegy: The Films of Ali Khamraev" http://www.artmargins.com/index.php/6-film-a-video/632-uzbek-elegy-the-films-of-ali-khamraev Edited by Karl, Mar 31 2015, 02:53 PM.
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| Crusades are gone out of fashion for the moment and the only warfare at present worthy of the name is the bloodless crusade against fools. - Norman Douglas | |
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| serri | Mar 29 2015, 04:45 PM Post #2 |
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omg i'm so disappointed. he put a modest amount of effort into the horse money part, touching upon plot points at least! i guess i should have suspected there were problems with the bland and rote descriptions of historical events but like... the straub part he's just copy-pasting an (already cursory) review of workers, peasants! and after that he gives a sliver of a three line description of kommunisten and doesn't even mention the other straub film he claimed to have seen in an earlier dispatch. there's nothing to react to let alone critique! |
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| Karl | Mar 30 2015, 12:02 AM Post #3 |
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troubadour
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Serriform - I have a response, but will post over in the Straubhuillet thread, because this one's called "Ali Khamraev" (and Walsh's thoughts on Khamraev are, I think, worth reading). But I do enjoy that no matter what I'm talking about - in an earlier instance it was a long post about Eugene Green's PONT DES ARTS, here it's about Ali Khamraev - all I have to do is mention Straubhuillet and their defenders come leaping out with knives to totally ignore everything else I wrote about and berate me for the (intentional, I must confess - like I said, I do enjoy it) negative slip about Straubhillet. Admirably militant fans this pair has! Were someone here to write something insulting about Bresson or Mizoguchi I'm not sure that I'd do much more than shrug. But I'm glad we refrained from personal attacks this time. That's progress. Edited by Karl, Mar 30 2015, 12:19 AM.
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| Crusades are gone out of fashion for the moment and the only warfare at present worthy of the name is the bloodless crusade against fools. - Norman Douglas | |
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| Eliecer | Mar 30 2015, 03:25 AM Post #4 |
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g legs' homie
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Not surprised in the slightest that David Walsh is your favorite living film critic, Karl. But I’m surprised you changed your username to Hugh Selwyn Mauberley. I’m going to assume that’s your favorite Ezra Pound. Mine are the Pisan Cantos. Having sat through a post-screening sermon by David Walsh once, I can assure you that there is no critic who wails and complains more about the decadence of art (and of society in general), all the while making a living and name from his denunciations. But I’m glad you’ve finally found a critic who reinforces your opinion, Karl. To be honest I was hoping that unlike Walsh, you would read Barton Byg’s book and Tag Gallagher’s essays on Straub-Huillet and then proceed to dismiss Straub-Huillet from an informed position. Walsh’s accusations of "messianism" and “non-emotion” are proof that he has not invested the time to read what his colleagues have written on Straub-Huillet. If like Walsh you choose not to devote the time, then I hope you will admit that we are merely arguing within a vacuum of conflicting tastes. And taste, I’m sure you’ll agree, is entirely subjective. Taste leads to diatribes when it is offended; therefore taste is useless as a well for solid criticism. A “sorry, this Straub-Huillet shit just ain't my thing” will suffice to communicate your contempt instead of your passive aggressive remarks against Straub-Huillet and those who love their films. |
| "hi nose... q pensara ella." - Misael Saavedra | |
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| Eliecer | Mar 30 2015, 03:44 AM Post #5 |
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g legs' homie
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It's embarrassing to even have to say this. Bresson or Mizoguchi have legions of fans and are very safely established critically. Your vendetta (admittedly pointless since we are on an internet forum) against Straub-Huillet, who are trapped in an intellectual ghetto when put into the greater scope of things, reeks of intellectual fascism. I'll admit that my reaction to your "trolling" on Straub-Huillet was pointless, too. Edited by Eliecer, Mar 30 2015, 03:45 AM.
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| "hi nose... q pensara ella." - Misael Saavedra | |
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| serri | Mar 30 2015, 04:02 AM Post #6 |
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karl, it's ok if you haven't noticed this about me, i'm not offended, but if you happen to read a few of my posts you will find that i take the classical meaning of "forum" to heart. just because something i say is prompted by something you say, that does not mean what i have said is directed at you in particular. maybe you, bet never you and you alone. as to keeping things topical, that is a nice idea in some circumstances, which i don't care about for this thread, and anyway i didn't start it. as to personal attacks, blow it out your ass.
