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'Flawed' Characters
Topic Started: Jan 25 2013, 11:02 AM (486 Views)
bionic4ever
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We've had several threads about whether or not Jaime, Steve and our other beloved characters are simply too perfect. A few years ago, OJFan and Messy thought it might be fun to explore the quirks and 'issues' each character might have, just underneath the surface. They were right. That's what I've been trying to do with Season 5 - take a small characteristic (not necessarily a 'flaw') from each character and expand on it. Rudy's over-dedication to his work, Steve's anger, Jaime's vulnerability (and yet her determination to appear strong) - it's been a fascinating exercise for me so far; I hope you're enjoying it too.
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Bionika
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Yes it's interesting to see their "dark side".

Have you thought about Oscar too?

Bionika

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bionic4ever
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Bionika
Jan 25 2013, 04:24 PM
Yes it's interesting to see their "dark side".

Have you thought about Oscar too?

Bionika

Oscar is harder because there aren't a lot of things about him that could be 'amplified'. Maybe (like Rudy) his dedication to his work?
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Bionika
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bionic4ever
Jan 25 2013, 08:21 PM
Oscar is harder because there aren't a lot of things about him that could be 'amplified'. Maybe (like Rudy) his dedication to his work?
I think that, yes, his workaholism could be utilized.
In your last stories, it has leaded Rudy to two heart attacks; it may lead Oscar to exhaustion, to a burn out and then to car crash (like it has been suggested in episode "Just a matter of time")...or to a burn out, nervous breackdown... ( ;) In this case Mark Conrad should also be careful about workaholism and exhaution because he will have his hands full and would have to juggle with planes between Washington for helping Oscar and California for helping Austin's family...or he should have Oscar come to California for therapy!

Bionika
Edited by Bionika, Jan 26 2013, 04:45 PM.
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Bionika
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In the first two hours movies, Oscar was hard and cold with his employees; he mellowed with SMDM series and has completely melted with Jaime even if he wasn't very kind with Peggy in first episode of "Kill Oscar".

So...could we imagine that he could go back to this part of his character (under external pressure of the Secretary for having results for instance) and became back a "slave driver" and ask too much for a new mother like Jaime or to Rudy (be careful of heart-attack! evildevilpig ) or Russ /Peggy (leading him/her to exhaution and it's consequences according to previous post... evildevilpig )?

Bionika
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bionic4ever
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Oscar's flaw...I've got it! Might take another episode before it becomes obvious...or it might show up soon!
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Bionika
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Let me try to guess before reading chapter 7.
Hmmm. Over worried?

Bionika
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Bionika
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Trying another one : his love for Jaime.

Well, it's not really a flaw but in his position as director of O.S.I, Jaime's boss and also as Steves's friend, it could bring big troubles. Just imagine that in your story "in his hands", Michael couldn't bring back Jaime's recent memory and she doesn't again remember her love for Steve...but remember very well Oscar telling her "I love you"? Then instead of a triangle you'll have a quadrature.

Bionika
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LuvNvrNds
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bionic4ever
Jan 25 2013, 08:21 PM
Bionika
Jan 25 2013, 04:24 PM
Yes it's interesting to see their "dark side".

Have you thought about Oscar too?

Bionika

Oscar is harder because there aren't a lot of things about him that could be 'amplified'. Maybe (like Rudy) his dedication to his work?
I always saw Oscar Goldman as a guy who was chivalrous. I guess the way I always thought about it, he was very genteel in Jaime's presence. I never read any sexual overtones, and even now, as an adult, I just don't see any. I can see in cannon that he came to love Jaime, especially by the series conclusion but I'm not clear that it was romantic love.

I think Lyndsay Wagner and Richard Anderson had a great off-screen relationship and that as an actors, he and Lyndsay had more positive experiences (and time shared together than did Lee Majors and Lyndsay Wagner). So I think the 2 actors became more comfortable with each other, and I think Lyndsay may have brought that out more through her character's interactions with each other (Jaime and Oscar). But I think that was an inherent part of Lyndsay.

