Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to the Super Champion Film Zone. We hope your visit is dope.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, creating a personal blog, feeding contents, filling the database, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
USSR vs. Japan
Topic Started: Sep 11 2017, 03:09 PM (1,355 Views)
bure420
Member Avatar
deadpan darling
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
USSR: The Contest (Bulat Mansurov, 1964) [musical]

Japan: The Wolves (Hideo Gosha, 1971) [yakuza]

Vote for either xUSSR or xJapan (italicization unnecessary).

The deadline for voting is 12:00 AM CST on Monday, September 25.

If you need the link or password for the blog, please let me know.

Final score: Japan 8, USSR 4.
Edited by bure420, Sep 25 2017, 04:54 AM.
Posted Image

sad_satellites on letterboxd | ordinaryeternalmachinery on tumblr
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
rischka
Member Avatar
nazi trumps fuck off!!
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
yeah yakuza and one i haven't seen :barmy: and a soviet musical! :O
Edited by rischka, Sep 11 2017, 09:00 PM.
"covfefe" -- dj cheeto

letterboxd + tumblr + twitter





Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
DT.
Member Avatar
Let them eat Prozac
[ *  *  * ]
Shouldn't these matches finish a day later to make up for lost time?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
meg

[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
yes
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
bure420
Member Avatar
deadpan darling
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Good call. I extended both matches by one day.
Posted Image

sad_satellites on letterboxd | ordinaryeternalmachinery on tumblr
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
rischka
Member Avatar
nazi trumps fuck off!!
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
btw peoples don't forget filemail is only good for 5 days so download the gosha because it's 2.2gbs and won't fit on wetransfer :sly: watching beautiful turkmenistan now :clap:
Edited by rischka, Sep 12 2017, 12:06 AM.
"covfefe" -- dj cheeto

letterboxd + tumblr + twitter





Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Karl
Member Avatar
troubadour
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
A note on our Turkmeni musical, which is not a musical in the Singin' in the Rain sense of folk just bursting into song and dance (though my other contender for this category, Giorgi Shengelaya's glorious Georgian musical Melodies of the Verijsky Quarter, is), but it's about musicians and there's got a whole lotta dutar playing going on, which will certainly please those of you who are fond of this instrument:



In the 1960s, Mansurov provided a model of Central Asian cinematography that was quickly and effectively repeated by his contemporaries to establish a canon of Central Asian cinema, which would become known as the "golden age’"of the region’s cinematic history. Local identity, local landscape, local actors and local themes confronted the Soviet tradition of universalism and modernity directed from the "commanding heights" of Moscow. Mansurov rendered a Central Asian view of humanity that transcended socialist paradigms and created an important precedent in Central Asian culture as it drifted from Moscow’s control.

...

According to Khodjakuli Narliev, Mansurov’s success lay in his ability to combine philosophy with the visual richness of realism:

"1963, the year of the production of the film The Contest, is at the same time the year of renaissance for Turkmen cinema. This film was our message to the rest of the Soviet Union as to the rest of the world."

But the transformation was not limited to Turkmenistan: "The Contest represented something totally new for the cinema in Central Asia as a whole," Narliev continued. After its initial screening, Chingiz Aitmatov wrote about Mansurov’s film:

"I do not know of a similar work in the cinema of Central Asia. This one is on the level of the masterpieces of world art. After such a film, many will have to revise their artistic positions with the cinema, and with this success, one cannot work as before; the criteria have moved to a higher level."

More recently, Davlat Khudonazarov stated: "Bulat Mansurov’s The Contest played for us the same part as that of Rome, Open City of Rossellini for European cinema."



- from CINEMA IN CENTRAL ASIA, Edited by Michael Rouland, Gulnara Abikeyeva, Birgit Beumers, which devotes a whole chapter to the film.
Edited by Karl, Sep 12 2017, 12:27 AM.
Crusades are gone out of fashion for the moment and the only warfare at present worthy of the name is the bloodless crusade against fools. - Norman Douglas
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
rischka
Member Avatar
nazi trumps fuck off!!
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
thanks for the notes karl! loving it so far <heart>
"covfefe" -- dj cheeto

letterboxd + tumblr + twitter





Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Holymanm
Member Avatar
moats n groats
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
rischka
Sep 12 2017, 12:06 AM
btw peoples don't forget filemail is only good for 5 days so download the gosha because it's 2.2gbs and won't fit on wetransfer :sly: watching beautiful turkmenistan now :clap:
it's for 7 days i think! but i will re-upload mine before it expires so it'll be available the whole match-up, don't worry ^_^

ALSO i have a super nice 7 GB HD rip that i uploaded too! (and that wasn't added to the Tumblr site but will be soon.) PM me if anyone is interested! (it's super nice!!!)
Edited by Holymanm, Sep 12 2017, 12:36 AM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
rischka
Member Avatar
nazi trumps fuck off!!
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]

