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2015 GC:G40 R4 Persuasion Vs Ticket of No Return
Topic Started: Aug 18 2015, 02:01 AM (1,512 Views)
javierquintero
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Gifts must affect the receiver to the point of shock. - Walter Benjamin
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
SCFZ GENRE CUP 2015

SINGLE ELIMINATION - FOURTH ROUND


Match 040



On this thread voting will be on

D1 Vs C2
WOMEN SLUMMING WITH BAD BOYS (M_Penalosa)
Persuasion (UK, USA, France, 1995) Roger Michell

Vs

BEARDED LADIES, FEMININE MOUSTACHE, HIRSUTISM (Jirinvk)
Ticket of No Return (Bildnis einer Trinkerin. Aller jamais retour, West Germany, 1979) Ulrike Ottinger

C1 Vs D2


Persuasion (UK, USA, France, 1995) Roger Michell
Manager: M_Penalosa
Genre: WOMEN SLUMMING WITH BAD BOYS

Vs

Ticket of No Return (Bildnis einer Trinkerin. Aller jamais retour, West Germany, 1979) Ulrike Ottinger
Manager: Jirinvk
Genre: BEARDED LADIES, FEMININE MOUSTACHE, HIRSUTISM


Participants will have seven days to issue their votes. Therefore, this match will end on Monday August 24th at 9:00 pm (GMT -5, Bogotá, Lima *If you are not sure about time please check my local time going to my profile information

After the voting period is over, the votes will be counted and the results published.

Each user can vote on any match as long as s/he has watched both films paired against each other. Please cast your vote using the titles of both films in the following manner:


PERSUASION – 1 or 0
TICKET OF NO RETURN – 0 or 1


And kindly BOLD your selection, if possible.

Managers are not allowed to vote on matches their own directors participate in, so M_Penalosa — manager for Persuasion and Jirinvk– manager for Ticket of No Return , cannot vote in this match.

REMEMBER: This is a single-elimination round, so only winners will pass to next round.
In case of ties the winners would be defined by previous history of "total votes" (votes-for minus votes-against), so we will always have into account the number of votes from previous rounds.

If you have yet to see either film and still don’t have access to them, please send me a pm so I can assist you locating the the films to view.

VOTERS ARE REQUESTED TO POST THEIR THOUGHTS ON THE COMPETING FILMS ALONG WITH THEIR VOTE. THANK YOU.
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rischka
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nazi trumps fuck off!!
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PERSUASION – 0
TICKET OF NO RETURN – 1

i love persuasion but the ottinger film blew me away

Posted Image

a woman tries to break society's cage. ottinger has been called the female fassbinder and i will say i haven't seen such gorgeous images since the bitter tears of petra von kant.
Edited by rischka, Aug 18 2015, 02:53 AM.
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mesnalty
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g legs' flame
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PERSUASION – 1
TICKET OF NO RETURN – 0

Persuasion is maybe the realest costume drama ever made, and certainly the best Austen adaptation I've seen. You can really feel the grime.

Ticket of No Return is sartorially awesome, but I couldn't really connect with it. Loved those three women though, especially the statistics-quoting one.
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XxXApathy420XxX
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The Least Reputable Cinephile
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PERSUASION – 0
TICKET OF NO RETURN – 1

Ticket of No Return is worth watching just for those awesome outfits.
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john ryan
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[ *  * ]
PERSUASION – 1
TICKET OF NO RETURN – 0

I wonder if members of Persuasion's "strong lobby" (minus Jerry) will show up to vote at some point over the next few days.
My Letterboxd
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tuggingonmoustaches
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g legs' sweetheart
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TIED 2 - 2
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brian d
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persuasion – 0
ticket of no return – 1
I will talk breathlessly about Spanish and Portuguese cinema, João César Monteiro, Ritwik Ghatak, and Jacques Rivette, and hardly ever about anything else.
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Gylfi
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g legs' no. 1 fan
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PERSUASION – 1
TICKET OF NO RETURN – 0
Letterboxd
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Brotherdeacon
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It conjures willy-nilly
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PERSUASION – 1
TICKET OF NO RETURN – 0

I was invigorated by both films and have passed back and forth on which one I thought best. They're very different beasts really, which doesn't make it any easier. And so I tried to consider which film would Jane Austen chose had seen still been alive today? Also what ideas Ulrike Ottinger may have concerning Jane Austen's body of work, and Persuasion in particular? As a novel? As a film by Roger Mitchell in a period piece framework? These questions led me nowhere.