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| bure420 | Mar 30 2015, 04:15 AM Post #7 |
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deadpan darling
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this is a khamraev thread. shut the hell up about straub-huillet and accusing someone of "intellectual fascism" for hating on some films you like. my god, get the fuck over yourself |
![]() sad_satellites on letterboxd | ordinaryeternalmachinery on tumblr | |
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| Eliecer | Mar 30 2015, 04:21 AM Post #8 |
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g legs' homie
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Get over myself? I was referring to the films. But okay dawg, I hope you listen to your own advice.
Edited by Eliecer, Mar 30 2015, 04:22 AM.
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| "hi nose... q pensara ella." - Misael Saavedra | |
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| Karl | Mar 30 2015, 10:40 AM Post #9 |
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troubadour
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For the Cani... On "Hugh Selwyn Mauberley": The initial idea to change my name here on the forum came from your mentioning, two weeks gone, the missives I exchanged with Mr. Pound, currently busy cooking away in the Underworld, whom I, due to my insulting remarks about Straubhuillet, was surely to soon join. I applied for the name change at the same time and had completely forgotten about it, so was as surprised as anyone to wake up this morning and find myself "Hugh Selwyn Mauberley" rather than comfortably Karl so long after the joke - not all that funny to begin with, I admit - had gone stale. Honestly I do not enjoy Ezra Pound's poetry, neither Mauberleys nor Cantos, save some of the "translations" from the Chinese. Though I briefly considered the idea, I decided that changing my name here to "Li Po" (or, worse, "Rihaku") would be far too recondite a reference to my correspondent from Hades. So "Hugh" it is. Moderators reading this may feel free to return me to Karldom. On Being a Bore over the Straubs: You are absolutely right, Sport. I've even begun to bore myself. And I cannot deny that, as you say, there is an aspect of "trolling" in the constant harping on the inadequacies of the pair: I do it because I know it irritates you and that the mere mention of Straubhuillet on my part will send you swooping down with righteous indignation on my ignorant presumptuousness. Works every time, fish, barrel. Because I do not like you. But this is... immature of me, and I ought find more adult, more constructive kinds of fun. I shan't ever say anything derogatory about the Straubhuillets ever again after this. Promise. On Fascism: I can't but be tickled seeing that like your idols you constantly refer to people you disagree with as "fascists" (Pound, Rossellini and Fassbinder, and I - all in the same boat!). However, as the interviewer suggests to Straub, you may want to consider being less free with that word. On Walsh's Ignorance and Mine: The problem with telling someone they ought only "dismiss something from an informed opinion" is simply this: said someone, with her or his strongly negative reaction to something, is disinclined to delve into analysis of it. May sound like a noble and honest pursuit to the noble and honest soul, but the world is vast and there are only so many tasks one can devote one's time and attention to. I'm sure Tag Gallagher and that other feller wrote fascinating studies of the Straubhuillet, but who wants to pore over texts devoted to what they disdain? Ammunition to win some trite argument on a film forum? I'll pass. The two films I've tried and the two interviews I've read tell me all I need to know about Straub and Huillet. And I disagree that by their "legions of fans" and by being "very safely established critically" Bresson and Mizoguchi are magically exempt from opprobrium - both made weak films, and most film critics aren't worth much. And Justin Beiber has legions of fans. No, I prefer to try to better understand and appreciate movies I enjoy. Like those of Ali Khamraev. On Ali Khamraev: WHITE, WHITE STORKS is, in my unanalytical opinion, really, really good. Have also enjoyed I REMEMBER YOU (as well as the director's comments about the film posted above) and THE SEVENTH BULLET. Let us return to Ali. Edited by Karl, Mar 30 2015, 11:40 AM.
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| Crusades are gone out of fashion for the moment and the only warfare at present worthy of the name is the bloodless crusade against fools. - Norman Douglas | |
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| Deleted User | Mar 30 2015, 12:08 PM Post #10 |
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Deleted User
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![]() ...too bad karl doesn't seem the type to shut his mouth for very long (or at all). |
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| serri | Mar 30 2015, 12:43 PM Post #11 |
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| M Penalosa | Mar 30 2015, 01:26 PM Post #12 |
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El Jefe
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^ Why can't peasants memorize their goddamn lines? |
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Letterboxd Profile My Blog | |
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| greg x | Mar 30 2015, 01:43 PM Post #13 |
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g legs' wife's lover
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A pity really as there certainly could be a useful discussion on Straub Huilet, their films and their approach to movie making that takes into account their purposeful, let's say difficulty, that need't be either a exchange of gainsaying over taste nor a more bitter exchange of accusations over each other. Oh well, that's forum life I guess. |
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| James• | Mar 30 2015, 10:50 PM Post #14 |
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the good shit repper
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that's such a relief, Karl. I'm glad to know those denigrating comments about Satyajit Ray from the 1972 thread were earnest rather than condescending and sarcastic. Edited by James•, Mar 30 2015, 10:51 PM.