Sent: 1 day 3 hours 14 minutes ago
Expires in: 5 days 20 hours 45 minutes

ok i guess you're right then
"covfefe" -- dj cheeto

letterboxd + tumblr + twitter





Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Holymanm
Member Avatar
moats n groats
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
and here's what i just wrote when i watched mine recently, for posterity:




The Wolves (Hideo Gosha, 1971)

Posted Image

four movies in one! another gosha-nakadai existential samurai classic; a 'gritty' yakuza flick that puts all that western gangster crap to shame; a tense, heart-pounding 'murder thriller'*; and... a 2 hour long expressionist painting on screen. marvellous! outstanding! my 'gosha renaissance' continues in splendid form... 'the rembrandt of samurai flicks' strikes again.
4.5/5
* i coined this term myself




alternate review:

three greatest actors in history:

1. nakadai
2-3. nakadai's eyes - so somber... solemn... disconsolate... :blackheart: :blackheart:
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
bure420
Member Avatar
deadpan darling
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
The final set of match-ups in the Genre Round looks like it'll be my favorite. WoaW is amazing because it's Fassbinder of course, and the other 3 I've not seen and all look fantastic.
Posted Image

sad_satellites on letterboxd | ordinaryeternalmachinery on tumblr
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Karl
Member Avatar
troubadour
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Just saw it, and The Wolves is the first film since this thing started I wouldn't mind losing to. The Newfie comedy I lasted about 20 mins into before deciding to save myself further suffering and am astonished that anyone could think it better to my bittersweet Georgian drinking movie; the English film was one of these minimalist war films proudly without any context - character backstories, details of the conflict, etc - with A, B, Y and Z roaming through a sinister landscape waiting to kill or be killed, but since they're paper puppets, who cares? Seemed a pointless exercise to me, I yawned my way through most of it, and it somehow managed a tie with Nikita Mikhalkov's exquisite character study. Oh well!

The Wolves isn't the best film of its kind of seen, or even my favorite Gosha Hideo film - Goyokin is pretty hard to top - but if it bests my nomad musical at least I won't think it incredible (at least it won't be voted down by anyone because they're mad at Putin, it being a Turkmen film and all: but perhaps someone here's mad at Gurbanguly Berdimuhamedow?).

Not that I think Wolves ought to beat my dueling dutarists: it isn't quite that good.

----------------------------



By the way, the copy of Wolves on the blog has some weird glitches through the first 20 mins, and the subs even come unstuck for awhile, but it eventually settles down. Or am I the only one had this problem?
Edited by Karl, Sep 14 2017, 04:50 PM.
Crusades are gone out of fashion for the moment and the only warfare at present worthy of the name is the bloodless crusade against fools. - Norman Douglas
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Holymanm
Member Avatar
moats n groats
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
:toast: I admit, I sold out for this round - I finally stopped just picking my favourite movies, and picked instead something that people might actually like... :shifty: (and I prefer Goyokin too, but no one's seen this one at least)

And yeah, now that you mention it, I do remember the subs for some reason messing up early on and then serendipitously resynching afterward. Very strange. And I forgot about it until you mentioned it; sorry all!

Looking forward to watching the Turkmen competition!
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mario Gaborovic
g legs' wife's lover
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
xUSSR... or more precisely, xTurkmenistan.
Edited by Mario Gaborovic, Sep 17 2017, 05:38 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
rischka
Member Avatar
nazi trumps fuck off!!
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
yeah i'm seeing the jumping too, if you say it resolves itself i guess i can ignore it. pretty great so far

Posted Image

edit: can confirm no issues past the 20 mins mark. and i really like the umbrella assassins :sh:

Posted Image

also the jazzy film noir score :toast:
Edited by rischka, Sep 17 2017, 01:15 AM.
"covfefe" -- dj cheeto

letterboxd + tumblr + twitter





Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Brotherdeacon
Member Avatar
It conjures willy-nilly
[ *  *  * ]
Holymanm, when you "finally stopped just picking my favorite movies," as you say--you began picking mine. Thanks.

Although I enjoyed the Turkmenistan entry--(it's the type of fine regional film I always hope to be exposed to by the Cups, and luckily often have been)--but Gosha's The Wolves is a long time scope favorite for many reasons.

xJapan
Edited by Brotherdeacon, Sep 17 2017, 08:19 AM.
“Somebody has to do something, and it’s just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us. “
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
mesnalty
Member Avatar
g legs' flame
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
xUSSR but this was a tough decision. The Gosha was a great discovery, with its Kobayashi-esque frames and as Holymanm said, Tatsuya Nakadai's eyes. But The Contest is one of those hidden gems that I never would have watched if not for the cup, and the soundtrack is truly beautiful.

btw Mario you may want to edit your post to say "USSR" instead of "Soviet Union" so your vote will get picked up by a search!
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
kanafani
Member Avatar

[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Both movies have their merits, but I was not really sold on either.

I liked the music in The Contest. Lots of parallels with the music from my original neck of the woods. But there's a stiff earnestness tha drags the whole movie down. The turgid voice-over was especially a killer for me. It kept interfering with the flow of the thing. Not the first time I have this reaction to a Soviet movie, probably not the last either.