I can't pretend to understand much of Ulrike Ottinger's Ticket of No Return, a transgressive pageant of gender excess and quite possibly philosophical umbrage. It's a film which uniquely seems to rely quixotically on her flagranté collaboration with Tabea Blumenschein as post-mod silent film star and costume maven nonpareil. Both films are certainly enjoyable, but at the end of the day Persuasion and Jane Austen's intelligence and great talents as an author and protean feminist story-teller won the day. That, and a wonderful personal memory which occurred at Lyme Regis some years ago. Loudly breaking glass and bar room china in 1979 Berlin among the carousing of West German artists and transgender personalities of the period, or breaking social and gender restraints in 1816 among a rabidly unfriendly cultural paradigm of misogyny in all economic classes even among women themselves, I must defer to the humanitarian magnetism of the latter.

Of course I should be speaking of the film and not the source material, but Roger Mitchell's Persuasion seems content to follow devotedly to Miss Austen's letter and law, using her original strengths as a bulwark in his modern production; but which then leaves me conflicted in leaning away from Ulrike Ottinger's extravagance and audacity, a visual language I very much admire. Finally I suppose I'm voting for Persuasion and the world of language. And though lensed, cut, scored, acted and assembled in historical recreation, Mitchell's Persuasion (1995) leans heavily on the modern social liberal mores almost 200 years after Jane Austen helped reconstruct drawing room cages into a feminist-informed world of possibility and empowerment, an actuality which still gleans aid from her ferocious abilities and subtlest uses of those abilities to gain her (and our) advantage.

Edited by Brotherdeacon, Aug 24 2015, 06:50 AM.
“Somebody has to do something, and it’s just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us. “
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tuggingonmoustaches
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g legs' sweetheart
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PERSUASION 4 - 3

Less than 15 hours to go.
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jiricine_nvkino
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xoxoxoxox
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c'mon anti-voters, don't you wanna see this (below) in next round? think twice! :))))

Posted Image
Edited by jiricine_nvkino, Aug 24 2015, 12:28 PM.
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wba
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The Merciless
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^ Wow! :wub:
To please the majority is the requirement of the Planet Cinema. As far as I'm concerned, I don't make a concession to viewers, these victims of life, who think that a film is made only for their enjoyment, and who know nothing about their own existence.

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DT.
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Let them eat Prozac
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Persuasion made me want to read the book, which is both a good and bad thing about it as an adaptation. But it does seem to be one of the best Austen films out there, exquisitely capturing the delicacy and gracefulness of her writing.

Like the synopsis said, Ticket of No Return was 'sartorially resplendent', but I didn’t get much out of it beyond that. It was definitely more compelling than Ottinger’s segment in Seven Women, Seven Sins, but was still ostentatious in much the same way.

PERSUASION – 1
TICKET OF NO RETURN – 0
Edited by DT., Aug 24 2015, 02:43 PM.
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Lencho of the Apes
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Let's go do some crimes
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Hey, jiri -- did you know Max Linder made a one-reeler in 1909 called "Amoureux de la femme à barbe"/"In Love With The Bearded Lady"? Apparently on yt.

Posted Image
Edited by Lencho of the Apes, Aug 24 2015, 04:51 PM.
"The four cardinal points of the compass? In reality, there are only three: North and South."
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jiricine_nvkino
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xoxoxoxox
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i knew this film exists, but didn't watch it before... thx!!! for letting me know it's on yt

there is one more with max from 1907 (oldest entry to the genre i could spot) called "Stuck Lips" which i still intend to play in "grande finale" of this cup (tho i must admit, i am starting to get some serious doubts, if cup's final will be this gorgeous :))

Edited by jiricine_nvkino, Aug 25 2015, 08:48 PM.
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Eliecer
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g legs' homie
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PERSUASION – 0
TICKET OF NO RETURN – 1

What can I say? Persuasion is one of my favorite films but I appreciate high fashion and general dandiness too much to vote against Ticket of No Return. Thanks to jirinvk for sharing. I'll definitely watch this film with my next supermodel girlfriend.
Edited by Eliecer, Aug 25 2015, 01:14 AM.
"hi nose... q pensara ella." - Misael Saavedra
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javierquintero
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Gifts must affect the receiver to the point of shock. - Walter Benjamin
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
PERSUASION – 0
TICKET OF NO RETURN – 1