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| lttrbxd • tumblr • sound • sound (alt) | |
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| Eliecer | Mar 31 2015, 01:47 AM Post #15 |
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g legs' homie
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Shit. I'm sorry you don't like me, Karl. I'm going to try and like you in the future because that is how little this exchange means to me now. |
| "hi nose... q pensara ella." - Misael Saavedra | |
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| serri | Mar 31 2015, 02:05 AM Post #16 |
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reported for being annoying, mods please delete this hastily |
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| Brotherdeacon | Mar 31 2015, 08:41 AM Post #17 |
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It conjures willy-nilly
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Mods, if you delete this thread, please see to it that the links on Ali Khamraev are still made available. They're useful to everyone. Also the note that many of Khamraev's films are available on YouTube with English subs. That's essentially what these director threads are able to do, increase visibility of the unknown and rare; expose pertinent information on the better known or canonical as well. Thanks. |
| “Somebody has to do something, and it’s just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us. “ | |
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| Karl | Mar 31 2015, 02:19 PM Post #18 |
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troubadour
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THE SEVENTH BULLET (1973). One of Khamraev's popular "Easterns," co-written by Andrei Konchalovsky. ![]() [ ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() actress Dilorom Kambarova appears in three of Khamraev's films: this, TRIPTYCH, and MAN FOLLOWS BIRDS. I have a crush on her. ![]()
Edited by Karl, Mar 31 2015, 04:10 PM.
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| Crusades are gone out of fashion for the moment and the only warfare at present worthy of the name is the bloodless crusade against fools. - Norman Douglas | |
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| Karl | Mar 31 2015, 02:29 PM Post #19 |
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troubadour
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TRIPTYCH (1981) I just saw tonight. Khamraev's most beautiful film: Here's Dilorom again, eight years later. Still cute. Central Asian women, oh my: ![]() Anyone who'd bothered to read the David Walsh link at the start of the thread rather than leap to attack my brief aside about certain filmmakers who aren't Ali Khamraev (few of you, I'd wager) will know that Khamraev and Tarkovsky were close. In his diaries Tarkovsky mentions that he was writing a script for Ali, an "Eastern" if I'm not mistaken - which would have been a mighty interesting thing to see. Here's Khamraev's "Tarkovsky" shot: ![]() and some other stills from the film: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Edited by Karl, Mar 31 2015, 11:53 PM.
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| Crusades are gone out of fashion for the moment and the only warfare at present worthy of the name is the bloodless crusade against fools. - Norman Douglas | |
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| Karl | Mar 31 2015, 02:34 PM Post #20 |
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troubadour
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The same actress in the last shot appears again in Khamraev's I REMEMBER YOU (1985). Until I'd read the Walsh article I wasn't aware of how autobiographical the film was:![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
Edited by Karl, Mar 31 2015, 02:34 PM.
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| Crusades are gone out of fashion for the moment and the only warfare at present worthy of the name is the bloodless crusade against fools. - Norman Douglas | |
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| Karl | Mar 31 2015, 02:39 PM Post #21 |
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troubadour
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Walsh thinks I REMEMBER YOU Khamraev's masterpiece, but WHITE, WHITE STORKS remains my favorite by a notch or two. This is probably the most obvious example of what Walsh refers to as Khamraev's fight against social backwardness: the unhappily married woman who defies the entire community to be with the feller (a defender of the poor and downtrodden, and an outsider) she loves.![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() As Brother Deacon mentions, all these films (along with THE BODYGUARD, which I haven't yet seen) are available subbed on Youtube. The version of WHITE, WHITE STORKS on KG, which I done the subtitles for, is slightly different than the Youtube version and about 5 minutes shorter. Edited by Karl, Mar 31 2015, 02:41 PM.
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| Crusades are gone out of fashion for the moment and the only warfare at present worthy of the name is the bloodless crusade against fools. - Norman Douglas | |
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| Karl | Apr 8 2015, 11:07 AM Post #22 |
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troubadour
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MAN FOLLOWS BIRDS, for better or worse, is Khamraev's Tarkovskian Parajanov film - there's even a shot of river weeds gently swaying in the water. Unfortunately he strains a little too hard for "poetry" here, and can lay it on pretty thick. Yet it has its beauties:![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() and Dilorom once more:
Edited by Karl, Apr 8 2015, 11:11 AM.
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| Crusades are gone out of fashion for the moment and the only warfare at present worthy of the name is the bloodless crusade against fools. - Norman Douglas | |
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