I think as time went on, Oscar felt a genuine respect, admiration, and loyalty to both Steve and Jaime. I think he was much more protective and certainly affectionate with Jaime (an arm around her here, or a brief kiss, there). I read these as chivalrous gestures. I interpreted those gestures as Oscar behaving like a very classy guy, like the way my Great-Uncle would treat his favorite younger women colleagues- an arm around, a kiss, opening a door before a lady- I think that's what a polite older man would do in those days. It was the mid-late seventies, and things were not as they are today. Mind you, I don't necessarily call it chauvinistic, but I know that seemed to happen more then in the seventies (some workplace behaviors were less frowned upon), than now. Oscar also was at times fearful for Steve's safety and their relationship seemed congenial, respectful, caring. I think because Steve was a rugged guy and someone who was fiercely independent, Oscar trusted that Steve could really handle himself and had done so for, say 4 years, and Jaime was more of a fledgeling at first, and someone who had been through a lot, I mean, she died and was brought back to life. Who wouldn't want to nurture a young (and I mean capable, too), woman who wasn't a typical agent - and by that I mean someone who was not originally planning a life of fighting crimes).

I think Oscar was torn between his loyalty to his Government and agency and his wishes for his friends and employees safety. I think early on there were glances of Oscar the bureaucrat, who had a job to do. His character evolved and who wouldn't be charmed by both Steve and Jaime? I think though that Oscar's job at the top was very important to him, he had important people he had to play politics with, and I think there were probably missions he sent his bionic friends on that he would rather not have. So what WOULD Oscar Goldman do when forces above him are pressing him to send his best agents (and maybe best friends?), into imminent peril? A guy like Oscar would have to pray whatever he did, he was making the right decision for his country, his position, and his friends- and also be able to live with himself when all is said and done. I think Oscar's flaw (if that's what you would call it) was his divided loyalty. I personally see it as a strength, but maybe it could deal Oscar personal and professional dilemmas and may not ultimately be what was in the country's best interest and Oscar taking a stand on behalf of his friend could even threaten his position (what would the OSI be without Oscar???).

Yikes, that was long winded...

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bionic4ever
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Thank you! That was much-needed and very, very helpful!
Coherent, well thought out...and fascinating!
You ought to try your hand at fanfic.
Edited by bionic4ever, Feb 1 2013, 02:13 AM.
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Bionika
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LuvNvrNds
Jan 31 2013, 06:58 PM
Yikes, that was long winded...

Perhaps long winded but very well done yide

Bionika
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Bionika
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Trying a third one : too trustful?

Bionika
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Bionika
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LuvNvrNds
Jan 31 2013, 06:58 PM
I think he was much more protective and certainly affectionate with Jaime (an arm around her here, or a brief kiss, there). I read these as chivalrous gestures. I interpreted those gestures as Oscar behaving like a very classy guy, like the way my Great-Uncle would treat his favorite younger women colleagues- an arm around, a kiss, opening a door before a lady- I think that's what a polite older man would do in those days.
I agree with your statement except one point.

I feel that a Great-Uncle would kiss his niece only on cheeks. But at least one (in first part of "Welcome Jaime" at tennis court) of Oscar and Jaime kiss is on lips like a Russian kiss. Is this type of kiss also usual in The States -and in 70's - and between a boss and his new employee?

Bionika
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LuvNvrNds
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Bionika
Feb 2 2013, 05:23 PM
LuvNvrNds
Jan 31 2013, 06:58 PM
I think he was much more protective and certainly affectionate with Jaime (an arm around her here, or a brief kiss, there). I read these as chivalrous gestures. I interpreted those gestures as Oscar behaving like a very classy guy, like the way my Great-Uncle would treat his favorite younger women colleagues- an arm around, a kiss, opening a door before a lady- I think that's what a polite older man would do in those days.
I agree with your statement except one point.

I feel that a Great-Uncle would kiss his niece only on cheeks. But at least one (in first part of "Welcome Jaime" at tennis court) of Oscar and Jaime kiss is on lips like a Russian kiss. Is this type of kiss also usual in The States -and in 70's - and between a boss and his new employee?

Bionika
I just re- watched that episode, "Welcome Home Jaime", and studied the part at the tennis court. My view remains unchanged. That is to say, I saw the kiss in question and I would say it was a peck. It is a peck on the lips that lasts a second (I did not actually scan through and count), but to me, the kiss was a friendly gesture allowing the audience to witness the affection and goodwill Oscar felt regarding Jaime. I did not see the kiss as romantic. I think a peck on the mouth in those days in America was within the bounds of acceptable- as long as it was not prolonged into a full longer-lasting kiss, or one involving any tongue. The scene still brings to mind my Great Uncle, the prominent lawyer who was much like Oscar Goldman in age, style, and manner. (He was descended from Russian immigrants, by the way), and like Richard Anderson, was from Longbranch, New Jersey, originally.
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bionic4ever
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Appropriate in this day and age (between boss and employee)? Very questionable. But calling her 'Babe' would fall under the same umbrella, at least in my opinion. Harmless in the 70's...not acceptable behavior in today's world.
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