Same for me. Persuasion was delightful (especially the performances) and general mood, whereas Ticket of No Return had more audiovisual snacks and surreal mysteries.
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wba
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The Merciless
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Two films about determined women trying to do their best to ruin their lives, one comes in the guise of drama, the other one clothed as comedy. And both are also about the world around them being utterly oblivious to their desires, hopes and feelings, failing to grasp the importance of every individual and their individualism in the face of an encompasing societal construct. Both are about escape, fixations, and to a certain extent obsessions, and about finding a way to realize the desires of their female protagonists. I could go on and on here, but instead of an essay, I'll just state that once again the German film takes the cake for me (oh, those Germans!).

I'm not a fan of Jane Austen movies, as I was never really able to enter into the mindset of stories of class and manners, and the tragic-comic "one true love" kind of things, and I'm not a fan of the too obvious obviousness of storytelling they generally try to delight in, as the people and their superficial talk and all the "cleverness" don't seem very clever to me but in the end simply tend to bore me. Though Roger Michell's Persuasion appears to be one of the better 'Austen'-movies, maybe even the best I have seen, it was still too heavy-handed for my tastes. It retains all the caricatures of people I've come to expect from these kind of films, lots of pomp and pathos and little regard for the delicacies of human interactions. But I guess, when we know where things are going and how they will unfold, it's the little variations and details that matter. I liked the fact that we were presented with two young people who were fortunate to get a second chance at their love, and though they were pretty stubborn and self-centered were granted a lucky escape. And I always feel that all the coincidences, chance encounters, twists and turns in these films have a wonderful pulpy feel to them. But somehow the filmmakers (at least the ones I've encountered) never quite manage to use that in a fun or economic way, and instead try to treat their trivialities like grand opera. Thus there always remains a somewhat sour (after)taste in my mouth, like watching people with sticks up their asses trying to dance: it looks a bit desperate, and in the end seems too stiff to be much fun. Well, I guess I'll stop here, cause I did like this film after all, even if I will probably never be the desired audience for these kind of tearjerkers.

Bildnis einer Trinkerin was my first film by Ulrike Ottinger. I've always wanted to see her films, and have missed numerous chances to watch them at the cinema. Somehow the opportunities to encounter them have always slipped through my fingers, so this one was finally a chance to grasp one and not let go. It's a very funny film, and though I expected Ottinger to do a lot of absurd stuff from reading about her work, I didn't know she went for Tati-ways of slapstick. The film is very German, and of course it has to take place in Berlin and it feels like a kind of alternate anti-Achternbusch movie made by a kindred spirit. The colors are quite beautiful, and I adored the make-up and costumes of Tabea Blumenschein. An exemplary feminist work in my opinion, it also goes way beyond that and explores deeply universal human feelings. I could very much identify with Blumenschein's character who is sick of all the stuff going on around her, and simply wants to drink, drink, drink. To forget, to escape, to maybe meet (or even better: simply imagine) a kind soul who doesn't want anything from her. Who doesn't see something in her, need something from her, project something onto her, impose something onto her, extract something out of her, or whatever else might be the game of choice. And it was really a wonderful idea to frame the older blond alcoholic as her alter ego, displaying the future she is longing for. Oh, to be ugly, to be forgotten, to be needy and greedy, violent and spiteful, angry and resentful. Sometimes only art can fulfill specific (and temporary) desires. In life, we simply die and fade away. So why not choose a fate for ourselves? Why not transcend the world of art to arrive at art itself? Despite the wondrous and hopeful wish-fullfilling dream-sequences that also punctuate the film, for me it's in a way a nihilist work par excellence, honest and with only a hint of despair, thus it cannot but get my vote in this match. And I also love those kind of films (Takashi Miikes Big Bang Love, Juvenile A and Kubrick's Barry Lyndon come to mind) where the narration surrounding the protagonist(s) and investigating their cinematic tale, fails to grasp anything significant, remaining triumphantly clueless as the viewer gets served all the goods. Now I only hope to see more Ottinger in the near future - though still preferably at the cinema.