The Wolves is clearly the work of a formal master. Lots of handsome compositions throughout, superior use of color, and the score fits like a glove. But it's too attached to its ritualistic genre tropes and never transcends them to something larger. I wished there was more emphasis on the inner-workings of these gangs, and on the nexus between organized crime, big-business interests and political power. There's some of that, but not enough. On the whole it was often felt heavy-handed and high-strung, the latter no doubt on purpose. I had previously seen Gosha's three outlaw samurai, which also left me cold. Guess he's just not for me.

xjapan, I guess.
Edited by kanafani, Sep 17 2017, 11:06 PM.
letterboxd
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mario Gaborovic
g legs' wife's lover
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
mesnalty
Sep 17 2017, 01:58 PM
btw Mario you may want to edit your post to say "USSR" instead of "Soviet Union" so your vote will get picked up by a search!
Yes thanks for telling me.

Btw I did lots of changes at TMDB regarding countries that do not exist anymore, since they do not appear at Letterboxd at all (invisible). Anyway that's better because when you want to discover Turkmen cinema, you get all the films that were made even before 1991, which is valid for other countries as well (which is not the case at IMDb where even short films do not appear when you use search engine).

Also kanafani could decipher lots of production houses' credits (and add them there or to IMDB) 'cause we others can't read Arabic.
Edited by Mario Gaborovic, Sep 17 2017, 05:45 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
brian d
Member Avatar

[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
not a bad matchup, but not overly exciting for me either. tatsuya nakadai has a nice face, but the film feels like a bit of a mess. i'm not too much into yakuza or gangsters either. the contest does drag a bit, but it has the good music and the good message.

xussr
I will talk breathlessly about Spanish and Portuguese cinema, João César Monteiro, Ritwik Ghatak, and Jacques Rivette, and hardly ever about anything else.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
rischka
Member Avatar
nazi trumps fuck off!!
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
i really really can't decide; i loved both! D:

but i think i'll go with gosha. hitokiri still my fave though :$

Posted Image

xJapan, i guess
Edited by rischka, Sep 17 2017, 11:21 PM.
"covfefe" -- dj cheeto

letterboxd + tumblr + twitter





Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Holymanm
Member Avatar
moats n groats
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
I think my upload expired; will have it re-upped soon though I hope!

Glad people are not hating it so far!
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
john ryan
Member Avatar

[ *  * ]
xJapan
My Letterboxd
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
meg

[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
torn loved both

xUSSR
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Lencho of the Apes
Member Avatar
Let's go do some crimes
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
The Contest is one I'd describe as a 'nice *little* movie,' and The Wolves was much bigger.

xJapan.
"The four cardinal points of the compass? In reality, there are only three: North and South."
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
DT.
Member Avatar
Let them eat Prozac
[ *  *  * ]
xJapan

At first, The Contest reminded me of Don't Grieve as a cultural snapshot where music was ostensibly the highlight. But in this case, I have to agree with what Lencho wrote - flashes of brilliance, but otherwise, it didn't really sustain my interest.

If anything, Holymamn’s description of The Wolves as ‘a two hour long expressionist painting on screen’ probably underselled it. And I enjoyed how the time period made the film as much a samurai flick as a yakuza one, and curiously subversive either way.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Holymanm
Member Avatar
moats n groats
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
man i'm sitting in the lobby of this hotel here like a chump to buffer The Contest, with a bunch of loud german tourists and crying babies everywhere... it'd better be the best movie of all time, is all i'm saying!

(this hotel would win "The Contest" for worst wi-fi, is all i'm saying)
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Holymanm
Member Avatar
moats n groats
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
DT.
Sep 23 2017, 09:21 AM
And I enjoyed how the time period made the film as much a samurai flick as a yakuza one, and curiously subversive either way.
agreed! it's partly that gosha (& nakadai and co) were totally in the samurai zone, with the type of flicks they'd just been making and all, but i think it's also partly just from 'samurai honour' - and moreover from traditional artistic depictions of this - pervading japanese culture overall. like it's no coincidence that the yakuza appear exactly like the sometimes-corrupt, sometimes-honourable, sometimes-both samurai clans you see in 10,000 samurai movies (especially gosha's own). and yes, saying that japanese society basically inexorably led to the yakuza as a pure reification of it could be slightly subversive !

the movie's a very curious mixture overall - even if the bordering-on-amorphous mixture leads some to see it as just a mess... :booze:

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mario Gaborovic
g legs' wife's lover
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Holymanm
Sep 24 2017, 04:39 PM
man i'm sitting in the lobby of this hotel here like a chump to buffer The Contest, with a bunch of loud german tourists and crying babies everywhere... it'd better be the best movie of all time, is all i'm saying!
Not a proper milieu to watch a film like that, I can assure you.
Edited by Mario Gaborovic, Sep 24 2017, 05:12 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
ZetaBoards - Free Forum Hosting
Create a free forum in seconds.
Learn More · Sign-up Now
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Round 3 - Genre Film · Next Topic »
Add Reply