PERSUASION – 0
TICKET OF NO RETURN – 1
Edited by wba, Aug 25 2015, 02:05 AM.
To please the majority is the requirement of the Planet Cinema. As far as I'm concerned, I don't make a concession to viewers, these victims of life, who think that a film is made only for their enjoyment, and who know nothing about their own existence.

letterboxd * tumblr * website

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javierquintero
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Gifts must affect the receiver to the point of shock. - Walter Benjamin
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VOTING IS CLOSED

FINAL RESULT

PERSUASION – 5
TICKET OF NO RETURN – 6



The winner is the genre BEARDED LADIES, FEMININE MOUSTACHE, HIRSUTISM managed by Jirinvk

Thanks a lot to M_Penalosa for bringing us Persuasion as part of WOMEN SLUMMING WITH BAD BOYS
Edited by javierquintero, Aug 25 2015, 02:14 AM.
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wba
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The Merciless
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javierquintero
Aug 25 2015, 02:07 AM

Thanks a lot to M_Penalosa for bringing us Yaadon Ki Baarat as part of WOMEN SLUMMING WITH BAD BOYS
Not quite. :sly:
To please the majority is the requirement of the Planet Cinema. As far as I'm concerned, I don't make a concession to viewers, these victims of life, who think that a film is made only for their enjoyment, and who know nothing about their own existence.

letterboxd * tumblr * website

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Eliecer
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g legs' homie
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Now I feel like Maradona in the world cup of 1994. :-/
"hi nose... q pensara ella." - Misael Saavedra
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javierquintero
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Gifts must affect the receiver to the point of shock. - Walter Benjamin
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WBA
Aug 25 2015, 02:09 AM
javierquintero
Aug 25 2015, 02:07 AM

Thanks a lot to M_Penalosa for bringing us Yaadon Ki Baarat as part of WOMEN SLUMMING WITH BAD BOYS
Not quite. :sly:
Oops, fixed :$
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M Penalosa
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El Jefe
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javierquintero
Aug 25 2015, 02:07 AM
Thanks a lot to M_Penalosa for bringing us Persuasion as part of WOMEN SLUMMING WITH BAD BOYS
I just hope I was able to warn the women to stay way from the bad boys and remind the bad boys how fucking easy it is!
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XxXApathy420XxX
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The Least Reputable Cinephile
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Yay time for a drink to celebrate

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Mauries
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g legs' sweetheart
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:toast: :booze:

Managed to watch TONR in time, but I was too tired for Persuasion last night :/.
Didn't expect TONR to win before I went to sleep (it was two votes behind then), but I'm happy with the result - great film! Thanks also for the intro Jiri.
The Economy stinks, bees are dying, and movies are pretty much all sequels now
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jiricine_nvkino
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xoxoxoxox
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when i went to sleep i expected TONR will loose for sure

so i prepared few "hate" shouts to post next day :))

for example:

OUT OF PROTEST TO THE RESULTS I'M GOING TO SHAVE MYSELF!
Posted Image

or:

Posted Image

etc. etc. etc.

but Eliecer, Javier and WBA thwarted my plans, so i was ultimately a bit disappointed i schemed all those posts in vain

so thanks a lot Mauries for your words, cuz now i feel i have got the opportunity to share some of those "hate" shouts anyway :))
(only now i feel finally fully happy about the hairy victory)

Edited by jiricine_nvkino, Aug 25 2015, 11:03 PM.
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rischka
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nazi trumps fuck off!!
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ha i thought about that last night too, since we've moved back the end of matches, you'd be asleep and miss the result. so a nice surprise for you :hurray: :clap:
Edited by rischka, Aug 25 2015, 11:19 PM.
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jiricine_nvkino
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xoxoxoxox
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which reminds me about this post by John!!!

Quote:
 
I wonder if members of Persuasion's "strong lobby" (minus Jerry) will show up to vote at some point over the next few days.

are Eliecer, Javier and WBA members of Jerry's "strong lobby" who try to puzzle all of us innocent members of this forum?

Edited by jiricine_nvkino, Aug 25 2015, 11:20 PM.
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Eliecer
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g legs' homie
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Yeah I'm from #teamPersuasion, but I voted as Josef von Sternberg would have in my place.
"hi nose... q pensara ella." - Misael Saavedra
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Brotherdeacon
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It conjures willy-nilly
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Though I voted for Persuasion and noted why, I'm happy about Ulrike's mash-up winning. It reflects a German/Austrian art world of a bygone era. I believe there was a rubric named German Neo Expressionists about that time on canvas--her colors, motion and excess almost act as a moving neo-expressionist something or other (mit Brandy). Bravo.
Edited by Brotherdeacon, Aug 26 2015, 06:53 AM.
“Somebody has to do something, and it’s just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us. “
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